Applications go in ROM and cannot be deleted

[Rene Flipo]

Hello, I am using a Palm 505 with a 126 meg SD Card and I am encoutering the folllowing problem: many of my applications go into ROM, are locked and cannot be deleted, or moved from card to ram or the other way around, using McFile, FileZ or Beamware.
And when I upgrade a product, I am often left with two versions, one in Ram and one (which I presume is the old one) in ROM. Many DB files also are often put in ROM and I do not know why.

So I am losing a lot of space. Can someone tell me if that is nortmal ?
Thank you very much in anticipation
Rene Flipo:(

[Telyx]

Your programs and DBs are more likely being put onto the card, not into ROM--you would need to use a flash utility like JackFlash or FlashPro to do that. In your HotSync Manager (on your computer), when you want to load a program or database into your handheld, you should see a "Change Destination" button on the Install Tool screen. Highlight any programs or DBs you want to put in RAM, then click Change Destination and select the device instead of the SD card. (I suspect the Install Tool was installing programs to your SD card for some reason.)

[Rene Flipo]

Hello Telyx,
Thank you for your reply.:confused:
I have Jackflash and Spart and I have cleared the flash memory of its unused languages and moved a few simple applications into flash.
But my problem does not come from there. When I install, I always install into the device ram memory first (unless it is a large database like a dictionary) and I move onto the sd card with PIdirect or Power Run afterwards.
According to McFile the locked applications I mention are in the device memory with a black lock sign. When I want to move them to card or erase them, I am told that it is impossible because they are used or are in ROM. I name a few: Ababall, Bejeweled, CityZen, efdat (english french section of the Collins Dictionary) fedat (French english section of the same dictionary) etc...
And the same applications also appear, according to McFile, unlocked, in the PIDirect directory in the SD card. This duplication is specially troubling for the database files of the Collins Dictionary that are about 1.5 meg each and others like that.
I hope I make myself clear.
Thank you very much
Rene Flipo

[DrMud]

McFile is an excellent file manager but lacks some components that you will find useful for your problem. Download the demo of myWorkBench. This application can see better and work on files better than anything else I have tried. And the developer "Danny" likes to answer questions.
DrMud


myWorkBench (http://www.toysoft.ca/myWorkbench.html)

[Rene Flipo]

Hello DrMud,
Thank you very much for your advice. I will go immediately to find and try myWorkBench
With very best regards
Rene Flipo

[DrMud]

Be sure to keep us updated.
DrMud

[Rene Flipo]

Hello DrMud,
I have tried and played around myWorkBench and, although it does not solve my immediate problem, I will certainly purchase it as it is so much clearer, more powerful, and better designed than McFile. Thank you for your advice.
But even with myWorkBench, when I want to delete from RAM the "efdat" file of the Collin english french-french english dictionary (marked as "copy protected" and "back up") it says "cannot delete from ROM" even it I uncheck "copy protected" and "backup".
I have a duplicate of the same file on my SDcard, marked only "backup", but if I delete it, then my english french version of the dictionary does not operate anymore.
The same situation applies exactly in the same way for the "fedat file" which is the french-english section of the dictionary and which also appears in RAM and on the SDcard.
And if I want to delete the whole Collins dictionnary application (using Launch'em 3.1) it says "Errror, cannot delete from ROM", referring obviously to the same two database files ("efdat" and "fedat"). I have put the question to "tom.tom.com", the developper of this very good dictionary, but have never received any ansmwer.
If you have an idea of where the problem can be, do let me know. Otherwise a million thanks anyway for the tip on myWorkBench
With very best regards
René Flipo

[DrMud]

Hi,
Your situation causes me to scratch my head and as hair is in short supply I don't want to do much of that. My opinion is that the files you are seeing are the RAM stubs used to call the apps moved to the card. Why they are encrypted in such a way as to end up undeleteable and in ROM is the issue. It was a good idea to go to the source but if they are not going to answer you
lets ask Danny Wong the creator and genius behind myWorkBench. danny@toysoft.ca. Danny is in Canada and will respond to your email.
DrMud

[Rene Flipo]

Thank you very much,
I will indeed ask Danny. The encryption explanation might be the right one (I am using Crytopad instead of Notebook...)
By the way, is it safe to delete all the "Orphaned" files found by myWorkBench or should one dicriminate ?? I see that there is no "Manual" as such coming with myWorkBench. But I bought it now and am extremely pleased with it.
With kind regards
René (french journalist staying for the time being in South Africa).

[DrMud]

René,
In general deleting orphans is a good idea but in your situation I would wait until you have a clear picture of the underlying causation. Give Danny a note on the orphans as well.
Best regards,
Doc

[Telyx]

At this point, I wonder if the "applications" Rene is seeing in RAM (locked, with the Palm claiming they're in ROM or used) are actually "placeholders" or program stubs created by PiDirect or PowerRun. If you try to delete those, because the actual program is on the card maybe PiDirect or PowerRun won't let you do it. If you delete the stub or shortcut, PiDirect or PowerRun wouldn't know where to find the actual program on the card...

