D. Lowe's NetBooks

[jgs1]

No probs - I'm busy playing with my new netbook that was delivered this morning :-)

The modem cable appears to be a US type cable - anyone know if I can just get a convertor or if a new cable is needed?

[hammera]

Index, the catalogue shop, sell one for a couple of quid. This was the cheapest mainstream source I could find.

Adam

[jgs1]

bought one for £2 - doesn't work- slight moment of panic as thought the gold card could be faulty but remember that my pc's modem has a us phone jack in the back so tried it through that and it worked fine. Tried the adaptor with a USA phone mouse I had - totally dead. Realised the adaptor had 4 wires connected and the gold card and the phone leads only had two so disconnected the other two wires - no effect - so its back to square one - try and find a us adaptor with only two wires connected or by a UK psion gold card lead. Might try another us adaptor as well just in case the one I had was doddgy.

Also couldn't get PSIWIN to see the netbook either until I switched over from the MC218 lead I'd been using to the one that came with the netbook. then again maybe just a co-incidence as psiwin is flaky as hell on XP anyway.

(In fact I'm using Ericssion Epoc Connect - is there a Symbian branded Psiwin available yet?)

[ohsix]

>then again maybe just a co-incidence as psiwin is flaky as hell on XP anyway. <

Not on my WindowsXP. PsiWin 2.3.3 work perfectly. You do have v 2.3.3 don't you?

[lenb]

jgs1

Just read your posting ............


Roll on Wednesday!


lenb

[MikeMcC]

sceptics silenced!
jgs1

Just read your posting ............

Roll on Wednesday!

lenb? ? ?

[lenb]

I assume ??? means something like "what are you on about" (sorry I'm new to this) but earlier on there were a lot of people sceptical about the validity of D. Lowes netbooks etc. It looks like they were wrong and mine arrives Wednesday. My las post was meant for jgs1, sorry if I got it wrong!

lenb

[MikeMcC]

Originally posted by lenb
I assume ??? means something like "what are you on about" (sorry I'm new to this) but earlier on there were a lot of people sceptical about the validity of D. Lowes netbooks etc. It looks like they were wrong and mine arrives Wednesday. My las post was meant for jgs1, sorry if I got it wrong!No problem :) I just couldn't follow what the message was referring to. Enjoy the netBook when you get it on Wednesday.

[jgs1]

Great site you've got btw Mike - helped me out no end a couple of years back when I got my MC218 and was trying to get HSCD to work on my 6210

[cshandley]

Originally posted by lenb
there were a lot of people sceptical about the validity of D. Lowes netbooks
etc. It looks like they were wrong and mine arrives Wednesday. My las post was
meant for jgs1, sorry if I got it wrong!

lenb

We were worried he was selling Series7 mobos with Netbook personality modules as
real Netbooks. Can you confirm if your unit is a real Netbook?

For a start it should not have been necessary for Mr Lowe to open the "Netbook",
so the sticker above the keyboard should be present.

And Information/Machine... menu should report "Type Netbook", although sadly
this can be modified using software, so it is not foolproof.


The only "sure" way to test if it is a Netbook (apart from dismantling it!) is
to use a high-current PCMCIA card - although we expect from what he says that
GPRS cards will not work. Try e.g. Psion Gold Dacom 56Kb + 10Mb card, or
wireless ethernet cards, or even an IBM Microdrive in PCMCIA adapter.

Regards,
Chris Handley

[lenb]

As I have said before I have spoken to D. Lowe and don't have any reason to doubt that these are not true netbooks. Indeed if they aren't then wouldn't he be in a lot of trouble with trade descriptions?
When mine arrives this week I will check where I can and report back but I say again that I am quite happy that I am buying a netbook "proper".

Regards.

lenb

[jgs1]

Ok - Black Leather outside casing with metal badge saying Netbook.

Unit serial number starts indicates it was built Week 51, yr2000

Internally:

Turquoise Epoc system button.
Uk Keyboard

Information/Machine reveals:

type netbook
software version 1.05(450)
Lang English UK.

