7Book Upgrade Disaster

[daveeboy]

I've been a proud user of a Series 7 for sometime now and came across your discussion on the personality modules a few months ago. I managed to get one but only recently tried to upgrade my 7. My expectations were high with all your stories of success so imagine my disappointment when my machine failed to boot (screen on but no click and machine doesn't power off) with the new module and then my despair when I put back my original chip and that failed as well. I now need some advice. I have:

A dead 7
Two (probably useless chips)

I am looking at two possible problems:
I screwed up both the chips when handling them although I was careful to ground myself on the radiator several times during the handling of the chips but I wasn't wearing a wrist strap.
Or
There is a problem with my Psion. The reason I say this is that about two years ago my 7 hit a solid floor with some force (won't go into reasons why) and apart from a key and the cover for the CPU coming off it still worked fine (I was amazed). But maybe there was some internal damage and that taking the chip out has broken some damaged contacts.

I also read the thread where the same symptons were possibly due to a problem with the OS.IMG file being fragmented on the CF card. I tried again with a new CF which only contained the OS.IMG file but this did not work either.

I'd appreciate some advice on what to do next....

Can I get the chips checked anywhere? I read a post that POS looked at a netbook for someone but according to their website they do not deal with Series 7 or netbook repairs.

Is the Psion repair service (£170 to start with) worth it as, if I have to pay this plus the cost of new parts, should I be looking at eBay instead for a secondhand machine or even look at getting a new Netbook.

I'll be grateful for any advice.

Dave

[netBookBabe]

Dave

This is just a quick message of support at the moment, having read your woes regarding the 7Book upgrade. I don't know what might be wrong - I'm a netBook owner, so haven't gone through that particular upgrade process, although I have recently added a DIMM module. From what you say, I can't really imagine that it's any mishandling of the chips that caused the problem - it does seem to me more likely to be a hardware failure related to the earlier incident you describe.

I was the one who had problems with a possibly fragmented OS.IMG file - I've done a hard reset in the last few days though, and re-installed just fine from a CF containing only the OS file. You need that file to be in the root directory on the CF, by the way.

Hopefully someone with more experience on this issue will come up with advice.

Julie

[wanman]

Hi Dave,

I have got a working 7book so should be able to offer some help and advice. Problem is that your symptoms do seem a bit severe. Can I first check a few details with you:

1) What was the build of your 7 series. Hopefully, there should have been a white sticker on the 7 personality module. Please can you confirm what was written on this.

2) How did you install/remove the modules. To remove, you gentle move the two metal clips, holding the board in, apart and the module should pop up to about 30-45 degree angle. It then just slides out. To insert is the same but in reverse. Insert the card at 30-45 degrees and when inserted fully, gently push down the front of the board until it clicks into position.

3) I assume you removed all source of power before performing the upgrade. Mains lead, main battery and backup . (OK I know, but always wise to check this was done).

4) Re-insert your 7 module and leave it with the batteries both out for a couple of minutes and then try again. If nothing else, you will need to send it for repair with this module rather than with the netbook module.

By the sounds of it, your machine has had a pretty major failure. I would hope that this has not damaged the netbook personality module as you will find it difficult to find a replacement. If you have and do want the extra features of a netbook, it may be time to seriously weigh up the costs of a repair against a new netbook.

Let us know how you get on.

Regards
Simon

[daveeboy]

Julie / Simon

Thanks for your support and advice. To answer Simon's points:

1) The build is version 751 (with 2031 0039 01) on the label as well

2) I pretty much followed the steps you describe with the modules coming out at around 45 degrees.

3) Yes - I followed the steps described

4) I'll try it again over the weekend and let you know what happens. If all else fails I'll phone the repair centre on Monday to discuss (although I'll claim it just failed one day and omit any reference to the Netbook personality module!)

Thanks again for your advice

Regards

Dave

[diem]

You have an early Series 7, since it was supplied with OS revision 751. It is very possible that your motherboard cannot handle the higher clock frequency that the netBook runs at; this would explain it not booting.

I wouldn't have expected it to kill the machine stone dead though. My advice would be to leave it with the 7 personality module in but both batteries out for a half hour or so, then try putting in the batteries and see what gives.

