iQue and Macs? [Archive] - PDA street forums

rkevwill

08-01-2003, 02:36 AM

I can't answer questions myself, until I receive my unit, but from another posting, it appears if you have any of the palm stuff in the mac side (OSX) the mac side captures the USB connection with the palm. Therefore, the Virtual PC side can't see the palm. At least, thats what I gathered. I-synch puts a plugin in the Palm folder, that causes that I believe. I for one can't wait to check all this.

This sounds like a previous problem with virtual PC and the Keyspan and Iogear serial adapters, and at least with the Iogear adapter, removing the software completely from the mac side, and only installing it on the VPC side solved the problem. VPC's usb stuff is so fragile, that if the mac captures the device first, you can't force it to accept it on VPC side. Interestingly however, that doesn't seem to apply to my USB printer, hmmmmm.

Anyway, we'll see. If it can be made to work, I know I can figure it out, and I will post it. In the meantime if ANY mac guys get theirs, please post their experience. If they can't get it to work with palm etc installed on the Mac side, try uninstalling everythiing palm (including prefs) on the mac, and just install on the VPC side the windows software. I have a suspicion that might work.

At the very least, I *might* be able to write an apple event, or applescript, to completely disable and hide anything palm on the mac side, and re-enter the stuff after using VPC, if the above does work.

RKW (geesh, here I am surmising whats going on, and I don't even have my Ique yet!)

rkevwill

08-01-2003, 02:38 AM

OH, and one more thing. I also got this idea because NowContact, and Up to date can't synch properly, if the Isynch and some other stuff is within the palm folder. Obviously, the palm and Isynch take over the connection on the mac side for sure, and don't let other things happen. Thats another reason I suspect the problem I have described in previous posts.

CaptMyCapt

08-01-2003, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by rustons
I have been using a MAC for 19 years (have a MAC 128) and was very interested in getting the IQue 3600 for business and sailing navigation.

Please think twice about the sailing navigation part. If you are just looking to have fun and enjoying the beautiful color screen when you're close to land and already know your route, fine. However, if you're looking to do some serious marine navigation, you may want to consider a serious handheld designed for that purpose. I've had a couple conversations with Garmin reps to come to this conclusion.

I lean toward Garmin units form marine navigation based real-life comparisons and a long history of GPS use on the Chesapeake, Atlantic, and Gulf of Mexico. There are other threads on the forum regarding marine navigation.

So, if we all can figure out the Mac scenario (I actually use both PC & Mac, so connectivity is not a real issue), make marine navigation a distant consideration for continuing with iQue.

rustons

08-01-2003, 12:39 PM

rkevwill,
Another update. Maybe I should have sent you my Ique to play with, haven't spent any time with it in the last two days, been travelling. Anyway a clarification. I have not yet installed VPC on my Mac. Was hoping to have the unit work with Mac OS and the Palm desktop so I thought I would simply load maps, etc from another Mac in the office that already has VPC. That is obviously not going to work well day-to-day so I will load VPC onto my Mac in the next couple of days and see where that takes us. Your advice about taking off all Palm stuff from the Mac OS will be tried.

CaptMyCapt,
I think you are absolutely right about very serious offshore navigation. I currently use a 2 year old Garmin handheld (Great unit and GREAT Garmin support, but that's a long story) with no chart plotting capabilities, and small B&W screen. This has worked well for me for cruising Long Island Sound and even some offshore sailing in the Block Island, Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket area.

My thinking is that with the added (but maybe limited) chartplotting and color, I will be pretty well served for my needs. I guess we will have to see exactly how scaled back the Blue Chart capability is on this unit. I think I will give it a try after I get the Mac OS stuff resolved.

Thank you both for your help and interest. Having spent a few days with the IQue I think its pretty great. I'm beginning to feel that we will resolve the Mac issues, and as a whole package of Palm software capability, business travel assistance, and occasional navigation for my boat, it's going to be super!

mac4me

08-01-2003, 01:09 PM

Thank you for contacting GARMIN International,
Since the iQue runs off of the Palm operating software that part of
the unit is MAC compatible. However, when it comes to GPS side (waypoints,
routes and track log information and the Map Source City Select CD) it is
not MAC compatible. We are very interested in helping all current and
potential GARMIN customers, but due to resource limitations and protection
of proprietary information, we cannot assist in a Macintosh interface at
this time.

The Virtual PC solution is the only option we have for our customers using
Macintosh computers. We can not guarantee that this will work and can not
support it's use, however a lot of our customer base has found success with
this. I can offer some links that might prove helpful when using this type
of interface.

For cables and attachments, please check out this site: http://www.gpsy.com/

For additional Mac information and software, please check out these sites:

http://www.sni.net/~lwjames/ and http://www.macgpspro.com/GPSPRO.html
For Mac use with MapSource, please check out this site:
http://www.cycoactive.com/gps/gps_vpc.html

Best regards,
Product Support Specialist
Garmin International

albritton

08-03-2003, 10:26 PM

i have been trying to sync my ique to 2 different macs for the past few days. i was able to install the software/maps via my pc, but all my contacts and such are on my macs. using latest osx, isync1.1, palm desktop 4.1, isync palm conduit, 800mhz ibook, 400mhz g4. tried to sync with just palm desktop software - unit just hangs waiting for some handshake from the computer. sometimes it even locks up and needs to be reset to work again. tried installing isync and isync palm conduit. no change. tried virtual pc 6 - multiple times - and finally got the software to even install after many install errors. no syncing though. virtual pc sees the USB cradle. i haven't tried to remove all palm software from the mac side as metioned in this thread, because it really doesn't matter to me if i get it to work with virtual pc - i still can't sync my contacts in address book ( osx ). has anyone got theirs to sync via osx? maybe i'm just missing something ...

Last Mrk

08-03-2003, 10:53 PM

It would be nice if all my contacts from my OSX Address Book etc. could be transferred to the iQue, but to me the important thing is being able to install and transfer all the maps etc. from the Map Source CD to the iQue using Virtual PC and USB.

If that can be done with out a problem other than taking forever, I'll order tomorrow. :)

I expect it to be easier to export/import from OSX Address Book to a Virtual PC iQue Address Book and then syncing to the iQue than directly into the iQue.

rkevwill

08-03-2003, 11:06 PM

again, I hate to keep sounding this alarm horn, but.....(and remember I don't have mine in yet) I am darn near SURE, you will not have any luck transferring maps etc from VPC, unless you have NO palm software on your mac. Everything I am hearing sounds exactly like the mac side is conflicting with the VPC side.(mac is capturing the USB)

Grrrrr, I hate this, I really want to get into my Ique and make it work with the macs.

Doesnt make much sense that the palm won't synch with the mac palm software though. Again, I can't wait to get my Ique, so I can see and dicker with this problem.

Last Mrk

08-03-2003, 11:25 PM

Just read this in iSync Help.

"To use iSync with a Palm OS device, you need to install the iSync 1.1 Palm Conduit software. Visit http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/isyncpalmconduit.html

Last Mrk

08-06-2003, 12:10 AM

Any more information on how the iQue works with Virtual PC 6 on OSX?

rustons

08-06-2003, 09:13 AM

Let me preface my comments by saying that I don't pretend to have a technical background.

However, I have tried to sync the IQue with the Palm Desktop 6.0 using OS 9.1 several times with the same unsuccesful result. The Palm software attempts to find the IQue and searches the Palm web site for appropriate software drivers. A final error message suggests that I get in touch with the manufacterer for software updates. This driver presumably has not been written by Garmin.

I can't say if you would have the same result with OSX.I have given up any more attempts to solve the issue, for now, and am just happy using the IQue as a stand-alone device until someone else solves the problem.

Have you gotten yourIQue yet rkevwill? I'm hoping he can help us all.

yolk

08-06-2003, 09:39 AM

Hmmm... this is not looking too good. I should be getting my iQue next week and had been hoping to sync using OSX and Virtual PC. ..

So time for Plan B: My 4 year old PC laptop which does not have much disk space left - guess its time to do spring cleaning. Does anyone know how much disk space is needed for the syncing and mapping software ? If we want to transfer 100MB of map data, do we need at least have that amount of free disk space or can we transfer directly from the CD ? Thanks !

Last Mrk

08-06-2003, 09:47 AM

I thought Palm Desktop 4.1 (http://www.palm.com/us/support/macintosh/mac_desktop.html) was the latest Palm Desktop for Mac OSX or Classic.

What is Palm Desktop 6.0?

lostagain

08-06-2003, 09:48 AM

I'm also a Mac User using a relatively old PC laptop for managing the iQue. The software (with all the regions) takes up over a gig. I think at a minimum it takes up around 600 megs.

One thing to keep in mind is that before it downloads to the iQue it has to build files. I moved a big hunk of the eastern half of the US and it took mucho time to build the files. It was hours on my slow laptop. Then downloading the files to the Palm took much time too. Excruciatingly slow.

I think a newer machine with better usb hardware, faster processor, and speedy disk drive would be better. But I don't sync that often....

My next task is to move my OSX address book to Palm Desktop on the PC. Shouldn't be too bad.

rustons

08-06-2003, 03:05 PM

Mrk you are right it is version 4.1 not 6, sorry

albritton

08-06-2003, 06:47 PM

from what i remember, you need to load the map data to the hard drive ( us / canada comes in 7 chunks of data i think ) and also it burns some sort of disk image to the drive before loading to the ique. then you also need to install palm desktop, ect. i think i needed about 1 gig for a few regions of maps.

rkevwill

08-06-2003, 06:51 PM

I just received notification that my Ique was shipped via Fedex. Of course, I am away on business LOL. Anyway, I will be home tomorrow night and I am SURE I will be playing with the Mac/garmin/virtual PC issue over the next few days. I will post my results as soon as I do.

I plan on taking a "scientific" path here. I will make sure there is NO palm software on the mac side first. Then, I will install everything natively on VPC second. I am MOST Interested in making the unit work with the mac first. Next, and only after and IF....I can make that work, I will see if I can do synching via the mac side, and also keep the VPC/Garmin side working.

I will post failures/successes at each step.

(I best hurry though, Im leavin for Tahoe week from thursday, and will want to take this with me.)

THANK YOU THANK YOU ADVENTURE GPS!!!!

yolk

08-07-2003, 10:19 AM

Thanks guys for the info on the disk space needed. 1 Gig is quite a lot on a laptop that has only 4 Gigs...

rkevwill: Good Luck. Looking forward to a Mac solution !

Last Mrk

08-07-2003, 10:55 AM

Don't expect any help from Connectix (Virtual PC) any time soon. Hopefully Microsoft will step up to the plate some time soon though.

This is a message I got yesterday when going to the Connectix Virtual PC forums (http://forum.connectix.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi).

rkevwill

08-08-2003, 10:28 AM

I was hoping to receive my Ique for testing by the time I arrived home from Chicago last night, but when I tracked the shipment, I see it still has my original super saver (or whatever) shipping on it. Apparently they did not see my later request for a change to overnight. Oh well, no big deal, I should receive it by monday at the latest.

As I said, my first goal is to get the GPS software working from the Mac and VPC first. Once I do that (and post the results) Then I will work on the address book etc.

More than likely, I can get these two things done by Wednesday, since we leave for Tahoe on Thursday. From what I hear on this board, I guess my auto kit won't be included, but, such is life. We will only have a rental car there anyway.

The GOOD thing about all this is I will be able to play with this the whole time we are away, and I can get familiar with it. Since my current laptop is a PC, I will be able to compare the usage with a PC/Versus how it works with a Mac and VPC.