I would ask Rene if the program on the card and the (locked) program of the same name in RAM are of the same size.

[DrMud]

THE place holder/stubs were my first thought but why do the show up in ROM? Mine are all showing in RAM. I run 33 apps off the card. None have anything in ROM!
DrMud

[Rene Flipo]

Thank you DrMud and Telyx,
Yes the files are of the same size (which is the problem) and not symply stubs. Danny told me to do a soft reset, which I had already tried, but it does change anything. Yes I am using Powerrun and PIDirect, and my dictionary is working from PIDirect.
Be careful of the hair you have left DrMud !
With very best regards
René

[Toysoft]

HI,

How are you putting the files in ROM? using your file manager?
How it is possible that Hotysnc put the new file into ROM? do you have a program that put your files into ROM?

If your programs are locked then that means the database is opened and can not be deleted.

Also, how do you know that your dbs are in ROM? If you select the file in your file manager and do a properties on it does it have the "ROM Database" checked?

One solution is to do a soft reset and launch your file manager right away and try to delete the files. This will ensure that your dbs are not opened by other apps.

Its is very odd that your dbs and apps are in rom by itself.

regards,



Originally posted by Rene Flipo
Hello, I am using a Palm 505 with a 126 meg SD Card and I am encoutering the folllowing problem: many of my applications go into ROM, are locked and cannot be deleted, or moved from card to ram or the other way around, using McFile, FileZ or Beamware.
And when I upgrade a product, I am often left with two versions, one in Ram and one (which I presume is the old one) in ROM. Many DB files also are often put in ROM and I do not know why.

So I am losing a lot of space. Can someone tell me if that is nortmal ?
Thank you very much in anticipation
Rene Flipo:(

[Rene Flipo]

Hello Toysoft, Tylex and MrMud:
Thanks to myWorkbench I uninstalled the dictionary by deleting application in ram and efdat and fedat files in pidirect. But efdat and fedat in ram still could not be deleted from ram for "being in use or in Rom". I then reinstalled the dictionary. There was then in ram the dictionary application plus a duplicate of efdat and one of fedat. My ram memory decreased by as much (by about 2.7 meg). But those those two databases freshly installed were not locked. I moved them in Pidirect and the ram free space came back to the original size (3.1 meg).
So I am back at square one. With and efdat and a fedat in pidirect and and efdat and a efdat in ram which I cannot delete for being "in use or in rom"). They are both are marked "backup"and "copyprotected" (But NOT "Read only") while their equivalent or duplicates in PIdirect are only marked "backup". But when I delete those two dat files from pidirect the dictionary does not work anymore.

it is possible that the dat files in ram are only stubs or references for the one in Pidirect as someone suggested. But then their properties should not show the same full size (about 1.5 meg) should they as their the dat files in pidirect ? Both, in ram or Pidirect, are marked type "file".

I think this time I will maybe giveup (I also have relatively few hair left) and just live with my 3 meg of free space in RAM although I could use more.

Thank your for your patience to all and with very best regards
René Flipo

[Toysoft]

HI Rene,

You have piDirect installed and enabled? this could be the proble as piDirect may have locked the databases. Try to disable piDirect and do a soft reset then try delete the files again.

If all fails backup your palm and do a cold reset. Once you have cold reset your palm goto your backup folder on the desktop and delete the databases that you don't want to use then hotsync.

regards,

danny

[Rene Flipo]

Hello Danny,
That seems extremely good advice. But when I disable PiDirect i Cannot "see" the two dat files in ram any more with myWorkbench (but I still see them on the card in the Pidirect directory). I do not see them with Filez either. So I cannot delete them. I will try tonight the Hotsynch solution after a cold reset. And will keep you posted.
Thanks a lot
René

[Toysoft]

Rene,

I think the problem is because with piDirect it fools the PalmOS thinking that the dbs are in ram but in reality its is on the card. So when you try to delete the ram version it is a reference to the card version thus the OS will give you the error that the file is protected or in rom.

I don' think there is a problem with your Palm. It is way the how piDirect works. Think of the ram version of the databases as a shortcut to the card. The actual file still resides on the card and not in ram.

Hope this helps.

regards,

danny

[Rene Flipo]

Yes Danny,
I think that your explanation is the correct one. I have tried to hotsynch after removing the dat files from the desktop backup and:....there are the files visible in ram again, after the restore operation, although removed from the desktop archive.
Long exchange to arrive at the truth and thank you so much for your help.
I hope this little problem as also been useful to ohers.
With very best regards
Rene