[daveeboy]

I tried all the tips you gave but to no avail, so I'll phone Psion tomorrow to discuss the symptons and see if they have an idea.

Thanks for you help.

Regards

Dave

[wanman]

Sorry to hear the bad news Dave. Yan is right about some of the earlier boards not being able to support the higher speeds, although one or two users have been successful in their quest for netbook status using a 751 board. I think the likely explanation is that your board did have some form of weakness (either caused by the fall or not). At least if you send it back for repair, you 'should' get a newer board which will support the netbook personality module better.

Fingers crossed that everything is sorted out soon.

Regards
Si

[daveeboy]

Well I was going to phone the Psion repair when I came across a post by ehasbrouck on the following thread:

http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10893

on how he bought a Malaysian Netbook direct for $258 which is less than the cost of sending my 7 for repair (and it includes a 56k Gold Card) I have just ordered one from Sita. In fact I ordered 2 netbooks (not both for me!), Wireless card, 32Mb DIMM and a 64Mb CF card for less than £550.
My view is that this will give me nearly what I wanted from the 7Book (my 'series 7' back + wireless access + faster machine :D - upgradeable OS :( ) all for reasonable cost. This should keep me happy until (if) netbook II comes along.

Only issue now is that I have an expensive albeit attractive paperweight/door stop.
Am I brave enough to try testing my 2 chips in my Mbook and risk another disaster (would they work - has anyone tried?)

Do you know if anyone with an MBook has installed the 32Mb DIMM upgrade. I've looked through all the posts but couldn't find any confirmation of this.

Regards

Dave

[wanman]

Well Dave,

We do love to hear about people experimenting with their Psions. You seem to have taken things to a new level, so good for you. Re your queries, I see no reason why the 32mb DIMM upgrade would not work with the mbook, although before you try, I would make sure you get a copy of the mbook OS (OS.img file) first. Once you remove the batteries, you will need to install it again for the machine to work. You will NOT be able to install the latest Psion OS on the mbook with the personality module supplied with it.

You have a bit of an advantage over other mbook owners, in that you have a netbook personality module. Again I see no reason, why this would not work on your mbook and convert it to a fully fledged netbook status. I understand your concerns and if it is the personality module that is damaged, there is no guarantees that this will not also damage the mbook, although the chances of this being the case, I think are slim. Once your netbook personality module is in, you can atleast then install the latest OS (158).

One thing you can check once up and running is the machine name. Switch on the machine with the netbook personality module and latest OS and press shift+ctrl+Q. Under the Machine Tab, what does the type say? Hopefully netbook, but it may still read something else (if so, please post here).

If you want to change this to netbook (I did, as mine still said 7series, even after the upgrade to 7book), download the attached ZIP and read the .txt file, you will need to reinstall your OS again as you need to perform another hard reset after updating the eprom. PS, you can do this before installing the personality module if you wish (and to save an OS install).

Please let us know how you get on.

Regards

Si

[daveeboy]

Si

Unfortunately I just missed the post and now the guys in KL are into holidays and the Chinese New Year so they won't despatch until next week.

I'll certainly install the DIMM (whilst chained to a radiator and anything else to ensure I'm earthed!). If all goes well then I'll probably try the netBook personality module and maybe even the 7 module as well. That'll certainly cover all bases!

I'l post my experiences back on this thread.

Regards

Dave

[diem]

Just a little point about earthing.

Whilst it is indeed advisable to ensure you are earthed before you touch any PCB, it is worth noting that a PDA is not earthed to the same potential as your radiator (even if the power supply is plugged in, it does not have an earth connection).

Thus I would suggest the following procedure. Hold the rad with one hand, touch the RAM module, then an exposed bit of metal on the 7, then with your hand still touching the 7 (and without rubbing your rubber shoes on the acrylic carpet or similar!) pick up and insert the module.

D'you see what I'm getting at?

[wanman]

What about if you wear rubber surgical gloves? ...... Not that I am saying that Dave might have some of these lying around the house ...... And before you say anything, neither do I.