Over and out till the unit is here and operating.

rkevwill

08-08-2003, 08:49 PM

Well gents and ladies, I have good news, and I have bad news. Good news is my Ique came today, and I have spent the last couple of hours trying to get it to work with the Mac and VPC. Bad news is, I can't get it to work. Everything installs fine, and VPC sees the usb connection when the Hot synch button is pressed. Problem is, I get the error message on the Ique HOT SYNCH PROBLEM, The connectin between your handheld computer and the desktop could not be established. Please check your setup and try again. In addition, when I go to Palm Desktop and select Hot Synch prefs, I only get serial com 1 and com 2 ports to select, no usb (interesting) Yes, I selected USB as the default for Hotsynch.

It appears as if there is a conflict between VPC usb, and the garmin. VPC certainly sees the garmin, as posted by another forum participant before. But when you try to hotsynch during the setup, no go. (you don't think Garmin purposely put something in the connection so it wouldn't work with VPC do you?

This is doubly frustrating, because the only USB items I have not been able to get to work with VPC, is the garmin card writer with my Street Pilot lll, and now this Ique.

I will keep messing with it, and if I have success will post. If I can't get it to work properly, more than likely I will send it back.

Last Mrk

08-08-2003, 09:23 PM

*#@%$# Garmin and Virtual PC. Garmin for not natively supporting Macs, and VPC for not doing a good job on USB support.

This is the most disappointing news I've had in a long time.

rkevwill - Thanks for the input and good luck with your testing.

With my Garmin USB card programer, I can get VPC to recognize it in the preferences & Map Source recognizes it in the USB pull down menu, but the button to start the downloads remains grayed out.

To load maps into my Street Pilot, I use a iogear USB/serial adapter, set the download to start and hit the sack and hope it's done by morning. :mad:

rkevwill

08-08-2003, 09:27 PM

Yep, and I bet if we got the serial cable for the Ique, we could do the same with it too. Who knows, lets keep trying.

av8ndad

08-09-2003, 03:29 AM

Hello all.

Below is a message I posted to Usenet today about my experiences with my new iQue 3600, trying to use it with my TiBook G4 1GHz as well as Garmin's direct response on this issue.

At this point it looks like we have to hope (and request) that Mark/Space adds HotSync support to its MissingSync program.

Also, I have had the exact same experiences of everyone else here vis-a-vis trying to HotSync using VirtualPC. VPC definitely recognizes the USB cradle, but the HotSync never happens. I'll try removing the Mac version of Palm Desktop and see if that helps.

Anyway, here is my Usenet post:

This thread (and others on Usenet and elsewhere) has reflected assumptions and misconceptions and I'd like to set the record straight. I am a long-time Mac user, Windows user, Garmin GPS user and Palm OS user. I consider myself (no B.S. here, folks) to be an advanced to expert user of all of the above.

My OS of choice is Mac OSX and since, regrettably, there are far more applications written for Windows, I have been forced to find ways to run Windows apps on my Mac. Virtual PC has been a godsend in this regard, allowing me to run a multitude of Windows apps including AutoCAD and other processor-intensive programs. With a 1GHz G4 processor, there is a barely perceptible, yet totally acceptable, slowdown in certain tasks.

One of the things I have been quite successful at doing in emulation is programming handheld Garmin GPS units. I have successfully transferred LARGE MapSource files to GPSMap 176, GPSMap 176S, StreetPilot and other Garmin units. All of this was accomplished with the use of an IOGear Serial-to-USB converter (model GUC232A) and the assistance of the instructions available on the web at http://www.cycoactive.com/gps/gps_vpc.html.

Unfortunately, this method of transferring map data will not work with the iQue for several reasons. First, the iQue uses a USB cradle so there is no need for a serial adapter. Second, the iQue doesn't use the MapSource program to transfer map data. Instead, the map data is transferred during normal HotSync using an add-on to the Palm Desktop program called Map Install. This portion of Palm Desktop allows the extraction of map data from MapSource or City Navigator CDs and the creation of a Palm data file into the que (no pun intended) of items to be installed at the next HotSync.

For Mac users, this method of transferring map data should actually be easy to use since all that is needed to do is run Garmin's program and then move the data files (xxx.vpm.pdb files) from the VirtualPC hard disk to the Files to Install folder of our Home -> Documents -> Palm -> Users -> Your Name Here folder. Read on, however, to find out why this hasn't worked so far.

On the subject of transferring map data via serial port, my personal experience has been that these transfers have been flawless and totally bulletproof, and were accomplished at the same speed as if I had used an actual WinTel box.

That is, until I received my iQue.

Some of the writers on Usenet have complained that us Mac users shouldn't be whining about the lack of Mac support for the iQue when Garmin specifically states that the unit is not compatible with the Mac. Please take the time to read the following excerpts from an e-mail I wrote to Garmin today to express my dissatisfaction with the iQue. You'll see that Garmin has offered two different answers to this question (at least in my personal experience, YMMV so please don't flame me or, if you are Garmin, please don't sue me for libel as this is just my personal experience and opinion).

When I first heard about the iQue I contacted Garmin technical support to find out whether or not the unit would be Mac-compatible. I was told that map transfers would require the use of a Windows PC, but that HotSync capabilities would be, like all Palm OS devices, both Mac- and PC-compatible. Since I have been able to successfully transfer maps to several Garmin units (including GPSMap 176, GPS V, StreetPilot and others) using Virtual PC, I was not concerned about the map transfer limitation.

As a result of this initial conversation, on March 16 I placed my order with GPSCity for the iQue. I continually checked the Garmin web site for any word on the iQue's release date and anxiously waited for the day it would arrive.

In mid-June I called Garmin tech support for assistance in deciding between two models I was considering purchasing as a gift for a family member. As always, the tech support representative was very helpful. After we decided upon the right unit to purchase, we had a conversation about our shared enthusiasm, anticipation and excitement for the forthcoming iQue. I once again asked about whether or not the iQue would HotSync with a Mac and was assured that it would.

I continued to check the Garmin and GPSCity web sites for word on the iQue's ship date. As soon as I read on your web site about the unit's release I immediately called GPSCity to find out when I would receive mine.

Last Friday I received an e-mail advising that my iQue was finally on its way. Unfortunately, that was the day that I left for a two-week business trip. I instructed my secretary that when the box from GPSCity arrived, she should FedEx it to me at my hotel. The box was waiting for me at the front desk of my hotel last night and, like a child on Christmas morning, I could hardly wait to get upstairs to open it up and play with it.

My excitement quickly turned to disappointment and dejection as I tried for hours to get the iQue to HotSync with my Mac. It was as if that child on Christmas morning opened his most anticipated present only to find out that his new toy was broken.

I scoured the internet for any tips, tricks or drivers which would allow me to HotSync and finally went to bed, exhausted and depressed, well past 1:00 a.m.

I called Garmin tech support as soon as I woke up this morning and my feelings of disappointment and rejection grew. After the representative consulted with her superiors, she advised that the iQue was not Mac-compatible and that it would not HotSync with a Mac (contrary to everything I had been told up to that point). Further, I was told that even if I could get it to HotSync, Garmin would not support the use of an iQue with a Mac.

After months of anticipation and assurances, I am now a very dissatisfied and disappointed customer. Once again Garmin has shunned the Mac community even after making assurances that the iQue would HotSync with the Mac version of the Palm Desktop software (like any other Palm OS device on the market).

The bottom line is this: Garmin assured me twice that this unit would work with a Mac and it quite clearly does not. There is hope, however. The people at markspace.com (makers of TheMissingSync for Clies) say that they are hoping to add Mac support for the iQue. Stay tuned.

Hopefully this post has helped dispel some rumors and assumptions and will prove helpful to other Mac users longing for the Garmin iQue.

rkevwill

08-09-2003, 04:22 AM

Actually, after messing with it for hours myself, and after viewing your post, it MORE than appears they almost purposely made it incompatible with the mac in any way!

I am beginning to wonder if us mac users should switch to navman or Mapopolis, and see if those units will run with VPC. Both are navtech based, and both will have voice prompts in their newest incarnation.

Last Mrk

08-09-2003, 09:48 AM

I have no Palm experience but do have limited experience with Virtual PC and Map Source/Street Pilot on my new iMac using Panther OS.

My thought on this is that it is a cable related problem. Why?

I can use Delorme Street Atlas on the Mac side with my Street Pilot using a USB/Serial Adapter (http://www.gpscity.com/gps/brados/0813.2.9832284464920479247/usb4adapter.html) I purchased at GPS City. Street Atlas recognizes my Street Pilot fine and I can transfer routes and tracks back and forth etc.

However this same USB/Serial Adapter will not work while using Virtual PC. With Virtual PC I have to use a iogear USB/Serial Adapter. That works fine within VPC but not within Mac OS. What's the difference? Both cables have the proper software loaded within VPC but only the iogear works.

Maybe if someone can tell us what the difference is between these 2 USB/Serial Adapters someone can figure out how to fix this iQue problem.

rustons

08-09-2003, 10:29 AM

Super post av8ndad, I appreciate the detailed info and it reflects my initial and continued problems with the mac and the IQue.

My big problem now though is that I have fallen in love with this device in the last 2 weeks and have simply broken down and loaded the maps with an old PC. Worked fine and I will follow the antics of people like yourself, who seem much more qualified than I to solve the Mac problems.

I do look for forward to the day when I can hotsync with my Mac. I trust that day will come given the persistance of the Mac community.

rkevwill

08-09-2003, 05:17 PM

Ok, this is off the subject, but only us mac guys will appreciate this. When I was loading up all the software on the Ique, with my OLD (1998) PC laptop, the combination of an external USB HD, and the Ique, finally terminally fried the powersupply in the laptop. Its been acting up for some time, and now its dead. Not worth getting fixed, for sure. Fortunately, I had a heavy duty Dell server sitting idle downstairs, and I installed WinXP on it, replacing the idle Linux. (major overkill for a desktop here, (dual 1.4 gig, 2 40 gig HD's, 1.5 gig of ram) It works just fine, and I loaded everything.

Here is my quandry. Now, I need a new laptop. I must have it to remotely access the office (a PC app). My problem now is, do I purchase one of the nifty 12 inch Vaio's, as my MAIN reason for the laptop is remote access, or do I purchase a 12 inch G4 and use VPC as I do on my G4 Tower? actually, the vaio is a bit less expensive, but.......gawd I hate buying another PC. And most of all, I hate spending the money:( In addition of course, I may need to be able to connect to projectors for presentations with powerpoint etc, soooooo......

rkevwill

08-09-2003, 06:07 PM

Av8, ya know, I wonder.....it appears quite likely, as someone else said, part of the problem may be in the cable/cradle. I remember something said, about the USB card programmer for the Street Pilot had an incompatible cable with the mac, they may be using the same thing here.

If someone has a spare palm cradle from another model, it sure would be neat to find out if it will connect with THAT cradle, at least from the synchronize desktop standpoint! It is after all, supposed to be the universal connector!

I have tried to synchronize just the desktop (after reinstalling palm software on the mac) with no success. Won't establish a connection.

albritton

08-09-2003, 07:54 PM

i tried to use a usb to universal palm connection cable ( palm branded ) instead of the supplied cradle with no difference in sync action.

rkevwill

08-09-2003, 08:35 PM

I can confirm that myself now. I went and bought a synch cable, without the dock, and it would not synch on the mac either, but did on the PC.

Looks like they have something internal in the unit that prevents it from working with the mac.

Again, it almost looks like its there purposely.

Last Mrk

08-09-2003, 09:32 PM

Forgetting about the GPS functions for a minute, can I assume that even if you use iSync and Palm Desktop 4.1 for Mac you can't get anything working through the Mac as you can with other palm devices?