Hardware:
Processor SA-1100
Speed 191.692mhz
Rom size 14
Ram Size 18

The personality modulehas 3 chips on it - one on the left slightly larger than the other two and branded SHARP.9813 50

The middle chip has what appears to be a serial number and
Version 1.0 14/03/01 on a white sticker on it.

The last chip has a orange circle sticker on it.

The badge above the keyboard *is* missing.

The external PSU/charger is branded Suncom.

[jgs1]

Oh regarding the PCMCIA cards, I don't have any to try but he was advertising some of the CISCO WIFI cards which work them for an extra £50

[cshandley]

Originally posted by jgs1
Ok - Black Leather outside casing with metal badge saying Netbook.

Doh! Obvious way to tell Netbooks apart from Series7s... Although it might be easy to mistake the dark blue cover for black - unless you've seen a real Netbook.
---
Chris Handley

[walkerp]

The 'MalayBook' also has the logo above the keyboard missing, but has a black leather case.

So..could David Lowe be selling Malaybooks with genuine NetBook personality modules ?

Anyways....I think we're all just curious as to David Lowe's source of supply....

[MartinG]

I think I can answer that question. I had a conversation with him at the time he started advertising as I was potentially interested in buying a spare battery. IIRC, I suggested to him that his only real source of volume supply could be mBooks and that meant he was upgrading/changing the 'personality modules'. He confirmed that was the situation.

He's also selling the personality modules on their own on condition that buyers return their Series 7 modules. Initially people thought that perhaps he was doing nefarious things like selling netBook-badged machines with S7 modules in them to unsuspecting buyers on ebay, etc. I suspect it's much simpler than that. He's figured out how to re-program S7/mBook modules as netBook modules.

This is entirely feasible since the _only_ difference between any of the modules is the code in the Flash ROM. The processor on the S7 is deliberately 'throttled back' by the code and the memory 'virtually' halved I believe. Psion did this for ease of manufacture and volume/cost savings. Once they had the modules in stock they just 'blew' them as demand dictated. Not entirely sure how they jigged the 16Mb/32Mb upgrade modules but again that could be a code check thing at power on...

Of course, the debate continues as to whether he's selling 'real' netBooks - although for all intents and purposes I suppose he is. And at that price, who's going to argue? With a few weeks hindsight of reports from buyers, he appears to be running a legit 'backroom' business as far as I can tell (at least, I haven't seen any bad reports yet). He's probably kept his modus operandi fairly quiet for fear that Psion come down on him as they did with Clove/Expansys when the original upgrade modules appeared...

Cheers,
Martin

[comical_ali]

Howdy guys & Gals,

I'm a new user and thought I'd drop a line.

I recently bought a ?book from David Lowe as a replacement for my trusty S7.

I've got to say that after the initial delivery delay I have been nothing but satisfied with my ?book. It seems to go a damn site quicker than my S7 and it has more memory so all round a big thumbs up to David.

As to whether it's a real netbook - it looks like one it, it smells like one ( just gotta luv that new leather, heh heh), and it seems to run like one ( in my ltd capacity to judge ) so does it matter ? ?

Great forum by the way - found loads of usefull info.:p

[fladda]

Originally posted by MartinG
He's also selling the personality modules on their own on condition that buyers return their Series 7 modules. Initially people thought that perhaps he was doing nefarious things like selling netBook-badged machines with S7 modules in them to unsuspecting buyers on ebay, etc. I suspect it's much simpler than that. He's figured out how to re-program S7/mBook modules as netBook modules.

This is entirely feasible since the _only_ difference between any of the modules is the code in the Flash ROM. The processor on the S7 is deliberately 'throttled back' by the code and the memory 'virtually' halved I believe. Psion did this for ease of manufacture and volume/cost savings. Once they had the modules in stock they just 'blew' them as demand dictated. Not entirely sure how they jigged the 16Mb/32Mb upgrade modules but again that could be a code check thing at power on...


You CANNOT reprogramme the Series-7 personality modules to become Netbook modules. Hardware is substantially different. Series-7 operating system runs from ROM, whereas the Netbook/Mbook/7Book operating system runs from RAM.

This is probably also the main technical reason why thy Series-7 runs at a slower clock speed than the the Netbook. StrongARM can read instructions quicker from DRAM than it can from flash/masked ROM. One of the reasons that the original ARM processor was so fast is that ARM uses the ablility of using fast paged DRAM to read instructions at a faster rate.