Si

[daveeboy]

Si/Diem

How about chained to a radiator and wearing rubber gloves whilst rubbing rubber shoes...hey, why wait for the mBook to arrive.

Seriously, I think that I will get one of those boring anti-static straps which won't be half as exciting.

Kepp the advice coming though. It's keeping me going while I'm waiting.

Regards

Dave

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by daveeboy
How about chained to a radiator and wearing rubber gloves whilst rubbing rubber shoes...hey, why wait for the mBook to arrive.What a picture - ROFL!!!

I'll refrain from further comment, but I wonder why the word "incandescent" comes to mind ? :D

Julie

[markdeppe]

Hi Dave

Re: the Nice paper weight. If - and I hope for you it is not the case - you machine is now permenantly out of action, it makes for very good spares which are very pricey, I dare say you will want to keep the battery and screen, I was hoping though I could be the first to put in a request for a few of the Keys - well just the top bit with the letter on - I would be happy to give you the french ones off my netbook they would be replaceing so you still have a full keyboard. Keys I need are the top line with numbers, the "?/" ",<.>" "\~" "'@" and the Shift keys saying shift and Delete key would be nice as mine says "Eff" and the shift is an up arrow, but I can live with that, actually I can live with all of them as it has help me learn to touch type, but for any resale in the future as the netbook II arrives it would probably be helpful :-)

[Braveheart]

Dave,

Your description of your Psion 7's behaviour on insertion of the netbook upgrade chip sounds very like my experience.

You take all batteries out then put in the chip and batteries and firstly there is no "beep" then there is just a white screen that doesn't go off unless (a) the battery expires or (b) you take the batteries out again.

If this sounds familiar it may possibly be the case that you were supplied a "duff" upgrade chip.

Another point in terms of the logic of this if the machine was working beforehand (despite the drop it had when you threw it at the boss that day) then I am not sure why you would think it has become damaged now.

I do not think that the insertion of a chip will damage the machine so whilst it is possible you have damaged your original ROM chip during surgery although I think you would have had to have been trying quite hard.................I should have thought your main machine would be ok if it was indeed working before you performed this surgery.

The solution for the door stop in my view would probably therefore be a replacement rom chip.

However, I note you have opted for the MnetBook and can certainly only recommend that to you.

Go easy on the rubber gloves and for heavens sake stay away from Van Der Graaf generators when you get your new netBook!!

With kindest regards,

Dave

[daveeboy]

Originally posted by netBookBabe
What a picture - ROFL!!!

Julie, I assure you that it'll be done in the best possible taste.
Originally posted by markdeppe
I was hoping though I could be the first to put in a request for a few of the Keys

My 7 has barely been lying in state (well in my desk draw actually) when the vultures start circling. Please let in RIP (Rest in Pieces) for a while longer before plucking at it's flesh (well leather). If it's terminal and there is no other option then I may look at donating it's parts to good causes. But I am hoping to find some way to revive it.
Originally posted by Braveheart
The solution for the door stop in my view would probably therefore be a replacement rom chip.

Yes I expect that this is the answer - my symptons are identical to the ones you describe. Any idea whether you can buy one from Psion and how much ? I assume that it's going to be more then the mBook I've ordered.
Originally posted by Braveheart
Go easy on the rubber gloves and for heavens sake stay away from Van Der Graaf generators when you get your new netBook

These marigolds just cannot last the pace!

And I'm still waiting for them to get back from their hols to get the mBooks despatched....

Regards

Dave

[cshandley]

Just a thought:

Unfortunately many houses are badly wired up (either because of cowboy builders or a DIY owner in it's past), and sometimes this means that the water pipes are *not* earthed, despite the fact that they should be :-(

In which case, touching an (unearthed) raditor is about as much use as touching the carpet!


Also, did you touch *bare metal* of the raditor pipes? You must be touching actual metal, and not paint/etc, since only metal conducts (static) electricty.


So basically, even if your "earthed" yourself, you should still take GREAT care to avoid touching any metal contacts on the Psion module (or any computer component for that matter). It is best to hold it by the edges of the PCB.