I know trying this will not solve the map loading problems but it may help zero in on what is the problem.

rkevwill

08-09-2003, 10:00 PM

Exactly, you cant get it to synch with any of the functions like address book or datebook or anything, on either VPC or direct with the Mac. It won't connect with a mac in any fashion.

The only other thing that might work, is to get the garmin serial cable/cradle, and see if it can work like some of us do with the street Pilot.

Frankly, I am watching the navman and mapopolis software for their new voice offerings for palm, and considering selling this down the road and getting a tungsten C and the aforementioned navigation suites. Its a sweet product, but its not worth the hassle, and it seems they are vehemently anti-mac to me.

rkevwill

08-09-2003, 10:09 PM

actually Mrk, I should have clarified. I don't use Isynch for the palm, as I want to use palm desktop or Now Contact/up to date, and the Isynch palm conduit turns those off.

Therefore, I didn't try Isynch for the palm.

Last Mrk

08-09-2003, 10:16 PM

Are you also using the iSync Palm Conduit? (http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/isyncpalmconduit.html)

I don't have a PDA nor have I ever had one, but I do want this one, so if all these questions seem stupid, please forgive. :cool:

(I think you answered as I was typing)

rkevwill

08-09-2003, 10:19 PM

think I clarified it with my last post, but we may have crossed. No, I don't want to use the Isync conduit, as the mac native address book and calendar is not nearly as powerful as what I need. The isync conduit turns off the palm desktop conduit, and its also not compatible with the Now contact/up to date conduit. It basically takes over all conduit tasks.

Love Isync, but not for my address and contact stuff.

av8ndad

08-10-2003, 01:41 AM

I am glad to see that my post was well-received here, although I am saddened to see that you are all having the same problems. I had hoped that using a cradle/cable other than that supplied by Garmin would have done the trick, but it looks like (from your posts) that it won't.

RKEVWILL said:
> Its a sweet product, but its not worth
> the hassle, and it seems they are
> vehemently anti-mac to me.

Sadly, I am starting to think you are right. I'm giving this issue about one more week to see how it shakes out with Garmin and/or Missing Sync. If nothing changes, I think I'll be returning my iQue and looking again at other solutions. :mad:

rkevwill

08-10-2003, 02:30 AM

ya know, its funny. Palm seems to be a mac supportive company to a great extent. Even Dell advertises palms on their site. And what crazier is, I can take a pocketPC and transfer files and programs all day long on VPC. What in the WORLD is up with that Garmin?

If you have not all seen me mention this before, Navman and Mapopolis are coming out with products that are Navtech based, (which means with voice prompts) for the palm and OS5. This opens up the Tungstens to us.

I will be keeping my Ique for the time being, but more than likely, I will purchase a Tungsten down the road and try one of those other products. And if they are capable and usable on my mac, then its Ebay time for the Ique.

Last Mrk

08-10-2003, 10:36 AM

If you get a Tungsten and use Navman or Mapopolis for GPS, you will be using Palm Desktop 4.1 for Mac, Right?

Are Navman and Mapopolis compatible with Palm Desktop for the Mac?

rkevwill

08-10-2003, 11:59 AM

They are not out yet, in their final form, so I have no idea about the final software.

Remember though, we are talking about Native Palms here, yes, they work with the mac.

Mapopolis and Navman are hardware and software that go ON the palm. I assume their software is PC only, and will have to be installed using a PC or VPC. And again, remember, we are talking using Palm's native name brand hardware here, not a 3rd parties.

peterbklyn

08-10-2003, 12:00 PM

I am so glad I found this thread. Thanks for all the valuable info. I too wrote Garmin months ago regarding Ique compatibility and got the same response as some of you, that it would work like any other palm with mac and mapsource is not supported. I have been waiting for months for this product and am now so dissappointed as I really thought it was going to be the answer. I think that we should all make a concerted effort to voice our displeasure with Garmin and with Palm. Garmin because they have mislead us(I still have it in writing) and palm because they have liscenced their os,which is mac compatible in most other respects, to someone who made it incompatible. Although I am angry and resentful of Garmin right now I am hopeful that a solution will come. It might be useful to discuss what functionality everyone would like to have with the Ique and a mac. Doing everything through VPC is too low a standard as far as I'm concerned. It has to be desirable for somone with programming experience to figure out.
Enough venting for now. I don't think that I can help with a solution for now so I am not going to get an Ique yet. I hope that those that have them will continue to try and let us know. Here are a few tidbits of info that I may be able to contribute: Elswhere in the forums mac users that bought Acer s60s found them to be incompatible with macs and they are palm os. Has anyone contacted the people at www.gpsy.com to see if they are going to work on ique compatibility with macs? As this seems to be a mac to palm issue right now I'm not sure they will have the answers but you never know.

rkevwill

08-10-2003, 12:15 PM

Lets make sure to not confuse this though. Its not a Mac to PALM issue, its a Mac to Garmin issue.

Palms per se are recognized just fine by macs and virtual PC.

rkevwill

08-10-2003, 06:54 PM

I may be reaching here, but.....I do see the Ique can be sync'd via a modem or network. I wonder if that would be a solution. Anyone have a palm sled modem or anytype of network interface?

Last Mrk

08-10-2003, 07:46 PM

rkevwill

In an earlier post you said "Yep, and I bet if we got the serial cable for the Ique, we could do the same with it too. Who knows, lets keep trying."

Somehow I think you may have something here, but I'm afraid it might be quite slow.

I think this may work with the iogear usb/serial adapter and Garmin iQue HotSync Cradle with Serial Connection. (http://www.gpscity.com/gps/brados/0650.3.7186972195914754775/iquehotsyser.html)

rkevwill

08-10-2003, 08:04 PM

Well, if someone wants to spend the few extra bucks to get one, who knows. I haven't tried to make VPC think the USB is a com port yet, that might be something to try.

Last Mrk

08-10-2003, 08:14 PM

I know what you mean. Sure hate throwing $$$ at This and still get failures. :(

rkevwill

08-11-2003, 11:04 PM

I spoke to Garmin today, just to see if a couple of things were compatible.

First, the palm modem, or any with the universal connector on the bottom should be compatible.

Next, they assured me that any dock made with the universal connector should work. That leads me to wonder.....if the serial connection might be the ticket. When I get back from a trip in a few days, I am going to go to Compusa, and buy a palm dock with serial I saw, and try the old IOgear serial adapter trick AV8, myself, and others were successful with on the Street Pilot.

Last but not least, Think about this one. IF....you have an old palm with infrared, and you can use it with your mac, even Garmin can't stop you from synchronizing your address and calendar data via Infrared with the Ique! (I tried this today, with an old palm that was a friends, and it worked just fine) Just do your addys and calendars on the old palm, and beam the info to the Ique. (lots of old palms out there CHEAP)

Gawd I love a challenge.

lycestra

08-11-2003, 11:04 PM

I know there will be support at some point, because I have faith in the Mac community, and Garmin's stuff is really good, it's just a pity they have to disregard part of the market demand.

Anyway, here's what I know about iQue and the Mac support.

1) Garmin did say that there would be Mac support for at least the Palm side.

2) Apparantly, they did not/could not pull thru on providing this support with the initial shipping product.

3) Palm OS, despite what we'd like to believe, is not inherently compatible with the Mac OS version of Palm Desktop. Case in point: Sony's Cli…~. I believe it should be supported, but as a programmer myself, I realize it is likely more complex than corporate ill will.

4) Such PalmOS devices are often supported on Mac thru third-party solutions.

5) I have contacted one such company. They commented that they have received many concerned e-mails from Mac users who now own iQues. The company felt confident that support would be available thru Garmin, however now are pursuing adding iQue support thru their own software. They also told me to check back in a few weeks.

So fear not, fellow Mac users. Support will arrive soon enough.

And even after seeing this thread, I have ordered an iQue, even tho the newest PC i have at my disposal is a base Pentium 1. :)

Cheers.

rkevwill

08-11-2003, 11:15 PM

Well, I don't personally believe Garmin will EVER support the mac. Thats my opinion. As far as the company you were speaking about, GOOD for them, and they will sure get my business and support:)

Frankly, after playing with this thing quite a bit, and taking it on a little test trip on sunday, I like it:) I like it a LOT. I especially like the "route too" feature for addresses, and for hotels, restaurants, etc etc. Know what else is way cool? The ability to draw a box around an area and it zooms in on it. Great product so far:)

My pc laptop (which I thought died, but resurrected for the time being) can't handle all the data, and usb drain. However, fortunately I had an old server that I stuck XP on, and that serves for loading maps to cards.

We will see what we will see, I hope you are right, but don't hold your breath on Garmin supporting us in any way shape or form. Of course, in the end, I hope I am wrong

Last Mrk

08-11-2003, 11:16 PM

I sure hope you're right.

Are you saying this will be accomplished without having to use Virtual PC which many have trouble getting USB to work on?

As a side note. If I were to buy a used PC Laptop, what would you recommend as a minimum system which I could use just for the iQue. (Can't believe I'm even thinking this way) :)

Or maybe even a cheap desktop which I could hide in the basement. LOL

rkevwill

08-11-2003, 11:18 PM

Dunno Mrk, re: the sync with addy and calendar. VPC is a must for the map data though, no choice at all there.

lycestra

08-11-2003, 11:25 PM

I know (hope) that support will come for the Palm half, either by Garmin, or, more likely, a third-party. The GPS half, yeah, I doubt there will ever be support under native mac, even thru third-party. But it's my hope that I'd only need to connect to it extremely rarely (like, once :)).

VPC support would be nice, for those who use it. Tho, since the iQue works with PCs, maybe its the emulation that isn't working quite right. It happens.

/me being devil's advocate/discussion instigator

Last Mrk

08-11-2003, 11:34 PM

If all the syncing from Mac Address Book and iCal can be done by the PocketMac (http://www.pocketmac.net/) guys so a Pocket PC works like a Mac, you would sure think it could be done on a Palm wouldn't you?

rkevwill

08-11-2003, 11:40 PM

Well, my guess is Missing Synch or Pocket Map may well do a fix for synching Ical and Address book to the Ique, unless its a hardware issue internally. That of course does not help me though. I need it to synch with Palms own desktop from the mac (and maybe also Now Contact).

The Mapping software is another matter. Thats PC software that has to be loaded with a PC (or virtual PC) no choice on that one.

lycestra

08-11-2003, 11:47 PM

I think Missing Sync is a plugin for Palm Desktop's HotSync. Effectively, the PDA becomes a Palm-like device, and is thus also iSync-compatible as well. Any confirmation on this?

Does anyone know how the maps are transfered? Are they thru a private protocol? Or might it use a palm protocol? (I think i saw an article saying that maps are clipped from the CD, and compiled into a palm package, but I'll beleive that when i see it. Compile on a (V)PC, install thru mac?)

Any insights?

rkevwill

08-11-2003, 11:57 PM

The Palm Desktop program that comes with the Ique, has a *load maps* icon, below the standard install icon. It does a "wizard" whereby you select the map sections you want, then they are put into the palm add folder, which is loaded on the next sync.

Looks Proprietary to me, and built in the desktop program. If you COULD separate the maps from that step, then they could be loaded via the normal palm avenue, but thats beyond my knowledge.

Last Mrk

08-11-2003, 11:58 PM

I just got this E-mail from Connectix.

"Dear Valued Connectix Customer,

As part of the Microsoft acquisition of the Virtual PC and Virtual Server technology and products, Connectix is in the final stages of transitioning the business to Microsoft, and plans to complete this transition by August 15, 2003. After August 15, Microsoft will oversee all future Virtual PC and Virtual Server product development, sales and support.

