Potential text for netBook Pro petition

[diem]

Hi all,

Sorry this has taken me a while, but I've had to print the entire previous thread and digest everyone's opinions and suggestions - thankyou for prviding so much 'meat' to work with! Here's my stab at some text for the petition. Please do not allow this thread to descend into a discussion of pros and cons of the netBook Pro hardware and Symbian porting options. Instead, please post short responses, indicating either agreement with the text or disagreement and a short explanation of why you disagree (or point me at your post on the previous thread).

I will be posting the petition over the weekend; we cannot allow this to wait longer.

Thanks all, and could those who have contact with other Psion enthusiast web sites please give them the nod that this thread is up for prompt review.

yan



Petition title : In support of providing a Symbian OS option for the Psion Teklogix netBook Pro

Petition body : We the undersigned are aware that Psion Teklogix are to be releasing a successor to the netBook; the netBook Pro. We further understand that the intention is to supply this new machine with the Windows CE operating system. Whilst we understand the attraction of this OS to the enterprise market (especially in the USA), we would contend that this is for reasons of familiarity with the OS rather than its fitness for purpose. As 'power users' of the netBook it would be remiss of us not to put forward the case for offering Symbian an an OS option on the new machine. We will first present the benefits of Symbian OS with respect to WindowsCE, and then suggest possible routes to offering it as an option for netBook Pro.

The following is a distillation of a long discussion in the forums on the PsionPlace website (see http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18259), representing the views of a vast cross-section of users from many countries around the globe.

Aside from the well-understood benefits of smaller hardware footprint and greater stability, the key benefit of Symbian refers to the winds of change blowing in the mobile OS market.

- There are significantly more Symbian licencees than PocketPC Smartphone Edition licencees.
- ER7 developers at www.allaboutsymbian.com indicate that there is a significant market for a netBook Pro running ER7 as a development platform for ER7 smartphone software.
- a Symbian palmtop is the perfect companion for a Symbian smartphone.
- a Symbian option for netBook Pro provides an upgrade path for existing enterprise netBook customers; maintaining your customer base.

Thus we would be sad to see Teklogix not take advantage of their significant 'inside track' with respect to Symbian as it becomes the de facto mobile OS, and no doubt furthers its penetration into the enterprise market.

We would like to put forward the following range of proposals for making Symbian OS available for netBook Pro. Please excuse our understandable lack of in-depth knowledge of the issues involved in each:

1. Port Symbian OS V7 to netBook Pro. We are aware that this is not a heinous task, since the core OS supplies most of the necessary services and drivers; the Techview or EIKON UIs could be used for the front end with minimal modification.

2. Port Symbian ER5 to netBook Pro. This may be more or less work that V7, would have the benefit of taking advantage of the existing software base, whilst the cost of poor support for newer hardware features (USB, Bluetooth).

3. Encourage Symbian to open source ER5 (ideally the unreleased Unicode version). Many users would simply be happy to see ER5 running on better hardware, and an open source license would save you the trouble of writing low-level coode/drivers/stacks for the new hardware; the network of developers worldwide would do the work for you.

4. Involve a third party company to port either Symbian 7 or ER5 to the hardware and to resell it under an alternative name so as not to dilute your market presentation.

[pthwaite]

I agree, I'll sign it, please send it on asap

Howard

[Craggy]

Despite my lack of hope, I will sign.

[WolfUK]

Originally posted by diem
... As 'power users' of the netBook it would be remiss of us not to put forward the case for offering Symbian an an OS option on the new machine. ...Typo ... Symbian as an OS ...

Apart from that it is really good.

I noticed that Harvey posted a reply to a message today so maybe he will also shed some light on this subject.

[ehasbrouck]

Sign me up.

(I know we can't haggle about details, but IMHO the potential for a Symbian netBook as a consumer "companion" device to a Symbian phone, running common apps -- not mentioned in the petition draft, means much more in potential sales numbers than use of the Symbian netBook by Symbian developers. I would add an explicit reference to this potential market.)

[nigelp]

Go for it!

[MikeMcC]

Whilst we understand the attraction of this OS to the enterprise market (especially in the USA), we would contend that this is for reasons of familiarity with the OS rather than its fitness for purpose Can I advise against the use of the phrase fitness for purpose? This has specific legal connotations in relation to Sale of Goods legislation and on every occasion that I have seen the phrase mentioned in discussion, it has been used quite incorrectly (though I don't mean the way you've included it in the text).