---
Chris Handley

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by daveeboy
Julie, I assure you that it'll be done in the best possible taste.Glad to hear it! :D
Any idea whether you can buy one from Psion and how much ?I think it would be a case of sending the machine in to Psion - as far as I know they don't sell individual components. :mad:
These marigolds just cannot last the pace!Tesco have them on special offer at the moment. :p
And I'm still waiting for them to get back from their hols to get the mBooks despatched....See above comment! :D

[Bullpower]

If (when ?) it is safe for the 'vultures' to start circling I'm desparate for a comma ( ' ) and I'm prepared to enter into a bidding race with Markdeppe <see earlier post - what hit his keyboard? A bus?) Mine was hit by my PC keyboard - always suspect it was jealous of the S7 . . . . . :D

My S7 looks so naff with a whole in the keyboard. The little blue rubber thingy beneath the key keeps on falling off/out too!!! :(

When a suitable period of time has past, let me know - my cheque book is ready and waiting:D

Kind regards,

Bullpower

[markdeppe]

I see the Bull have chased the vultures (Fly to NY for 10 days and it all happens ahh) and the sharks :-) I am not in the mood for a "bidding war", I feel your need is greater than mine so if the RIP has passed then I wish you well :-) My keyboard works very well it just has the keys with the wrong symbols on. If I get any others you or anyone else is welcome to my french Keys for free I willingly will donate them, I have the netbooks signature on the donor form. It will live on and bring joy to another it says :-) All the best

[yiati]

I had no problem with the 32MB DIMM expansion with the MBook, and it's worth the money. My combo also came from Sita. If you ever decide to sell the personality module, I would be interested as I also have a Series 7

yiati

[daveeboy]

Well I've finally received my netBook from Malaysia. It's great to have a working machine again :D I also ordered a 32Mb DIMM upgrade chip. This had come loose in the packaging (some bubble wrap!) so I don't have high hopes of this working.
Before I try to insert this I want to check that it a memory upgrade because it is identical to the chip already in the mBook installed on the right hand side. It has a sticker with the following:
2031 0072 01 Version 1.0 27/04/01. Is this a memory upgrade or is it another mBook module they have sent me? (which could be useful!)


my cheque book is ready and waiting
If I decide that my 7 is a non-starter then don't worry about the cheque book, I'll donate the keys to good homes. Alternatively, the company I ordered from (Sita in Malaysia) indicated that they could supply spare parts. I have emailed them to find out if they supply keyboards and how much.

Regards

Dave

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by daveeboy
It has a sticker with the following:
2031 0072 01 Version 1.0 27/04/01. Is this a memory upgrade or is it another mBook module they have sent me?Dave

That sounds very definitely like a personality module, yes. Let me know if you'd like a photo of what the RAM upgrade should look like.

Julie

[daveeboy]

Julie

Recap that I have a 7 module, a netBook personality module from Expansys, a mBook with a module in and what was supposed to be a 32Mb DIMM upgrade chip but is actually another mBook module.

I've just plucked up the courage to have a go at experimenting and the amazing result is that ALL of the above chips work in my mBook, including the 7 module! So, going back to my original problem there must be something wrong with my 7 probably caused by the fall some time ago.

What is interesting now is that I have upgraded my mBook to a fully fledged netBook with the module I originally ordered from Expansys and which started off this whole episode which I'm pleased to say now has a happy conclusion :D. This also means that the mBook OS works on the netBook personality module which is interesting.

I've yet to try upgrading the OS to the latest netBook version but should do this over the weekend.

What I don't have is the 32Mb DIMM upgrade I ordered. I know that you installed it - did it make a big difference to speed and was it worth it ?

This also opens up some possibilities for any Series 7 owners who missed the netBook module but would like to upgrade to an mBook that they can possibly get these modules from Sita in Malaysia (although checking that the mBook module will work on the 7 is one experiment I haven't been able to do!) I'll re-assembe the 7 and try again but I don't hold out much hope.

Regards

Dave

[cshandley]

Dave,

Originally posted by daveeboy
What I don't have is the 32Mb DIMM upgrade I ordered. I know that you installed it - did it make a big difference to speed and was it worth it ?

Dave

The 32Mb DIMM upgrade will make *ZERO* difference to the speed! The Netbook does not use harddisk virtual memory, and therefore does not slow down due to lack of ram.