Virtual PC for Mac: On August 12, 2003 Microsoft will launch Virtual PC for Mac - 6.1, which will be available through most major retailers. Customers who have Connectix Virtual PC for Mac 6.0 can get a free update to Microsoft Virtual PC for Mac 6.1 at http://www.microsoft.com/mac Customers who have Connectix Virtual PC for Mac 5.0 are eligible for the upgrade pricing.

We would like to thank you for your support and use of Connectix' award-winning products. We are confident that through Microsoft both you and future users will benefit from using virtual machine solutions.

Sincerely,

Connectix Corporation"

Lets hope they fix the USB probelms.

Unbelievable. They send me an e-mail with a bad link.

GrandShadow

08-12-2003, 12:06 AM

Having recently purchased a large Class A motorhome - and being a Mac user - I too thought perhaps this one would work with a Mac (but not for map loading).

Now, I simply will not purchase the iQue. If they don't want my business, then I don't want to deal with them.

Thank goodness we have the internet and I was able see the problems Mac owners have been encountering. It made my decision very easy - even if it means I go without.

GS

lycestra

08-12-2003, 12:44 AM

Mrk, the bad link is because of the '.' at the end. :)

Last Mrk

08-12-2003, 01:05 AM

Thanks for the tip. I fixed it.

I was feeling like an abandoned child. :)

yolk

08-12-2003, 05:34 PM

Any luck with the new Virtual PC 6.1? I'm also done clearing diskspace on the old PC laptop, but am really hoping for a Mac based solution...

Last Mrk

08-12-2003, 05:51 PM

Unfortunately it doesn't seem that they fixed the USB problems.

This is their description of what changes they made.

"What's new in this version:

Re-branding changes were made to both the Virtual PC application and the Virtual PC Additions to reflect the transition of Virtual PC from a Connectix-branded product to a Microsoft-branded product.

Fixed an incompatibility problem between Virtual PC and the Apple Airport Extreme card. (Fixed in Virtual PC for Mac Version 6.0.2.)

Fixed an issue that prevented users from properly drawing arcs in Java version 1.4.1.

Added an AppleScript to enable a slower "compatibility mode" for installing software applications in a guest operating system that rely on copy-protected files or self-modifying code. Do not enable this setting unless you are having problems installing a particular piece of software. If this is the case, you can turn on the Compatibility Mode for the software installation and then turn it off once the installation has finished. Note that this mode causes the guest operating system and Virtual PC to run much slower, but it might allow greater compatibility for installing some applications.

Fixed an issue involving auto-restore of PCs under Mac OS 9.2.2."

lycestra

08-12-2003, 06:04 PM

I wouldn't expect MS to have fixed those already. Rebranding, i'd expect.

there are also speculations flying that VPC will only support MS OSes. No Linux, QNX, or OS/2. But that's mostly anti-MS zealots spitting their conspiracy theories.

I wouldn't put it past them tho. :/

Maybe an opening for Yellow Box. (rumored name of the x86 emulation layer long ago in Rhapsody)

King Rhoton

08-12-2003, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by lycestra
Maybe an opening for Yellow Box. (rumored name of the x86 emulation layer long ago in Rhapsody)

Actually, I think you mean "Red Box". The "Yellow Box" is part of the Cocoa API that was ported to x86 and briefly being pitched as a way to run MacOS/X binaries on Win32 systems. It was marketed, but I'm not sure if it was actually ever sold.

rkevwill

08-12-2003, 06:39 PM

Based on my experience using VPC forever, and working like crazy with the garmin street pilot inconsistencies etc, I do not believe the Garmin Incompatability has anything to do with VPC. I believe it is a hardware issue. (note, I have NO basis for my thoughts, as my experience in electrical engineering was relegated to Lionel Trains)

Anyway, Once you figure out that some shared hardware with the mac needs to be changed to the PC side only (turned off on the mac side) and don't try to have USB active on more than one Virtual machine (I have three Os's in VPC), USB works just fine for me on virtually any device I put on there. I think many of the problems are just user education issues. The garmin issue is definitely not. I can even use a card programmer from a PC vendor with no problem. Not the Garmin Street pilot card programmer though. That is without a doubt a garmin proprietary hardware issue IMHO.

I believe the same case can be made for the Ique. Remember, most palms work JUST fine (note I said palm, not sony etc) with macs.

When I get back from my Tahoe trip next week, I am gonna purchase a palm serial dock and try that with the Iogear adapter just for kicks. Since it comes with a mac adapter (for old macs I guess) it won't be wasted. I can keep it down here at the office, and my Ique one at home. (or if it doesn't work at all, I may get frustrated and simply return it)

Last Mrk

08-12-2003, 11:57 PM

If you can get that iQue Hotsync Cradle With Serial Connection (http://www.gpscity.com/gps/brados/02242.2.7143337817720111014/iquehotsyser.html) working with an Iogear adapter like it does with my Street Pilot, I will PayPal you half the $$ for pioneering this experiment.

If it does work, it will probably be slow but I can live with that. Once you figure out what maps you need, this doesn't have to be done all that much.

If that fails, maybe someone can market pre programed SD cards with requested maps installed. :D

What is the short cable that is next to the serial connection in this picture for? http://www.gpscity.com/g/i/s/iquehotsyser.jpg

lycestra

08-13-2003, 12:38 AM

I already have a serial sync cable (not cradle) on the way for another purpose, but that won't ship until the end of the month. I also have the (pathetic) Palm USB Connection kit laying around. I say pathetic because Mac OS X has poor support for it. plug and play and plug again, and the system doesn't let me use it as a normal serial port. Palm Desktop only. I can try that out, and see what happens. but it doubt it would work.

I can report what i find when i get those.

lycestra

08-13-2003, 12:44 AM

the short dongle grips me as the AC connection. Just like other cradles, they don't get power from USB or serial, they have a seperate power source. But the power can still attach to the palm thru the data connector. So the have an extra dongle on the side for connecting the power adapter while you have it in the cradle. or don't connect power if you dont want to. I know this his how the Palm V did it.

In the case of the iQue, power may be able to be connected thru the data cable (or cradle), or thru a seperate standard connector, exactly the same as this dongle has. so plug the AC adaptor into the cradle or the ique itself. The cradle probably blocks the built-in AC jack otherwise.

rkevwill

08-13-2003, 12:44 AM

the short cable is for power via the keyboard bus.

I won't be getting the Garmin cradle, but rather, the Palm cradle I saw at CompUsa. Garmin assured me they would work. Their reasoning? Because other palms can be programmed via the Garmin cradle. (not real scientific ROFL) .... and, a further point to believe the conflict with macs is a hardware or software problem in the unit itself, as opposed to the cable or VPC itself.

no paypal needed <g> Hero adulation is payment enough. We need to get Av8 in on this experiment. It was his postings on the VPC site I believe (or another GPS site) that got me going on the Garmin Street Pilot with IOgear adapter, after many frustrating tries with the Keyspan adapter.

rkevwill

08-13-2003, 12:47 AM

AHHHHHH!!!!! thats for an AC adapter!!! See, my inexperience with PDA's is showing! I stand corrected! I thought it was for a keyboard bus like serial connected cameras and card programmers.

mac4me

08-15-2003, 05:34 AM

This article was found on Macintouch.com today.

http://www.macitynet.it/macprof/archivio/test/haicomcfe.shtml

andyland

08-15-2003, 11:50 AM

Okay, I couldn't resist the iQue or the challange that using it with a Mac will pose. It arrives Monday.

Now, any luck with an iogear and serial cable/cradle? May as well pursue the Mac/VPC solution first.

If not, does the Mapsource app work well enough with VPC? I know it doesn't connect with the iQUe, but I have heard that a full copy of Mapsource will store the maps to a .pdb file that I could drag to an SD card with an SD card reader/programmer? It's reportadly much faster to transfer maps directly to the card, so not being able to connect with the iQue is no big deal.

As for syncing the iQue, until MarkSpace works their magic I will just beam anything I want from my Clie NX70V, which I am keeping as my main PDA.

If all else fails, I'll just pickup a Windoze laptop, dump the entire US onto 4 256 mb cards, and return the laptop.

More than one way to skin a cat, I always say.

Andy

yolk

08-15-2003, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by andyland
If not, does the Mapsource app work well enough with VPC? I know it doesn't connect with the iQUe, but I have heard that a full copy of Mapsource will store the maps to a .pdb file that I could drag to an SD card with an SD card reader/programmer? It's reportadly much faster to transfer maps directly to the card, so not being able to connect with the iQue is no big deal.

I believe the Mapsource included with the iQue is not the full copy, but according to this post by CinderK (http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=91393#post91393), Mapinstall will still generate a map file that you can transfer to the SD card. I'm going to get a SD card reader if this method works !

rkevwill

08-15-2003, 01:46 PM

All I can say is I sure hope you folks keep us up to date on that path. Remember though, the MAIN problem is, how do you get the info to the Ique via the mac? It won't synch with mac native, and won't synch with VPC, soooooo......

I did purchase a palm serial cradle and when I return home from tahoe (this hotel room broadband is pretty cool btw) I will be playing with that avenue. At the very least, if it connects with serial we should be able to transfer the files either natively or with VPC.

lycestra

08-15-2003, 09:33 PM

the post above did make me question one thing: NEMA support. It is clearly stated that the iQue doesn't support it. (being a simple antenna add-on to another device, like a computer)

But, afaik, there are some programming APIs for accessing GPS info (coordinates, etc. not the mapping software?), and control the side scroll wheel. So, what I'm getting at is, it should be possible for someone to write a palm program that uses that API to generate serial NEMA-protocol communications, making the system capable of turning into a dumb antenna.

if you'd ever want the iQue to be a simple peripheral.

I have no idea how to do it, but for those who go for that sort of thing, yet another of those possible support things, if you are patient, or capable of writing apps for palm.

Can anyone explain the whole SD back route? is that just mounting the SD card on a mac thru a USB or PCMCIA adaptor, and copying a package to it?

/me counting chickens before they create software to sync my iCal.

still waiting on mine. patience...

hafken

08-16-2003, 09:18 AM

Hey everyone, I just wanted to let you know that I've found a partial solution to using the ique with a mac - i've successfully done the initial installation and even loaded a few detailed maps by using a USB to IR adapter.

See my separate post for the details:

http://www.pdastreet.com/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=23839

danham

08-18-2003, 05:29 PM

If there are USB conflicts with Palm software, in addition to removing all traces of Mac Palm Desktop, there are still two methods to use USB w/VPC. One uses the Mac's USB drivers; the other requires installing them in Windows in VPC. In general I've had better luck with the former.

Has anybody tried both methods with the iQ?

-dan

Last Mrk

08-18-2003, 06:31 PM

There are no native OSX "drivers" for Garmin products as they do not support Mac. So because of this, I couldn't use this method to get my Garmin Data Card Programmer (http://d2774266.u40.infinology.com/electronics.php/Mode/related/AsinSearch/B000050FZA/name/Garmin%2520USB%2520Data%2520Card%2520Programmer/browse/172282/page/1) to work on my Mac.

As far as I know no one has had any luck getting the Garmin Data Card Programmer (http://d2774266.u40.infinology.com/electronics.php/Mode/related/AsinSearch/B000050FZA/name/Garmin%2520USB%2520Data%2520Card%2520Programmer/browse/172282/page/1) to work with Virtual PC.

Because of this, I can't assume that the iQue USB HotSync Cradle will work with Virtual PC when the Data Card Programmer (http://d2774266.u40.infinology.com/electronics.php/Mode/related/AsinSearch/B000050FZA/name/Garmin%2520USB%2520Data%2520Card%2520Programmer/browse/172282/page/1) has not been able to work with VPC by anyone I know about.

danham

08-18-2003, 07:03 PM

Mrk,

I may not have been clear. OS X requires no drivers to run some USB devices -- you just plug and play. So in theory the iQ cradle =could= function that way.