Now the Mbook personality modules have a different Psion part number on the label on the middle (DRAM) IC. Please can somebody with a LoweBook (hence to be known as LBooks;-) tell us what this number is. This will settle the argument over whether David Lowe is reprogramming the personality modules once and for all.

My Mbook number is 2031 0072 01 Version 1.0 19/03/01.

Q. What number do the Lbooks out there have ?

Q. Or has David Lowe removed the label ? (also a givaway).

Ralph

[MartinG]

Originally posted by fladda
You CANNOT reprogramme the Series-7 personality modules to become Netbook modules. Hardware is substantially different. Series-7 operating system runs from ROM, whereas the Netbook/Mbook/7Book operating system runs from RAM.
Hi Ralph,

I'm aware that the netBook loads the OS into RAM and the S7 runs it from the ROM itself. Why does that necessarily make the hardware substantially different?

Originally posted by fladda
This is probably also the main technical reason why thy Series-7 runs at a slower clock speed than the the Netbook. StrongARM can read instructions quicker from DRAM than it can from flash/masked ROM. One of the reasons that the original ARM processor was so fast is that ARM uses the ablility of using fast paged DRAM to read instructions at a faster rate.

DRAM and SRAM are intrinsically faster (usually) than Flash so what you say applies to any processor. Psion wanted to differentiate the nB from the S7 (or the S7 from the nB if you prefer) and the only way to achieve the nB speed was to load the OS into RAM as you outline. Running the OS from Flash in the S7 made for cheaper cost in the early days (less RAM required).

Originally posted by fladda
Now the Mbook personality modules have a different Psion part number on the label on the middle (DRAM) IC. Please can somebody with a LoweBook (hence to be known as LBooks;-) tell us what this number is. This will settle the argument over whether David Lowe is reprogramming the personality modules once and for all.

Good idea! :) Unless he's changed/removed the labels of course... :(

Martin

[fladda]

Originally posted by MartinG

Hi Ralph,

I'm aware that the netBook loads the OS into RAM and the S7 runs it from the ROM itself. Why does that necessarily make the hardware substantially different?



Sorry for not making myself clear. Only the hardware of the personality modules is different between the Series 7 and the Netbook. Otherwise the Series 7 and the Netbook are practically identical, apart from the branding.

Most Series 7 motherboards are *IDENTICAL* the most Netbook motherboards. Earlier Series 7 motherboards were different, and now the new Netbook motherboards are different. In between they were identical hardware wise.

Interesting that the motherboard appears to have the artwork for the 2x8Mbyte DRAMs and the 2Mbyte boot loader flash ROM. I've got a spare motherboard, so I might try creating a personality moduleless RalphBook;-) However soldering that flash ROM component does not look easy...

Ralph

[MartinG]

So maybe he's a bit handy with the soldering iron also for the modules? AFAIK the processor is the same, the Flash size is the same - only the DRAM was different between the S7 and the nB...

Martin

[jgs1]

Originally posted by fladda


Now the Mbook personality modules have a different Psion part number on the label on the middle (DRAM) IC. Please can somebody with a LoweBook (hence to be known as LBooks;-) tell us what this number is. This will settle the argument over whether David Lowe is reprogramming the personality modules once and for all.

My Mbook number is 2031 0072 01 Version 1.0 19/03/01.

Q. What number do the Lbooks out there have ?

Q. Or has David Lowe removed the label ? (also a givaway).



No the label is there (see earlier posting) but I didn't quote the number as assumed it was a serial number - mine does appear to have a different date to yours though - I'll check tonight on the number and report back.

[fladda]

Originally posted by MartinG
So maybe he's a bit handy with the soldering iron also for the modules? AFAIK the processor is the same, the Flash size is the same - only the DRAM was different between the S7 and the nB...


Artwork and layout of the Series 7 personality module is completely different to the Netbook personality module. So its not simply a matter of replacing the ROM chips with DRAM chips.

Ralph

[jgs1]

Right heres the number:

2031 0072 01

Any use?