But you will be able to run Adobe's Java Acrobat viewer, Opera with lots of web pages open, etc, etc.
---
Chris Handley

[Ian Colvin]

Hi,
I too seem to be having problems with my series 7 upgrade, but they may differ from the problem just described. I have switched the personality modules, and the new one is clearly being recognised. I know this because when I reinsert the battery I get a beep and a screen comes up saying 'netbook' and asking me to insert a cf card with an os.img on it. When I do this, it spends thirty seconds loading the image then beeps and comes up with a blank white screen. It then fails to do anything! I can change the screen contrast, and pressing keys, the touch screen or the silkscreen icons causes a click, but no other sign of life can be got out of the machine. A soft reset produces a beep and the white screen again. Can anyone offer any suggestions on this?

My suspicion is that I may have blown something while inserting the board - presumably not the whole board though as the machine is getting as far as recognising that it's a netbook and requesting a cf card and trying to load it. Maybe then it is the chip that holds the loaded system that is blown?

I can test this perhaps by putting the series 7 personality module back in. But before I do I thought I would check with the community in case anyone had knowledge which can help (and which might ensure I don't blow up the 7's personality module as well:( )

Any suggestions much appreciated.
Regards,
Ian

[wanman]

Hi Ian,

Bad news indeed. Can you start off by confirming a few extra details. What was the version of your original 7? On the 7 personality module, should be a white sticker with some details on it. Can you confirm these. Also do you have any PCMCIA cards inserted? If so, best to remove these whilst installing. What version of the netbook OS are you trying to install (OS158?) What size is the CF card you are using to install the OS?

Couple of things to try:

1) Hard reset and reinstall the OS.
2) Try removing all other files from your CF card and install the OS with just the OS.IMG file on the CF card.
3) Do you have the original 7series RAM expansion installed (16mb card in the bay to the left of the personality module. If you do , then could be your problem and must be removed before installing the OS & Personality module as it is not compatible after the upgrade. You will need to remove all batteries, 16mb card and then reinstall your OS.
4) Do you have another CF card you can try loading the OS from?
5) Try the 7 module back again and make sure it still operates as a 7.

Let us know how you get on.

Regards

Si

[netBookBabe]

Ian

I had exactly the same problem as you when attempting to upgrade the OS on my netBook and decided it may be, as Si said, because I had other files on the same CF as the OS.IMG file. I borrowed a friend's disk with the file on it and it loaded just fine.

I have since then put a fresh copy of OS.IMG on the disk that I had the problem with and that worked too! So, probably worth trying again with a new copy of the file, ideally being the only thing on a newly formatted disk, but definitely in the root of the disk.

I do hope the solution can be as simple as this.

Julie

[Ian Colvin]

Hi Si, Julie,
Thanks for the quick response.
The details on the Series 7 personality module are:
2031 0051 01
Version 756 13/06/00

On the netbook personality module:
2031 0037 01
Version 011 09/02/00

I don't have a 7 RAM expansion module fitted.
I am trying to install the latest UK netbook OS from Psion, "nb450_uk.zip" which is also called release 158.

The OS.IMG (I have also - grasping at straws - tried renaming it OS.img to no effect) is on a 128MB no brand cf card. It did have a backup of my S7 C drive on it in a folder called "S7 backup" or similar. I have now tried again having removed everything except the OS.img file but this produces exactly the same effect.

Julie, it is very reassuring to hear that you had the same symptoms and things eventually came right. I shall persevere some more. My next step it seems is to try downloading the OS again and installing it from a different CF card. I shall also try reinserting the S7 personality module to check that that still works.

Thank you both for your comments. I'll let you know how things turn out. (If anyone has further comments, or can say that they have also recovered from similar symptoms, I'd be grateful to hear them.)

Best regards,
Ian

[netBookBabe]

Ian

Just a quick thought - I seem to recall that the procedure for re-naming the downloaded file to OS.IMG stresses that this should be done on the Psion.

I don't know how vital this is, but thought it worth a mention, since I guess you may have been renaming on PC because of the circumstances.