If that doesn't work, then you can install Garmin's drivers in VPC and make sure to disable any trace of USB use on the Mac side.

I've used both methods to run a Garmin GPS III+ and xfer maps. The former worked better, but both worked somewhat.

-dan

Last Mrk

08-18-2003, 07:13 PM

I'm able to use Map Source 5 to load maps etc. into my Street Pilot using VPC but I have to use an iOgear USB Serial adapter to do so.

I bought the Data Card Programmer hoping to speed up the process but as of now it was $$ wasted.

How do you disable or remove traces of USB devices in OSX?

ebisix

08-18-2003, 07:14 PM

Are you sure about that? It was my understanding that Mac OS X only seems plug-and-play because it comes with drivers for most USB devices.

I might be wrong about this though.

Edit: Someone posted while I was writing this. My post is referring to the post written by danham.

danham

08-18-2003, 08:03 PM

OK, bad on me. I thought my Keyspan serial dapter was plug-n-play, but it does have an installed driver.

So to remove that, use its Assistant to uninstall the USB driver. For USB devices that do not have an uninstall, delete 'em manually. Remove the Mac Palm Desktop software in its entirety, as noted by others.

Then in VPC try using USB port emulation first. See if under Settings the cradle/iQue show up in the window where you check to enable USB.

If that does not work, install and use the Windows drivers and disable USB entirely in VPC settings.

What I'm wondering is whether people who have had failure to sync -- maps or regular Palm stuff -- are having a USB collision caused by VPC and the Mac not agreeing on who's using USB when and where.

It took me a while to sort this out for my GPS III+ with MapSource.

-dan

av8ndad

08-19-2003, 03:25 PM

Hello all.

Here's an update on my experiences (read: frustrations) with trying to get the iQue to work with the Mac.

I experimented today with using the cradle (USB) from a Palm 515. The connection to the Palm is exactly the same. Here is my report:

I tried it with OS 9 and it didn't work. It said, "Drivers needed for the USB device 'Palm Handheld' are not available. Would you like to look for these devices on the internet?" I said yes, but it never found them and said that I should check with the manufacturer.

I tried it with VPC and had the exact same results I had with the Garmin cradle. VPC does see the Palm connected to the USB port, but it does not trigger the HotSync process.

I then tried it with OSX on my G4 TiBook and the latest version of Palm Desktop. The Garmin simply would not connect with the computer.

Also, several of you have wondered about how to get the maps from the VPC side of your machine into your iQue. Here is what I know about that:

Map Install is started from a button on the special Windows version of the Palm Desktop application which comes with the iQue. Clicking the button opens a separate application called Map Install (MapInstall.exe). I ran the application using VPC and created map files. I am sure that I can transfer these to the Palm using the install portion of the Palm Desktop, once the Mac version is working. Otherwise, I could use an SD card reader and transfer them directly. This is not really a concern.

At this point I am very frustrated. I don't want to keep something around which simply does not work. I am thinking of returning the product to GPSCity and then deciding whether to buy a new Palm, a Treo Palm/phone combo, or just waiting for the iQue to work with the Mac.

Hope this is helpful to everyone.

andyland

08-19-2003, 04:15 PM

av8ndad,

Perhaps you missed my post about how I have had success syncing with the iQue from Mac OS-X, so here it is again, hope it helps:

I did it. And it was easy, thanks to those in this forum that have gone before me.

Successful hotsync via IOGear USB-Serial and a Serial Sync cable with the Palm Universal connector.

Successful (and fast) map transfer via SD card reader/writer.

Here's a few details...

1 GHZ PowerBook G4
Mac OS 10.2.6
Virtual PC 6 / XP Home
Dazzle 8-in-1 Card Reader/Writer
256 MB Viking SD card

Download the OS-X IOGear driver from the IOGear site. You do not need or want the Windoze driver.

Install the driver, restart, and plug in the adapter-cable-iQue before launching VPC. This way the Mac OS owns the port and will play nice with VPC. Launch VPC, and make sure the USB device is not enabled. Select Com port 1 and switch it from modem to USBSerial. I restarted Windoze at this point just to be sure. After the restart I just hit the Hot Sync button on the iQue and the sync started immediately. The first sync probably took 10-15 minutes as it was downloading the basemap and other apps. Not the speedy sync I'm used to with my Cie and OS-X, but better than the IR sync. Anyway from now on I'll just be using sync to add locations via the address book, so it should go pretty fast.

As for downloading maps to the SD card, I launched the Palm Desktop on VPC, selected 215 MB worth of map and hit go. It took a loooooong time for it prepare the map, almost 2 hours. Hey, no one said VPC would win any speed records. By this time I was ready to get back to the Mac OS, so I copied the file to the VPC Shared folder, quit VPC, plugged in a Dazzle 8-in-1 reader/writer and drug the file to the Garmin folder on the SD card. This took only about 4 minutes for the 215 MB file. Ejected the card, stuck it in the iQue, fired up the Map app, and all was good.

I can't say that you need to do exactly what I did, but it worked for me and was pretty painless.

The cool thing about having to muck around and figure these things out for ourselves is that we discovered a much faster way to download maps - the card reader/writer.

Andy

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av8ndad

08-19-2003, 04:34 PM

Andy:

I saw your post on this subject, and I am glad to hear that someone has finally been able to sync their iQue with a Mac. Unfortunately, your solution won't solve my problems. I need to be able to synch on the Mac side, not on the VPC side.

I use Now UpToDate and Contact at my office and share calendars and contact files with my co-workers. My only computers are Macs and I can't see buying the Windoze version of Now just for synching. Plus (and perhaps most importantly), I am not willing to put up with slow syncs via VPC just because of what I see as a flaw in Garmin's PDA.

Also, I am sure that I can transfer maps to the iQue as per my previous post, so I really don't see a need to use Palm Desktop for Windoze at all. All I need to use is MapInstall.exe.

So for me it all boils down to this: If the iQue won't sync in Mac OSX, then it goes back to GPSCity.

andyland

08-19-2003, 05:06 PM

av8ndad,

OK, you want it all.

Did you try OS-X sync through Palm Desktop with the IOGear/serial sync cable as opposed to a USB cradle or cable? Maybe I'll try it when I get home tonight.

Andy

av8ndad

08-19-2003, 05:37 PM

Yes! I want it all! :D

I don't have a serial cradle, but I do have the ioGear USB-to-Serial adapter. If you try this and find out that it works, then we are all in business!

I will be anxiously awaiting your word on whether or not this will work.

Thanks!

rkevwill

08-19-2003, 11:41 PM

With my fiddling around, I found a way the Ique synchs natively with OSX Palm desktop. This is not a final *gold* version yet, with everything worked out, but here goes. (good news for you and me I think Av8)

Heres the hardware.

Palm HotSynch Cradle serial. (this is the standard palm cradle, with serial connector. It comes with a mac adapter, which I am not using)

IOGear serial to usb adapter, with the latest driver. (it now is called usb to pda adapter for whatever reason)

Settings on the Ique

HotSync connections, Cradle/Cable
Conduit setup, I have only Address, Card Info, date Book, Memo Pad checked.

Palm Desktop settings,

Under the HotSync Menu, Click the Connection settings and click Palm Connect, USB, AND USB Serial port. (I have not played around yet with not choosing one or the other, but what seems to have happened is when I clicked the Palm Connect, THAT was the trick! (along with the IOgear and the standard palm serial cradle)

Interestingly enough, it filled in my Mac/Palm address book and datebook with the info I entered into the Ique with my PC, and THEN backed up everything from the palm. Not sure why, since I had very few things selected as I said above. I imagine it was due to my settings in Mac/Palm desktop.

What this means is, it looks like as long as we have the map files from VPC, we can now bring them over to the mac side and load them simply by syncing!

I have not tried anything yet with NUDC, but this at least is a start!

BigBearLA

08-20-2003, 12:39 AM

Dear rkevwill, av8ndad, Last Mrk and everyone,

Thank you for all of your informative yet discouraging posts regarding Garmin, iQues and Macs. I was the one who posted the original question about Macs and iQues.

Like a lot of you, I've been waiting for this PDA for a half a year. I've put off buying other PDA's for that long, and it looks like I'm still going to wait longer. I need a PDA that will easily and regularly accommodate Now Contact and Up-To-Date as well as MS Office files from a Mac; One that can do maps, points of interest, local services and routes. GPS voice navigation would be great as well because I work in a business that sometimes requires us to be on the road.

The option, as some have mentioned, is get a cheap PC for syncing. But that seems like an expensive route to go just for the opportunity to use an iQue. I just might make the plunge for a Tungsten C and, as Kevin suggested, perhaps see what Navman or Mapopolis have in store for Palms for voice-navigation - hoping, too, that the software and hardware from those companies is Mac-compatible or at least VPC compatible. I will check out those sites and see what's expected and when.

Does anyone know if Garmin has any plans to include blue-tooth in other subsequent versions of the iQue which might make syncing easier?

In the meantime, I will keep reading and keep my fingers crossed that solutions for the iQue are found through your persistent efforts and 3rd party companies.

Thanks again and all the best to you iQue/Mac pioneers.

Ted / BigBearLA@aol.com

andyland

08-20-2003, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by av8ndad
Yes! I want it all! :D

I don't have a serial cradle, but I do have the ioGear USB-to-Serial adapter. If you try this and find out that it works, then we are all in business!

I will be anxiously awaiting your word on whether or not this will work.

Thanks!

You want it, you got it. Get your hands on a serial cradle or cable and you will be set.

Contrary to rkevwill, I did not need to select Palm Connect or anything besides USBSerial. I did a fresh install of Palm Desktop on my G4 iMac, selected USBSerial as the connection type and hit the hotsync button on the iQue, and boom - instant hotsync.

Sorry I don't use NUDC anymore, but there is no reason it shouldn't work as long as Palm Desktop syncs happily.

So I guess we just need VPC to generate the map files, and then transfer them with a SD card reader/writer. From what I hear, syncing the map files is slow and unreliable, so I am sticking with the card method.

Life is good.

Andy

rkevwill

08-20-2003, 01:50 AM

First, read my post from earlier this evening. In addition, note that now I have successfully sync'd natively from the mac, to NUDC within OSX. I will be trying over the next day or two to sync with 9.1 from my older mac I keep at work, primarily to do my contacts on. NOTE...now up to date syncs flawlessly, and quickly. Now contact seems a bit buggy on the sync, but I think that has nothing to do with the Ique, but the NOW sync software, or the LARGE (underlined) contact file I have. I am going to play with that a bit, and see what happens. So far, my machine gives me the spinning ball after a bit, but when I checked the contact file within the palm, it was all finished. (clarification, this was with Now Contact). I am not sure what causes this, as I actually had to do a hard re-boot to get rid of the spinning ball, BUT....it Syncs!!!

Make sure if you try to sync with NUDC, that you carefully read their instructions. You MUST install their sync software after all the palm stuff is installed, as theirs moves stuff out of the appropriate folders to get NUDC to sync properly.

I have MUCH more reading to do, as more than likely I am missing something, but it does work! One other thing, in the sync options for Now Up to date, there is a choice as to which palm contact version to sync to. I checked the version on the ique, and it is 4+, so I picked that one. As I said, Up to date sync'd flawlessly.

IMHO, the ique is not the end all for everyone Palm. No current bluetooth support, no wifi, etc. Perhaps a Tungsten C (which doesn't support bluetooth yet either) with the newer mapopolis is a neat trick, who knows. All I know is I took the Ique to Tahoe to play with, and loved it. After considering sending it back, I am gonna keep it. My guess is a bluetooth card is forthcoming one day. In addition, I can use a cable to my cell to get on the web, or a sled cradle modem to dial on wired phones. Neither of which I have tried yet.