-- and ive just re-read the above posts and its the same number which presumably means hes found a way to re-program them ??

[donkeyontheedge]

I've just sent off my cheque to Mr Lowe for a NetBook module for my S7. He says 21 days "for processing". So I'm without my S7 for amost a month :(

Good job I also have a 5mx to keep me occupied in the meantime :D

When the module eventually arrives I'll let you know what the numbers on it are...

John

[Abdullah]

So basically, are they just mBooks which he has figured out how to reprogram?

[lenb]

"Just mbooks" ..........

Mine arrived today ........ and as far as I am concerned it is a netbook!!! Does it really matter wether a letter m or L is put before it.

And after all it has been made by Psion.

My thanks to Dave Lowe for his very good service and friendly manner.

Len Baker

[fladda]

Until now there has been no hard evidence to show that David Lowe was reprogramming the Mbook personality modules.

Evidence in this thread seems to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that David Lowe is indeed just reselling Mbooks. Also that David Lowe might be reprogramming the Mbook personality modules with the pucca Netbook boot loader code.

Number on my two pucca Netbook personality modules is :-

2031 0037 01 Version 011

Number on the 'Mbook' personality module is :-

2031 0072 01 Version 1.0

I suggest that there are two ways of reprogramming the Mbook modules :-

1. Build a custom board to read/write to the 2Mbyte flash ROM. I reckon that you could use the a standard SD-RAM DIMM socket (JEDEC) (or part thereof) to interface to the Mbook DIMM. Power, address and data lines are probably different to a standard PC SD-RAM DIMM, so you'd almost certainly need to build a special prototype board. I'm considering building a special podule on my RiscPC for this, using a Scenix micro for all the time critical stuff.

2. Use Psion's own flash ROM reprogramming utility. Appears that the programme used to reflash the Series 7 is the same or similar to that used to reflash the Netbook personality module. Programme appears to use three different input filenames for 2Mbyte, 4Mbyte and 12?Mbyte flash ROMs. Would need to a copy of a pucca Netbook ROM image, or develop a programme to read this on the Netbook. Might have to patch the flash programme at assembler level to use the correct file and ROM size.

Problem is that you only have one chance to reprogramme the personality module. If you screw up the flash ROM, then the personality module will not boot-up, and you'll never be able to subsequently reprogramme the flash ROM, without recourse to an off-line programming solution (see 1 above).

Comments welcome...

Incidentally I have not posted these thoughts before, as I'd suspected that the person most likely to benefit would be David Lowe. However, as it does appear that David Lowe is already reprogramming the personality modules, then there's nothing to lose (except the possible wrath of Psion Teklogix??).

David Lowe is charging 60 odd quid just to reprogramme the personality module. We need some competition here to force down prices, to around GBP 0.0:-)

Ralph

[yyang]

hi all,

i am new here and just got a mbook, saw this topic talking about lowe's lbook service. can anyone please tell me how to cotact him and if possible, the procedure to replace the personality module? thank you so much.

yy

[jgs1]

"Mine arrived today ........ and as far as I am concerned it is a netbook"

Agreed! upgradable os and does everything the original (non-power modified) netbook does.

I'd suspect he has a hardware method of reflashing the chips - if it was a software method using the psion tools someone else would have found out by now surely?
:)

I had originally suspected it was an Mbook with a netbook personality module installed on it, which was I posted details of the module originally. I'm completely happy with mine, and as far am I'm concered for all intents and purposes it is a netbook, I'm just interested from a technical point of view as to how its actually done.

[fladda]

Originally posted by jgs1
I'd suspect he has a hardware method of reflashing the chips - if it was a software method using the psion tools someone else would have found out by now surely?


PLease think about this in more detail.

Would you run a flash utility that could trash your Netbook ? Not worth the risk of trying for most Mbook owners, as the Mbook operating system is already almost identical to the pucca Netbook build 450. Only people with several Netbooks who could afford to trash a personality module would try this.

Also getting hold of the Netbook's flash ROM boot image is not that easy. On RiscOS you can save the complete operating system ROM image to a file, using just one command e.g. *save file_name start_address+length. Is there a similar command for EPOC ? I suspect not.

So how do you save an image of the boot ROM on a Netbook ?