Julie

[diem]

The only other thing I can think of suggesting is formatting the CF card before using it - this will ensure that file fragmentation is not causing any problems.

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by Ian Colvin
I am trying to install the latest UK netbook OS from Psion, "nb450_uk.zip" which is also called release 158.Ummm, I hardly dare ask this, but you did remember to unzip this file before renaming?

Sorry, but it's just another straw to clutch at!

Julie

[wanman]

Hi Julie,

I renamed my os.img file on my PC before copying it to a newly formatted (using Ateliers Smart Format) 128mb CF Card. I have not had any such problems installing the OS. Worth a try though, if all else fails.

Regards
Si

[wanman]

Ummm, I hardly dare ask this, but you did remember to unzip this file before renaming?

:D :D lol

Julie, how could you ask such a question?? And more importantly, would Ian really admit to it if he had not?

Regards
Si

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by wanman
I renamed my os.img file on my PC before copying it to a newly formatted (using Ateliers Smart Format) 128mb CF Card... Hmm, interesting Si. I checked the original readme text that came with the download - it says:

"Extract the OS Image file to the CompactFlash card. This may be performed with PsiWin and a Psion netBook or with a separate CompactFlash cardreader.

Rename the OS Image on the CompactFlash card to OS.IMG. This must be performed using directly on the netBook."

I can't really see why it should matter, as you seem to have proved! :)

Julie

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by wanman


:D :D lol

Julie, how could you ask such a question?? I know, Si, I know, but I did apologise in advance!

All the same, in very recent memory is an episode where we spent days working on a problem which turned out to have its source in something basic - just ask MikeMcC! ;) I seem to recall you've been there too, Si! :D

Anyhow, sorry again Ian, sorry, sorry, sorry!

Julie

[wanman]

Hi Julie,

DOH, perhaps I should start reading the instructions in future !!! I guess I was just lucky, which is more than can be said with PCMCIA cards !!! lol. It is definitely worth Ian giving it a go although he will need reinstall his 7 module first and create the CF card on this before reinserting the netbook module, unless he has another ER5 machine he can use.

Regards
Si

[Ian Colvin]

:D Thank you all for your comments and help!
After a certain amount of faffing around (mostly to do with backing up all the stuff I had on a different cf card before formatting it and re-downloading the OS.img file with a PC in case my Mac was responsible for corrupting the file in some way) I managed to get the thing to start. :D
I am a very happy person tonight.

(I had managed to unzip and rename the file correctly first time - but I'm never offended to be reminded of the obvious as it aint always obvious to all of us ! :) )

Now all I need is to get hold of an ethernet or wireless ethernet card to explore all the new potential of my new 7book! (After this afternoon's marathon down- and uploading session I shall be very happy to say goodbye to connecting via serial cable forever.)

Once again, thankyou all for your help.
Ian

[netBookBabe]

Ah!! Didn't know it was a Mac! No personal experience, but heard several Mac users complaining of corrupt files when using CFs between Mac and netBook, so that might just be the explanation.

Anyhow, all's well that ends well - I am very pleased to hear that the problem is resolved, Ian. Have fun with the 7Book! :D

Julie

[Ian Colvin]

Julie,
Thanks for your good wishes. It may be helpful to other readers to clarify that I didn't use the cf card in the Mac (precisely because I'm aware of the problems this can cause) but transferred the OS down the serial cable using comms and xmodem. So it gave me problems despite this rather than because the Mac had messed up the cf card.
The cf card was brand new - though I forget, it's possible I backed up my S7 C drive on to it before I downloaded the OS, so perhaps that might have caused fragmentation? - but I hadn't formatted it. So I still don't know whether it was the reformatting of a CF card before transferring the OS.img on which solved the issue, or whether it was the Mac involvement in downloading the OS.zip file (I unzipped it on the Psion with RMRzip) which threw out the original upgrade attempt, or whether there was some fault with that new cf card that would have been solved by formatting it first. I have now reformatted it just to be safe.
Anyway I though I should put this down in case anyone else gets a similar set of symptoms, to encourage them to persevere. Its worth it.
Thanks again.
Ian

[wanman]

Great news Ian, Glad everything is now sorted.

Regards
Si