Im gonna keep this one and play with it some more. My gain, Ebay's loss. (btw, frankly I was more interested in getting this to sync with NUDC on the mac, then getting the maps on. I have a spare PC to do all the setup, but now that we have the sync problem solved, my guess is someone here can write a nice directional guide to install the maps with VPC and the serial solution I found that works.

rkevwill

08-20-2003, 01:53 AM

wow, it didn't work for me at all, till I selected the palm connect. Dunno why, perhaps it was your fresh install that did the trick. Dunnit really matter though, as.........

IT WORKS!!!! <g>

rkevwill

08-20-2003, 02:02 AM

BTW Andy, from what I have read, I think you hit the nail on the head. For folks that want to do the whole thing on the mac, the card reader definitely seems the way to go. Faster speed, less hassle. Fortunately I have a mongo PC downstairs I can use to load maps with, and it does it pretty quick. No real need for me to use it much, as my plan is to keep the midwest area on a 128 card, and load big trips on a 256 card and just carry them with me. I see the sync with the mac and NUDC as my real need on the mac side, but everyone is gonna have different needs. Diff strokes for Diff folks as the saying goes.

What we might think about doing, is to come up with some directions and tips in an organized form, submitted by those of us who have had some success in specific areas, and post it on a site (maybe here) to help the other mac users.

Last Mrk

08-20-2003, 11:02 AM

So, does this mean you can have the Palm Desktop for Macs installed and it lives happilly with the Garmin Mapping Software?

I've been following this thread (all 109 posts) and see others are having success but I'm new to Palm devices and would need someone with more knowledge to condense all this information that works.

I would be forever beholden to whomever did this. :)

I do feel confident enough now to order my iQue thanks to all that have contributed to this thread and the other threads also.

rkevwill: Are you still going to try the Garmin iQue HotSync Cradle with Serial Connection (010-10406-00) (http://www.gpscity.com/gps/brados/28124.3.7168895415820667323/iquehotsyser.html) when it becomes available?

rkevwill

08-20-2003, 12:14 PM

Last first, no real reason to try the garmin cradle since I purchased a palm serial cradle for 28 bucks. It works just fine.

Regarding the garmin software etc.
Remember, the only way you will be able to run the garmin applications is to run them within VPC. They are a windows program period.

You simply get an IOgear serial to usb adapter and install it and the latest driver solely on the mac side. Then in VPC, you choose the serial usb adapter as com port 1.

On the mac side, you can synch your addresses, datebook, and other applications just like a palm on any mac, but you have to choose the serial as your conduit. (this is your IOGear serial USB adapter)

So, yes, all your Palm Mac apps co-exist fine with the apps on the VPC side. You could sync in the mac, or sync on the VPC side. I like the idea presented several times of using a card reader to write the map files, as sync'ng those via VPC may be quite slow. I would install everything originally via VPC, (apps, setup etc) then if you wish, you can sync your address, datebook, and install other files in the future via the mac.

I am new on the palm also, so this is still a learning experience for me. VPC and macs, and PC's are old hat for me, but this is a work in progress, and the other posts are helping me to a great degree.

rkevwill

08-20-2003, 12:17 PM

one thing Mrk, in good faith, to save you a lot of time in setting up your palm, if you have a PC laying around to do the initial install, that might help. If not, be patient on the VPC side.

I agree, it would be great if we could come up with a "Mac" install and instructions page. Only problem there is, this is SUCH a work in progress at the present time.

Last Mrk

08-20-2003, 12:38 PM

Thanks rkevwill and everyone else that's posted here.

As I said, I now feel confident enough to order th iQue.

lycestra

08-20-2003, 01:41 PM

I'd suggest against syncing in Palm Desktop both in Windows (VPC or a box) and Mac, unless you disable actual info syncing (address book, calendar, etc) on one of them. My experience has been that Palm devices like being bound to one system, one Palm Desktop. But if you only sync maps/install in VPC, and all the data in mac, that sounds safe. (YMMV)

Also, what I'll probably be doing is building a few maps on a friend's PC, grab the image files, along with a small text file so i remember what they are and how to use them, and just copy those to the SD card using a USB reader/writer. Just so happens the same person has a digital camera that included a panasonic SD card reader/writer that OSX supports out of the box.

So, for those who care, here's how i plan on setting it up (if i can't do it this way, let me know.):

Maps:
1) Build what I want on a friends system, copy the created images to a Safe Place.

2) use SD reader/writer to copy the image to the card.

3) if i ever want to change maps, find the file, repeat step 2. if i dont have it pre-built, step 1. Hopefully never need to ever ever.

Syncing:
Short term-Serial; Long term-USB
I'll try the serial route, but I know (+thinking) the USB side will be supported. All in MacOSX, and using iSync conduit if i can help it (if PD works, iSync should too, right?). Given how you guys seem to have gotten it to work with no intense hackage, it seems like Garmin just weaseled out by saying it isn't supported. In due time, it will work 'natively.'

Also, i'd imagine that IR sync would be cheapest for those who have macs that still have IR ports. (TiG4 revB or earlier)

Just curious. Given all we've discovered in the past few weeks, with your current experiences, on what level would you recommend this to other mac users? smething like "Familiar users only" or "Novice" or "Geeks only", or is it just a bit of adaptation that its "So easy, the iQue Mac version only needs to include a bottle of asprin". or simple "Garmin needs to get their act together, but otherwise <blank>" (for some reason, im thinking of a kind of quote I'd see as a headline on MacSlash. no, im not a market analyst. :))

my iQue is due to arrive today. :)

Cheers.

rkevwill

08-20-2003, 02:22 PM

First, yes, only synch certain items on VPC and or the mac. Do not have them sync on the same items on both platforms. Turn the offending ones off on the other platform. IE: original files and maps, sync on VPC and turn off the address, contact, and to do after initial install (and make it default) on VPC.

Turn on ONLY, address, contact and to do on the mac side. Possibly memo and notes etc, but turn those off on VPC too then. (for instance, I have darn near everything turned off on my pc downstairs now, except for the garmin software and maps. I probably will not be loading maps with my mac and VPC since I have that avenue. I have tried it though, and it works fine with the serial connector/usb adapter, just slow)

You seem to be right. The more I read tells me I should sync the same items on the same computer all the time. (learning curve here)

Next, don't get your hopes up on Garmin. I doubt if they will ever support the mac in any way.

Next, as far as the level of expertise? I would say semi geek. You have to know the software and be able to configure it properly. First the conduit itself, then VPC, then which to sync and not sync, etc etc. Not hard, but frustrating for a casual user for sure.

Last Mrk

08-20-2003, 03:32 PM

This all ticks me off. Garmin doesn't support Mac's but uses a play on words with the iMac/iQue product naming. :(

When I first heard about the iQue I thought it was a new Macintosh product. After all, iMac, iPod, iPhoto, iDVD, iSync, iChat, iTunes, iCal and then iQue? I thought this is GREAT.

J/K, I knew better.

av8ndad

08-21-2003, 02:06 AM

Hello everyone.

Well, I am definitely a happier camper today. With the Palm Serial cradle and my IOGear USB-to-Serial adapter, I am finally able to synch my iQue with my Mac. Flawlessly.

Thanks to everyone for helping to figure this one out!

Now that I am able to start using it, I have a few questions.

First, I can't seem to get my Basemap to show in the Map application. The basemap file is installed on my SD card in the Garmin folder, and when I select About Map Data from the Options menu, it gives me the info on the basemap. It just doesn't show any of the map graphics (e.g. national boundaries, oceans, etc.) on the map; only the lat/long grids do. Any ideas on what I've done wrong?

Second, what is up with the battery life on this thing? It seems to me that the charge doesn't last very long, especially if you use the backlight at all.

Finally, I'm creating some image files of detailed maps. I'll report back soon on my results transferring them to the SD card (by the way, I am using a SanDisk PCMCIA card reader for the transfers to and from my SanDisk 256MB SD card).

More later . . . .

av8ndad

08-21-2003, 03:49 AM

I created a detailed .img file and put it in the Garmin folder on the SD card. It still doesn't show up.

Any ideas?

rkevwill

08-21-2003, 10:01 AM

AV8, make sure that when you are selecting the maps, you direct where you want the maps installed. There is a pop up box where you select SD card, instead of internal. Note, my SD card did not show up even with the button pressed, at first. But, after trying a different SD card, they now both show up. Go figure.

Yes, battery life sucks. I am wondering if it is due to the color and resolution. I have no idea, this is my first palm device.

av8ndad

08-22-2003, 05:23 PM

rkevwill:

Thanks for your tips. I started over completely, installing all of the initial files, basemap, and detailed maps from a PC. I could have just as easily done this from Virtual PC, but I had one handy.

I then went to the Mac, using all of the aforementioned gizmos and everything is working flawlessly.

We really do need to come up with some simple instructions for other Mac users and post them somewhere on the 'net.

Last Mrk

08-22-2003, 05:39 PM

Thanks for the info but my failure to get the Garmin USB Card Programmer to ever be recognized in Virtual PC after many many different tries has me a bit worried. :mad:

Sure hope you're right as I'd hate to have to get a PC to do this.

On the Mac side you're using Palm Desktop 4.1 for Macintosh (http://www.palmone.com/us/software/desktop/mac.html) and the iSync Palm conduit. (http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/isyncpalmconduit.html) Can you use the Address Book to route from then?

We really do need to come up with some simple instructions for other Mac users and post them somewhere on the 'net.

Yes that would help as the directions have gone in different directions at times as all the experimenting was going on.

I really do appreciate all the help from the rest of the Mac faithful here though. :D

rkevwill

08-22-2003, 06:24 PM

Mrk, I really have had no experience with the Mac Address book as far as the palm goes. I understand Isync works with it, so go for it! BTW, apparently, if you have SOME things in the conduit folder, it wont allow OTHER things in there to work. Supposedly, what you are supposed to do is install the conduit you want to use, LAST. Apparently, their installers move offending items out into a separate folder. Again, the only experience I have had with this is NUDC, and it moved the things fine.

I am sure if you read the instructions with Isync, it will tell you how to sync to the palm.

Remember one thing though. Even if you want to sync to the mac Address book, you MUST install PalmDesktop as that installation installs all the needed palm stuff on your computer. (hot sync etc)

Also, you inferred that some of us were using the Isync palm conduit? Nope, not me. I am using the NUDC palm conduit, and Isync and palm desktop conduits have been moved by the installer to another folder, but not deleted. If you use the Isync, make sure you reinstall it after you install Palm Desktop, and it will do its magic. And yes, if you use Isync, you should be able to use your mac address book, as thats what the Isync conduit is for.

Last Mrk

08-23-2003, 01:54 AM

Thanks again. I probably don't have to tell you this but i have no Palm experience as of yet but enjoy learning. :) Mac and VPC I'm not too bad at.

rkevwill

08-23-2003, 02:25 AM

ya know, what has taught me a lot so far is the instructions in Now Up to date, on Palm Sync'ng. At least it tells you why some things do not work. Thats where I picked up the info about making sure you install last, whatever it is you want to sync with. For example, if you want to have the palm sync with NUDC, you install that last. In your case, since you want to sync with Isync, I would suggest you install palm desktop (which really includes a lot of stuff other than just address and datebook) and first try to sync with that. After you find out you can sync with Palm Desktop, then install Isync (again, if you already have) and it will move conflicting things out during the installation (supposedly) Then, you can sync with your address book and Ical.

If I was using it for just personal stuff, I would certainly use them too. However, I have about 600 contacts in NUDC that have a lot of detailed info that is updated daily. Frankly, the Palm desktop application is pretty good in itself! Not quite as flexible and powerful as NUDC, but quite a bit more so than OSX address book and Ical.