The "fitness for purpose" legislation relates to a situation where you ask an expert for a suitable product, he suggests a product and, relying on his judgement, you buy the product which turns out not to be fit for the purpose which you specified to the sales person.

It has nothing to do with the quality of the goods, which is where people tend to quote the phrase, it is about being sold an unsuitable product for a specified purpose.

[ktkawabe]

Hi yan,
Thanks for your nice job.

I'd like to add some number. Doesn't it make sense to add something like the following one, right after "significantly more licencees" item?

- Last year, an analysis firm Canalys pointed out that Symbian's market share in EMEA (Europe, the Middle East and Africa) was 57% in Q3 2002 ( Canalys (http://www.canalys.com/pr/r2002102.htm) ). This means Windows-only device will be incompatible with majority of mobile devices in EMEA market.

Cheers,
Keita

[bobm22000]

With apologies, might this text substitution gain a more positive response from the powers-that-be?

Replace

"Whilst we understand the attraction of this OS to the enterprise market (especially in the USA), we would contend that this is for reasons of familiarity with the OS rather than its fitness for purpose. As 'power users' of the netBook it would be remiss of us not to put forward the case for offering Symbian an an OS option on the new machine."

with

"While we totally understand and accept that this will be the OS of choice for the target volume enterprise market for this product, as continuing power users of the existing netBook (and earlier Psion products) it would be remiss of us not to put forward the case for offering the Symbian OS as option on the new machine."

No matter how the proposal /petition is worded I will be most happy to give my support.

Regards, Bob

[Lewis]

Yup, I'll sign it & go 'knocking door to door' with all my Psion acquaintances, if necessary! Didn't grasp all the hi-tech hardware/OS discussion on Cangiante's thread, but this looks like an excellent, succinct distillation.

2. Port Symbian ER5 to netBook Pro. This may be more or less work that V7, would have the benefit of taking advantage of the existing software base, whilst the cost of poor support for newer hardware features (USB, Bluetooth).

Typo: "...less work than V7..."

Typo/Sense: "...software base, against the cost..." or "...at the cost..."

Lewis

[ktkawabe]

Of course I'll sign up.
Also I've sent this story out to Japanese Psion-related mailing lists.

[vazir]

I will sign up to it as well.
Thanks Yan for putting it together.
I hardly ever contribute, but am an avid browser of all that is posted.

Hasan

[hochi]

Hi yan,

in one word: Excellent!!

You did a great job putting all the different opinions together.
And of course I'll sign up!

bye,
Sebastian

[netBookBabe]

Huge thanks due to Yan for taking the time and effort to formulate the "plan". It all sounds fine to me. I too will do my bit to make sure as many Psion users as possible are aware of the campaign.

Great job, Yan! :)

Julie

[MikeyC]

Excellent, how do I add my name to it?

[netBookBabe]

Mikey

We'll make sure that everyone knows how to contribute once the detail is finalised and the petition goes "live". :)

Julie

[cangiante]

Thank you Yan for your support and the great job you've done!

Of course each one of us shall spread the word around.
I've just posted a link to this thread on Psion Fans Italia, the reference point for the Italian enthusiasts. In the mean time, I sent a message to the moderator of mypsion.ru.
Looking forward to the petition delivery date, I remain
Symbianfully Yours;)

gianluca

[stolkjo]

Yeah I'll sign it.

If it carries any value I am willing to hand deliver it in Mississauga.
It's about 6 hours drive from where I live.

Let me know!

John

[BradC]

Count me in.

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by stolkjo
If it carries any value I am willing to hand deliver it in Mississauga. Great offer, John - I hope you've got a truck!! ;)

:D :D :D

Julie

[cslim]

I'll sign.

[ktkawabe]

Yan, one very important question.Originally posted by Yan
I will be posting the petition over the weekend; we cannot allow this to wait longer.How people are supposed to sign up? My understanding is that once everything is finalized you post the petition to either this forum or public questionnair server or something, and people are supposed to officially sign up after it is published. And after a fixed period we send that to Psion T. Is this correct? Many people would prefer to decide if they want to sign up after everything is fixed.

[comical_ali]

Top work YAN.

Where do I sign:D

[diem]

Originally posted by ktkawabe
Yan, one very important question.How people are supposed to sign up?
I will be posting the (slightly modified) text at www.petitiononline.com - I'll let everyone know the URL when its done.

John - your offer of hand-delivery is wonderful - thankyou! Hopefully the online petition will print easily enough :)


Edited by netBookBabe to correct URL

[MartinG]

Count me in / Sign me up / Whatever's appropriate!