Ralph

[Turbo]

Has anybody checked out the flashing programs for the Netpad? (nprepro?)

- Mike

[Abdullah]

i think i tried it - it didn't work...

[Clatoo]

Hello all,

Again, an excelent thread from PDAstreet ! ! ! !

I was the lucky owner of a Psion 5 which I had to part with for financial reasons a long time ago (wiping a tear, blowing nose).

Ever since, I wanted to buy an mx and now is the time...
Since then though, the 7 was released, then the Netbook.

I was unfortunate enough to bid for a Mbook, but with the help of PDAstreet, I was able to stop this nosense before it was to late.

Now :

The very last 5mx Pro are soon to be available from Clove for £260. What I liked from the 5 is that it ran off 2 AA for a month and fitted into my pocket. I ran old dos games from it, played loads of Monopoly while stuck in Bristish trains and did some programming as well, among many many other things.

Bliss.

Now, Clove is about to sell 2nd hand Psion 7 for £199.
It's bulkier, does not sports the same autonomy, but gosh ! it's in colour !

Now straight to the Lbook. My main gripe with the Mbook was its unability to accept an OS uppgrade. This apparently has been sorted out. I think of it (the netbook) as the ultimate Psion lover machine, am I right ? What's the thing about the "unmodified power pcmcia port thingy" ? Can I still use my mobile and a mapping software to, with ultimate geekyness, see a non moving cross on my map which, thanks to GPRS technology and american army sattelites, tells me that once again I'm stuck in a virgin train ?

Does anyone knows if the dos emulator works on the xbook ?
Or rather do 5 sofware take advantage of the larger screen ? I am not talking colour here.

To cut a long story short (too late !), I would be happy to go for a Lbook for the price of the Mbook if there is nothing I cannot do that a Nbook can.

Moreover, Can you think of anyone alive from this planet that would still prefer the 5mx Pro to a P7, 7/M/L/N book ?

Thanks

Clatoo

[jgs1]

All Psion 5 apps should be netbook compatible - certainly all the ones I've tried from my old psion collection work fine - XTM also works. Not all of them will run full screen though - worst case senario is that it will just run in the top 1/2 of the screen and look exactly like it did on a 5.

Power modified pcmcia port: My udnerstanding of this is some time ago psion up'd the voltage on netbook pcmcia ports so more power hungry cards like GPRS and isdn pcmcia cards could be used. These cards won't work on the earlier machine. (but you can still use GPRS via infrared to your mobile)

A small selection of Wifi pcmcia cards work ok, on the older netbook as well as psion modems and wired ethernet cards.

The MBook upgrade problem hasn't been sorted out for normal users as far as I'm aware there is still no way you can upgrade an Mbook if you have purchased one without fitting a Netbook personality module, however together with information from other users on this site, we have deduced that D.Lowe has got some way of re-programming the modules, but however it's done, isn't in the public domain at the moment.

[markdeppe]

Not sure this is correct but from memory I thought someone posted that the mbook was missing the psion netbook sticker below the screen and these Lbooks have one, so if they are converted mbooks then he must also have got the stickers. Maybe an mbook owner can confirm this

[jgs1]

The mbooks are missing the sticker.The (L)books are also missing the sticker (at least mine is)

I think given the thread above regarding the part number of the personallity module there isn't much doubt lbooks are reprogrammed mbooks. (not that that's a problem)

[markdeppe]

jgs1: My mistake, I thought I saw a posting that the Lbook had the sticker on the inside they must have been refering to the silver netbook metal label on the outside. Anyhow whatever, it is great to hear more people getting these great machines and enjoying them, and enlarging the psion community, hopefully things will continue to develop and people will be encouraged to register software and develop new or enhance current software. I am still amazed how much good stuff there is out there I have not got round to playing with yet. I just registered Littlesense dictionary I am very happy with then saw a posting about memoware and the huge tomeraider dictionarys available there and other stuff. I will need a lot more hours in the day before I start getting into that area :-)

[nigelp]

I also have a LBOOK and so far I am well chuffed, excellent price and does all it all seems to working fine (writing on it now). No sticker but this is coming soon according to David who was great to deal with, personally I dont care where the Netbooks come from!!