Things are changing so quickly these days, who knows what any of us will be using a year from now.

Sparkytoo

08-23-2003, 10:17 PM

Mark/Space, the provider of Mac OS X s/w support for Sony CLIE's, has committed to provide similar s/w for the iQue 3600. Their Aug. 22 reply to my request is:

"We are working on a version of Missing Sync for the Garmin iQue 3600.

It will include support for HotSync (Palm Desktop and iSync), desktop mounting of the SD card and iTunes/iPhoto support.

It will NOT include support for the map data. You will still need a PC or Virtual PC to extract map data.

Watch www.markspace.com or www.versiontracker.com for the release of this new version of Missing Sync.c."

Mark/Space did not commit an availability date.

rkevwill

08-23-2003, 10:33 PM

I should mention here, today, I took my Ique down to my office (been off sick last week after my vacation). I hooked up the palm branded serial cradle, that comes with a mac serial adapter. Now, the computer I have at the office is an old 7600 upgraded with a G4, and running 9.1. (I have been keeping it at 9.1 to support my old TV card to watch the news on TV down there. Eventually I will switch)

It sync'd flawlessly the first try under 9.1 and serial. I don't know how the garmin serial cradle would do (considering their past history with macs) but the Palm serial cradle works just fine.

Of course, as we discussed earlier in these posts, it syncs under 10.2+ with the same Palm Serial cradle, and a usb to serial adapter.

Maybe when Garmin was saying early on that their device would work fine with the palm software, they were using and old SE30 and a serial cable under OS6. <smirk> Seems they think the macs are not deserving their attention, that might explain it.

BTW, as much as I kid about garmin and their Mac support, this Ique is one neat little toy.

av8ndad

08-24-2003, 07:01 PM

Hello all.

I thought I would give you an update on my experiences with my iQue. As you have read above, I am now very happy with this unit and it synchs flawlessly with my Mac (using Palm Desktop 4.1, Now UpToDate conduit, Palm serial cradle and IOGear adapter).

I have spent a fair amount of time playing with the iQue this weekend and experimenting with various synchs. I am pleased to advise that the Palm Desktop will even install stuff onto the SD card! That is great news.

I have also had extensive e-mail correspondence with a senior executive at Garmin in the technical support arena. He apologized to me for having been led astray by Garmin tech support prior to the release of the iQue. Garmin had hoped that the iQue would work with the Mac right out of the box, but they did not anticipate the problems we all initially experienced. They have purchased a new G4 Mac and are going to see whether they are going to support the Mac right out of the box. They are also beginning a correspondence with Mark/Space.

Honestly, two weeks ago I was ready to say goodbye to Garmin forever. I was that disappointed. Today, I feel refreshed by their attitude and am hopeful that the lack of Mac support might soon be a thing of the past. Let's all be optimistic about that.

--- AV8NDAD

Last Mrk

08-24-2003, 07:13 PM

This is the best news yet. I just got goose bumps reading your post. :D

edit 1. I wonder how many pages it's going to take to print out this entire thread?

edit 2. If they would have bought a new dual processor G5 instead, they probably would stop supporting the PC side. LOL

rkevwill

08-24-2003, 08:06 PM

<-------is hopeful, but still doubtful. Ya know Av8, from your's (and mine) experience from the past, regarding serial vs USB, it almost seems like Garmin has something in their USB protocol, that prevents it from working with the mac. We saw this in their usb card programmer on the street pilot, and now we see it on their Ique. Sure would be nice if they could find out what is causing that and fix it!

It also seems as if they are getting slammed with complaints, on a traditionally compatible (with mac) technology (palm) not working with a mac out of the box.

Mark/Space helping out in the sync'ng will be a great thing. Unfortunately,, I don't see how it is going to help anyone unless they want to use the Mac address book, Ical, Itunes, and other typical Isync Items, and although I haven't tried it, I suspect that it will work fine through the serial connection with Isync right now. We can load programs now, we can load PC created maps now, and we can sync now. Someone enlighten me please, what will they be bringing to the party? (only having looked at their Pocket PC stuff myself)

vajonez

08-25-2003, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by rkevwill
Someone enlighten me please, what will they be bringing to the party?If it's anything like the stuff they did with the Cliés, they'll be bringing USB (fast) synching as opposed to serial (slow) synching.

rkevwill

08-25-2003, 09:42 AM

Well, if thats the case, I certainly welcome it! Actually, when doing it mac natively via serial, it works pretty darn fast. That of course is with the palm applications only.

Now under VPC, thats a WHOLE different story. The serial transfer of maps etc. Is quite slow, and needs to be speeded up bigtime. USB would help there for sure.

crydiger

08-28-2003, 10:17 AM

Hi rkevwill,

I made exactly the same bad experiences with Virtual PC 6.1/Windows 2000 under OS X.

The strangest problem I found is the following: When I run the "Add New Hardware" control panel, a "Palm Handheld" device with a yellow quotation mark appears in the upper part of the list of found devices. This handheld is specified wiith the message: "This device cannot start (Code 10)" by the Device Manager. I first thought this was the iQue, but that's not true!

Just try out this procedure: Press the Hotsync button at the USB cradle or on the iQue screen, then instantly start the "Add New Hardware" panel to search for new devices while Hotsync is trying to synchronize. As soon as the device list appears, scroll down to the bottom, and there it is: The little green icon named"GARMIN HANDHELD"! Click on it, run the Device Manager now and you'll see that "this device is working properly" ... No, it isn't, because when the iQue finally stops the Hotsync process (because no connection could be established), and you search for new hardware again, the "Garmin Handheld" icon is gone again und all problems are still there.

Where's the fault? Hardware? Software? VPC? OS X? I already spent a complete working day just struggling with all that mess, but I'm still confident that someone will find the right answer.

Grettings from Bavaria, Germany

rkevwill

08-28-2003, 11:10 AM

Make sure you do not have the Iogear software installed on both the mac side and the PC side. Install the IOgear software ONLY on the PC side. BTW, IOgear worked much better with VPC than Keyspan for most of us folks.

Also, make sure, if you have more than one Virtual Machine within VPC (I have 2000, 98, linux, and XP) you have usb disable in all VM's except for the one you are using at present. Then restart to make sure it takes.

Sounds like your 2000 is losing the recognition of the USB/Iogear adapter, and the above suggestions might help.

rkevwill

08-28-2003, 11:13 AM

One more thing.....

You ARE using a serial Palm Cradle, instead of the USB, right? We already arrived at the result a LONG time ago in these threads, that the USB cradle that came with the Ique won't sync with the mac, and we have to use a serial cradle.

Just double checking here.

Last Mrk

08-28-2003, 11:26 AM

Not sure Crydiger is using a USB/Serial Adapter. Sounds like he's using the iQue USB HotSync Cradle.

How do you disable USB devices in OSX? Seeing as there's no drivers to install, it seems that disabling them is impossible. Maybe that in itself is the problem.

Although as you've pointed out before, other USB devices other than Garmin ones seem to work OK.

My Sony Cyber-shot camera and a IrDA device both hold their USB connection in VPC. I plug them in and they are immediately recognized without any need to enable them in the VPC preferences.

edit. I can't type fast enough. :) By the time I finished typing you had already brought up the USB/Serial adapter question. :(

crydiger

08-28-2003, 01:56 PM

Hi Last Mrk,

I received my iQue yesterday from GPSCity, so I'm still experimenting with the USB HotSync Cradle which came with the unit. The fact that the "Garmin Handheld" device temporarily appears in the list of supported USB devices means that the connection is there in principle, but isn't stable yet. This can have many reasons I'm trying to check out. On the Mac side the iQue isn't recognized at all, i. e. it doesn't appear in the Apple System Profiler list of supported USB devices. Running iSync with PalmOS conduit doesn't change anything.

I purchased the iQue primarily to be used as a car navigation unit for my trips in Europe and the U.S. Therefor the MapSource upload feature is absolutely essential for me. This won't ever work on the Mac unless Garmin finally decides to deliver native support for Mac OS. That's why I MUST get VirtualPC working with the iQue, and I WILL find a way.

Since I purchased one of the first Macs in Germany in 1984, I've gone through many similar problems. Some years ago I programmed and published the only Mac software (until today) which could communicate with certain common electronic weather stations via the Mac's serial port (http://www.helmutniklas.de/weatherecmac.htm just because I was frustrated that only Windows apps were available.

The VPC/USB/iQue problem will be solved, and I hope I can contribute some stuff in the upcoming days.

Greetings from Bavaria, Germany

Last Mrk

08-28-2003, 02:10 PM

Nice having a Mac developer on board here Crydiger.

The problem all of us Mac users have had is that Garmin USB devices so far are not recognized by Virtual PC 6.1 and Mac OSX 10.2.6.

I have, as well as others have been struggling with the USB Garmin Card programmer for some time with no success. And now this problem with the HotSync cradle.

rkevwill

08-28-2003, 03:07 PM

Cry, lets save you some time here. Go get a palm serial cradle. Only 29 bucks where I bought it (comp usa) and that is the ONLY way (with an IOgear serial/usb connector) you are going to be able to get it to work immediately. Yup, one of these days, perhaps there will be a pure USB fix, but right now, Serial is the trick to get it working with the mac, both VPC and Mac native.

Again, straight USB is not working, serial with usb adapter (or old mac serial port with included mac serial adapter) IS working.

lycestra

08-28-2003, 04:04 PM

Has anyone captured the USB id's that the iQue uses? By which i mean, the numerical values that it sends on the bus, which the computer is supposed to interpret as "Garmin Handheld". That just screams to me that it is not id'ing as what MacOS's Palm Desktop knows to be a Palm Handheld. A Palm by any other name is not a palm, and generally, you don't improvise that sort of thing. PCI does the same thing. Improvisation means your video card might get talked to like a scsi card, and Something Bad might happen.

Anway, if anyone knows the USB id's, try adding them to the plists in the USBNotifers for Transport and Hotsync, then see if MacOS see them. I don't know what it will do, and i don't know if its safe. Your mention of it being seen as new hardware just made me think of ways to hack it into existence in MacOS. That's not to say that it might talk differently on USB entirely, and not like a Palm. the Serial driver in the iQue is evidently the same, so there isn't much reason for them to change it if the serial driver works fine.

the files you'd want to edit with Property List editor would be:
/Applications/Palm/HotSync\ Manager/Contents/Plug-ins/USBNotifier/Contents/Info.plist
/Applications/Palm/Transport\ Monitor/Contents/Plug-ins/USBNotifier/Contents/Info.plist

you can open these easily in the propertylist editor using 'open /Applications/Palm/Transport\ Monitor/Contents/Plug-ins/USBNotifier/Contents/Info.plist' or the like from inside Terminal.

As to finding the id's, sys profiler might do it, if you catch it at the right time, or maybe VPC will list them in the "?" unknown device list. I'd just be tempted to use linux, but i dont have a linux box with USB.

YMMV, don't blame me for frying something. I haven't tryed this. Attempt at your own risk. disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer.

The thing that still puzzles me is why it doesn't stay 'existing' to VPC enough to sync with it. That would mean the incompatibility is more than just an ID thing, but an actualy protocol issue. (handshaking, or something, maybe even low level USB.)

end brain dump.

Keep me posted :)

rkevwill

08-28-2003, 06:40 PM

Exactly, you hit the nail right on the head when you mentioned protocol. The usb acts suspiciously like it acted when we tried to do the Garmin usb card programmer with the street pilot lll. Not being a total techie myself, I suspect it is in the "handshake" it uses in communications via garmin USB. (only a guess) My guess is AV8 can add more to this topic, as he seems more knowledgable in the tech area regarding that than me.