(And thank you for all your effort Yan!)

Martin

[andyahern]

Nice Work - I'll gladly sign up.

Andy:)

[Mobilix]

Very good work, Yan!

I am posting a news on www.Psionwelt.de and when the official petition will be on-line (small Typo: www.petitiononline.com) i will do the same on www.Mobile2Day.net too!

Best regards
Thomas
Editor
Psionwelt.net
Mobile2Day.net

[netBookBabe]

Thanks for pointing out the URL typo, Thomas. I've altered it.

Julie

[wanman]

Great job Yan and I am willing to add my name to this.

[tomas]

Great work, Yan. Thanks.

Just two comments:

a) in the 3rd point, there is "low-level coode", should be "code" I suppose.

b) Shouldn't we mention also the boot-selector capability for netBook Pro, so both systems could be present on one machine ?

Tom.

[diem]

Originally posted by tomas
Great work, Yan. Thanks.

Just two comments:

a) in the 3rd point, there is "low-level coode", should be "code" I suppose.
Thanks.

b) Shouldn't we mention also the boot-selector capability for netBook Pro, so both systems could be present on one machine ?

Tom.
No - I wanted to stay away from tech details - don't want to teach P-T to suck eggs ;) I'm sure they would offer the option if it fitted their dual-boot plans.

[cshandley]

Yan,

Seems a very good petition. But I have two points:

1. I don't think "heinous" is in common usage (at least in England), and therefore using an alternative word would be much better.

2. From PsionT's point of view, what should they interpret our signatures as representing? Simply a "passive" wish that they port ER5/7 to the netBook Pro, or an indication of an actual wish to purchase said product?

Regards,
Chris Handley

[diem]

Originally posted by cshandley
Yan,

Seems a very good petition. But I have two points:

1. I don't think "heinous" is in common usage (at least in England), and therefore using an alternative word would be much better.

Fair enough.

2. From PsionT's point of view, what should they interpret our signatures as representing? Simply a "passive" wish that they port ER5/7 to the netBook Pro, or an indication of an actual wish to purchase said product?

Regards,
Chris Handley

As a business, I think they cannot help but interpret it as the latter.

[MonkeyBoy]

Good work, Yan.

I have a suggestion maybe put,

'We have reason to believe that this would not be too great an undertaking.' or 'arduous a task'.

instead of the heinous bit.

With or without the change, i'll sign up. Thanks for all your time and work Yan and everyone else involved

[petitluc]

Since I'm not a netBook "power user" - but a new happy nB owner who found a fast, strong, usefull and non M$-polluted machine - I sign with great pleasure.

And bye the way, thanks to everyone for the great help you provide through this forum :)

[nclark]

Might it be worth mentioning the Netbook's ability to be a development environment for the Netpad and Workabout as well as Symbian phones, as these are current PT offerings.

Sign me up!

[wanman]

Yan Wrote: As a business, I think they cannot help but interpret it as the latter.

I hear what you are saying Yan, but PsionT have never been interested in the individual customer in the past. Surely they are more likely to listen to a business wanting 500 units with Symbian ER7?

Si

[netBookBabe]

Surely they are more likely to listen to a business wanting 500 units with Symbian ER7?
Do you know of one, Si? ;) I hope you do! :)

Julie

[diem]

Originally posted by wanman
I hear what you are saying Yan, but PsionT have never been interested in the individual customer in the past. Surely they are more likely to listen to a business wanting 500 units with Symbian ER7?

Si
For sure - unfortunately we aren't such a thing are we eh?

[wanman]

Hi NBB

Perhaps we can pursuade Clove or Expansys to put in a big order for us??......ok perhaps not.

I know....what if we set up our own company...PsiLovers PLC. We could then legitimately order a couple hundred units and demand symbian ER7?......mmmmm.

Oh there must be a way !!!!

lol

Si

[netBookBabe]

Si

That is spookily close to the thought processes I have been going through in the last half hour or so!! :eek:

Julie

[Kentaur]

Thanks YAN! You are great.

I will indeed join psionlovers PLC as a shareholder, just tell me how!

-Kentaur.-

[WolfUK]

So why not contact Chris Love at Clove (who is more likely to be responsive than Expansys) and see what he says? Maybe he has some clout with Teklogix and maybe he would put in an order based on potential sales.