[spegru]

I'm fascinated by the possibility that an S7 personality module can be modified to become a Netbook one. This would have major implications for all S7 owners. Even if there is a power problem for some WiFI cards, it is still very possible to use a wired LAN - and then there's Opera etc.

I looked into this a bit several months ago, after I managed to get hold of one of the expansys nB personality modules.
I noticed that the S7 module has a different PCB to the nB one. The S7 module (mine anyway) has several chips on both sides, wheras the nB is single sided and far fewer (but larger capacity) chips. Therefore it can't *simply* be modified into an nB one.

So. If Mr Lowe is able to do this, then either there is another S7 release with a module that is more similar to the nB (Donkeyontheedge - did he ask what type you had?) or there is another method....

It is possible to reflash the S7 module using the Psion program of course, but my investigation into the chips used indicated that there was not enough capacity on the S7 module for a nB img file. Of course this could be reduced by removing some apps and rebuilding a special img file. This would not matter very much as some could be loaded later (eg Opera). Are you sure you have *all* the nB applications on the module?

Then again, it could be a combination of modding the S7 module with larger, pin compatible chips - and then reflashing witha nB OS.

Donkeyontheedge - I would be most interested in what seems to have been done you your module - especially, could you give us all the chip info...

rgds

spegru

[jgs1]

sorry you've got the wrong end of the stick, an Mbook or an Lbook is a netbook, not a series 7 with a personality module.

netbook-a= Original Netbook
netbook-b=late 2001?? > netbook with power modified pcmcia slot for gprs etc cards
Mbook = Netbook with non-upgradable OS.
Lbook = Netbook-a (appears to be an Mbook modified back to netbooka status)
7book = Series 7 with Netbook Upgradable OS and 32MB.

[donkeyontheedge]

Originally posted by spegru
So. If Mr Lowe is able to do this, then either there is another S7 release with a module that is more similar to the nB (Donkeyontheedge - did he ask what type you had?) or there is another method....

Donkeyontheedge - I would be most interested in what seems to have been done you your module - especially, could you give us all the chip info...

Well, I think he pulled out of the first deal I think because of the price. I wanted to keep my S7 module just in case, so I bid for a "nb module with Mbook module trade-in". It was £50. I said I wanted to pay the extra deposit of £50 for no trade-in and only when he realised I had a S7 not a Mbook did he rescind the offer.

I have now bid for a S7 upgrade module and sent him the module from my S7 (latest OS). The best bit is this has only cost me £75.

I should get the module in a few weeks (why does he need 21 days 'processing' time?) and will post the info on my new module when I get it.

John

[diem]

Originally posted by jgs1
netbook-b=late 2001?? > netbook with power modified pcmcia slot for gprs etc cards
netbook-b would be late 2002 I think. Also known as a Rev.10 netBook after the motherboard revision (netbook-a has a Rev.7 motherboard, confusingly enough!)

[wanman]

Hi John,

I have no links with Mr Lowe but have been in correspondence with some very satisfied customers. I think the delays are to ensure the cash has completely cleared before parts are issued. Don't worry, you should get them on time as everyone I have spoken to have.

Regards
Si

[fladda]

I think that David Lowe says he will ship 21 days AFTER the funds have cleared. This means that if you return a personality module for 'exchange', you will have to wait around one calander month for a replacement. Not particularly good service IMHO.

I suggest that the reason for this extra 21 day delay, might be that David places an order upon Sita when he receives your order;-) However, this would not explain why it takes so long just to reflash a personality module ??

Ralph

[donkeyontheedge]

Originally posted by spegru

I take it then, that this module is *not* your s7 one,modded. A pity really....

Nope. The S7 personality module was a very different beast.

Can you tell if the PROM has been *added*, from differences in solder appearance etc?

Looks professional. I would say an original. Judging by the state of the DIMM finger contacts, definitely second hand though.

Now I've seen it, I would say he is simply selling on a batch of modules he's managed to source from somewhere.

There's no paper lables on this module, unlike the S7 RAM module, indicating Psion part number, version etc.
So whether Mr Lowe has removed these to protect the identity of the source, I don't know...

John