[markdeppe]

Awesome. Where do I Sign Yan. I feel many have covered the issues, though I still feel there is something in the wording conveying a sense of "Teaching Granny to suck eggs", not to deny they might need this help, considering as they failed so convincingly in the past to support customers, please continue to post revisions to petition, for our proof reading, I feel it is being beautifully fine tuned. Si's idea of a bulk order sounds good if it could be organised - I would buy one (especially if it came at a reduced price, I would buy one with better hardware running er5), unfortunatly I feel I would be one of those waiting for a second hand model as the new price looks to be prohibitive.

I feel the offers of personal delivery very valuable and to have a physical presence, and a face and a name to deal with very important rather than say an emnailed petition which is too easily ignored. Concerned user / pressure group with a face :-) I feel yourself and other moderators and commited psionites would be perfect.

[markdeppe]

This news thread here at psionplace does not add hope to the ER7 on a pda it seems, though I would argue people would still prefer to gprs access their mail via a pda having tried reading email on a phone and recognising it is far from a joy:

Transcend Mail uses the permanent, 'always-on' connection made possible by the General Packet Radio Service (GPRS) network, enabling business users to access their email, contacts, and calendars automatically via Symbian OS mobile phones. The company said, by using GPRS in this way, Transcend Mail can keep a PC and a mobile phone continuously up-to-date, instead of using a scheduled synchronization process.

Psion Software claims the cost of implementation across a company can also be reduced by eliminating the need to provide traditional PDA devices, and mobile email can be rolled out to an entire organization through scheduled replacement and upgrades of mobile handsets. Plus, by using smartphones in this way, training costs are reduced since employees at all levels and across all industry sectors will already be familiar with the mobile phone user interface.

[markdeppe]

Just got a news letter from http://www.geek.com/pdageek and not a single psion mention - and I know in the past they had a soft spot for psion with several of them writing rave netbook reveiws - so emailed editor pointing him here, maybe if we could get a bit of US might behind us it could work, anyone think of others we could lobby

[alantracey]

Hi all,

I havn't been here for a while - It is heartning to see someone put so much energy into promoting the aspirations of this group - Keep up the good work Yan, we are proud of you - needless to say, count me in on the petition.

Alan Tracey

[vliegfietser]

Well done, Yan!
Count me in for this petition.

Jaap

[ktkawabe]

Yan, probably my last comment before you submit it:As 'power users' of the netBook it would be remiss of usThis limits the scope of "undersigned" to the netBook owners exclusively. If this is the intention of yours, I don't complain. If not, since it might be possible for non-owners to be willing to sign ("I'll buy netBook Pro if it supports Symbian 7"), I suggest to change the wording a bit:

"As 'power users' of the netBook and advocates of EPOC/Symbian operating system"

Please consider this. I'll support you anyway.

Cheers,
Keita

[netBookBabe]

I'm 100% in agreement with Keita's suggested amendment here - in my opinion it is certainly not just existing netBook owners who would be interested in our new "dream" machine. ;)

Julie

[Kentaur]

Who wouldn't have netbook with symbian 7 and new powerful hardware?

It is the perfect companion to anyone, most just don't know it ;)

Can we sign soon?

-Kentaur.-

[Psion1961]

Thanks YAN! You are great.
I sign it

Marco
working on Psion Product since Oct-'94
Italy

[CapnSoup]

Count me as signing it.

[marek]

I am eager to sign up this excellent petition. Also open to an interesting idea of bulk purchase, if it helps to port EPOC/Symbian to the new netBook hardware.

Once the exact "signing up" URL is known, I will post a message to the Polish mailing list for Psion computers enthusiasts.

[diem]

Thankyou all for your wonderfully kind words of support - I'm blushing right now! Its so heartening to hear from Psionites the world over :)

I'll modify the text to take on board the vast majority of your comments/corrections, and set up the petition sometime tomorrow - the URL will appear in a new thread for clarity.

The plan (pretty obviously) will be to let the petition gather signatories for some time before notifying P-T; please restrain yourselves from notifying any current employees you may be in touch with so that the impact will be greatest.

Soon soon!

[mvcube]

I agree with the petition! As a German netBook user, I've never seen a comparable system. (No need to put the reset button on the keyboard like on my HP720)

As a programmer, Symbian OS is a very pleasing environment, comparable in concept & stability with Java but written in C++!

Marcus von Cube,
professional Java developer

[psionino]

Hi Yan

you can count me in.

definetlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy..

Psionino

Good luck

[Franco]

Certainly agree with the petition.

Symbian 7 would be better.

We could add a clearer suggestion to Psion/Logitex to market more agressively the new machine to journalists, professionals, writers, etc. Guess they are missing a few sales and customer basis.

Please post it when the petition is submitted.

Excellent work !