THAT, my friends, is why I doubt that Garmin will make the unit USB compatible. Why spend the dollars changing something that works so well on the PC for us unwashed mac types, when we can do the job via serial, or get a REAL life, and get a PC!!! (note the sarcasm there)

Note, I really hope they do though.

Of course, my mac wasn't brought down the last few weeks by all the viruses. Wonder how many at Garmin were? (btw guys, wasn't it fun having to update 2000 and XP within VPC? WHEW, what did they change with all those updates and patches? Everything but the desktop colors?)

lycestra

08-28-2003, 07:03 PM

So, from what you're saying, you can or have synced a normal USB Palm that can sync with Mac OS X, with Windows thru VPC? or has anyone tried since it works with mac anyway? Did the clie have the same problem as the iQue?

I'm just not convinced that the iQue's implementation, how it exists only while syncing, and not when it isn't, is all that peculiar.

Reasoning: 1) The cradle is brainless, and if the pda wants to save power, all IO will be powered off when not in use. 2) By appearing suddenly, you kick in the computers PnP, driver enable, and find resources chain of code. With a palm that appears right when it wants to sync, this chain might tie into the sync process as well. (events go like: appear, USB recognize,
Palm sync, disappear, dealloc. rather than appear, recognize..wait... event! signal sync, palm sync, etc.) But this is just my speculation talking. I'm good at that.

I don't know how other USB palms work. It could also easily be that other palms do act this way, but the handshake or model authentication was customized (b0rken) by Garmin, like I hope it isn't.

BTW, i checked the vendor/device id's in the plist i mentioned. Many are Palm, Sony, and Handspring; models even check. there is one other vendor, and another unknown (source: Linux's usb id table in /usr/share/hwdata/usb.ids (listed in hex, the plist takes decimal) ) Garmin's VID is not in there, btw. I don't know it either.

/me waiting for mine to get back with a new AC pin... shipped to garmin on monday, overnight. maybe it will be there when i get home.

while i share your opinion, i can't share your attitude. business is business. and for some reason, most people are convinced (transitive or intransitive) that windows is best for them. <shrug>

jimbob9999

08-28-2003, 08:14 PM

Ok, count me in as a Mac User, who is very interested in purchasing an ique...
but wanting to be prepared for the worst, I just want to make sure of what I need in terms of hardware/software....
1. MacOS X 10.2.6, and VPC 6.1
2. IOGear USB-serial cable/dongle thingie
3. Palm Universal serial cradle.
4. The only driver to be installed is the IOGear driver on the MacOS side

Now if all the above are true, can I:

a. Just use the Garmin software to generate basemaps/detailed maps within VPC (without any sync'ing, and copy them over to the MacOS, and then sync them there? Or is there some initialization needed, and does the garmin PC software have to "see" the ique?

b. do the 'regular' palm sync'ing of address books, calendars etc.. purely on the MacOS side (with the caveat that I'll be using Microsoft's Entourage palm conduit)?

c. Or to transfer maps, should I buy an SD card reader/writer/programmer (whichever it's called) and do a manual copy into the GARMIN folder within the card?

I think I've covered my concerns here. Hopefully the above makes sense. I certainly appreciate the hard work that has gone one before by all you stalwart Mac-heads!

Jimbob

ps the other possibility is to wait for a small rev. of the ique/cradle that allows for direct communication - or is that asking too much? :)

rkevwill

08-28-2003, 08:45 PM

No, you install the IOgear software on the PC side, to work with VPC and use it as a com1 port.

I have done so many things, I don't remember now, but I think OSX just recognized it. One thing for sure, you need to install it on the VPC side.

Use the com port on vpc side, select the adapter on the mac side. Make sure you don't duplicate syncs from side to side.

Example, I do all the syncs with addbook, todo's and datebook on the mac side, and I do the map applications on the VPC side.

Best thing to do is read all the previous posts to see how things evolved.

Equipment list is right on.

rkevwill

08-28-2003, 08:48 PM

Oh yeah, have sync'd palms via usb and the mac. Matter of fact, have a tungsten C, that I synch here at home on my G4. More than likely, I will make that palm my main business palm, and just use the Ique for travel and pleasure. Sure hope someday I can combine them into one palm.

rkevwill

08-28-2003, 08:52 PM

Oh yeah, Windows is best for a lot of things, if nothing else to eliminate headaches in compatability. I myself use a Windows laptop, as the MAIN reason I have a laptop is remote access when traveling, for my work. And of course, that is a Wintel application, as are the power point presentations etc. I have tried them all on the mac, and they convert just fine, but the remote access does work a bit better natively.

Anyway, believe it, the USB protocol seems to be different in Garmin's products. Having dealt with it on their card programmer for the Street Pilot, that goes a long way to convince me of that. I don't think they PURPOSELY made it incompatible, I just think they didn't care enough about macs to test it on them thoroughly. (I have a feeling, they may have seen the interest on this board though, according to AV8, there seems to be some interest in that direction)

lycestra

08-28-2003, 08:55 PM

My serial solution was the Keyspan serial adaptor. To sync in mac, enable the HotSync via the manager on the keyspan's serial port (not a usb connection). to sync in VPC, disable hotsync in mac, and set the VPC settings to use the keyspan as a native serial port (not USB. i even disable USB support in VPC settings.)

rkevwill, you have a native USB palm sync with mac os, but can it sync with VPC?

rkevwill

08-28-2003, 09:45 PM

Lyc:

Wow, you got the keyspan to work? Thats cool, cause we couldn't get the Keyspan to work on the Street Pilot.

re: usb on PC, dunno. Never had a reason to try it on VPC.

BTW, just for info and kicks, remember I have my Ique sync'ng with my old upgraded 7600 on the serial port at work. Problem is, I have a printer port, and a modem port, and I use both. I also have a switch, to split one, but I am having to restart the computer to get it to release the port. (still working on that one) I have an extra usb card from an old 6400 I used to use, and I am thinking about adding that to my 7600, then using the keyspan to emulate another port. We'll see. Ain't tech fun <g>

lycestra

08-28-2003, 10:21 PM

didn't know the keyspan was supposed to be troublesome. :)

Also, another "on the same page" thing, I do all my stuff in Mac OS X 10.2.6 on a Ti/867. VPC is the latest Connectix version (tho afaik, the m$ version is just a change in logos), running 2kPro. No classic or 9 involved with the iQue.

rkevwill, if you could try syncing your old palm with VPC, i'm sure we all would be interested in the results. Just an install, or a backup, or something. Backup is probably the safest thing to try. If it syncs, then I owe you a Coke. If it doesn't, and acts like the iQue, then praise The Woz, the old palms are just as fscked as the iQue, which means theres more hope. (as little as a good rom update would likely do it. maybe even just a Desktop plist mod)

Has anyone tried the plist mod? I'm still curious and iQue-less.

@o@ / w00t!

lycestra

08-28-2003, 10:30 PM

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=286732

The box said supports Linux; Windows x,y,and z ; Mac OS 9 and X. And palm-certified (or something good like that. PocketPC support too, but who cares). Sho 'nuff. Drivers that came with it for windows, 9, and X were even the most recent version. I have tried the windows driver, but it didn't want to install in 2kpro.

$50. not sure what the IOgear costs.

rkevwill

08-28-2003, 11:54 PM

Can't really try and sync the Tungsten C (not old, its brand new, even newer than the Ique) cause I spent too much time setting it up with all my biz contacts etc, and its full of info now, as well as bookmarks on the browser I transferred from my mac.

I am sure it would sync with VPC though, as it syncs with windows seamlessly of course, and the ONLY problem I have had with USB frankly, has been garmin related. Heck, I can even print locally via usb, from a server from work, remotely!

Perhaps someone else here has a palm they routinely use via VPC that can answer that question.

rkevwill

08-29-2003, 12:00 AM

oops, saw your later one, excuse the second post. Yup, thats why a lot of us bought the keyspan, but we found (this is ancient history) we couldn't use it with the garmin. Dunno why, same setup etc, but when we tried the IOgear (as a poster on a site told us his worked) like magic, the IOgear worked.

Perhaps they have updated the drivers since then, who knows. I still have mine, and like I said, may set it up on the 7600 at the office for an additional port.

My main computer at home is a twin 1 gig G4 tower, and it seems to handle just about anything I throw at it.

Anyway, sorry about not testing the Tungsten with VPC, but, as everything I read tells me, keep the palm sync'ng with ONE computer, and vice versa, to prevent conflicts. Perhaps I can try an install of some program though, and turn off the other sync's, I'll let you know.

rkevwill

08-29-2003, 12:03 AM

Ok, yes, I installed a solitaire game via VPC on the Tungsten C, with no problem. Took me all of about 2 minutes. I turned off all the backup and sync'ng of other items. (now if I will just be able to get the Tungsten back from my wife, who loves solitaire)

lycestra

08-29-2003, 12:14 AM

ok. I think that would confirm that USB palms can sync thru native USB in VPC. (you used native USB, i assume) In that case, something might be a little funky in the handshaking with the iQue.

<drama> Curses! Foiled again! </drama> Think Garmin is taking notes?

I grow skeptical that a plist mod would do anything, other than confuse palm desktop. And I owe you a Coke. :)

I still plan on trying it, unless it someone else does first. (I just hope it doesn't let the smoke out. iQue's and all electronics need that smoke to work right)

rkevwill

08-29-2003, 01:23 AM

oh yeah, used straight USB, no serial adapter. Love this Tungsten C, I might even try the upcoming Navman or Mapopolis software/hardware on it, (the new voice prompt systems) just to see how it works. Thing is, I don't know if there will be all the coordination between addresses, and if it has all the searches for hotels, restaurants, all that cool stuff.

Thats what brought forth the evolution of me using the Tungsten for biz, and the Ique for travel.

Now, if they upgrade the ique to have Wifi one of these days........ <g>

I STILL would like to hear if anyone has used the Ique with a modem or cable to connect to the internet yet!

lycestra

08-29-2003, 03:17 PM

in windows, there is a text file called PALMUSBD.INF that lists all devices, including the one that Windows reports as "Garmin Handheld". If you wanted, you could change it to "Garmin iQue 3600" or "Zort!". I don't think its used for anything else... but i don't plan on changing that.

VendorID: 091E (2334)
Device or Product ID: 0004 (4)

I added the decimal values to an entry in the plists in Mac OS X's palm desktop on my system.

When i get my iQue back, i'll be trying this. dunno what will happen.

I got goose bumps :) But i still doubt it will work.

lycestra

08-29-2003, 06:14 PM

/Library/Application Support/Palm HotSync/Transports/USB/Contents/Info.plist

Thats 3. changed them on my system. no iQue yet... <sigh>

GPSLady

08-29-2003, 07:47 PM

Two Quick off-topic notes for Mac users:
a. Route 66 2004 European Software is now available for Mac OS X, in the US. But laptop only.
b. National Geographic Maps TOPO! State Series topographic maps will be released in a Mac OS 9/X version in October. Don't know if their TOPO Sync will be updated to allow use on PPC/Palm PDAs.

crydiger

08-30-2003, 04:54 AM

Hi, thanks a lot for the additional info on the USB problem. I'll try some of the stuff you proposed so far. Did you notice that not only Windows recognizes the "Garmin Handheld" during an attempted Hotsync process? Keep the "Windows Settings" (have a German version, don't know the exact English labels) of VPC 6.1 open while the iQue tries to sync, and you'll find a "Palm Handheld" checked as a supported device in the list of activated USB devices. But, as in the Windows "New Hardware" process, that entry instantly disappears when the iQue cancels the Hotsync attempt with that annoying error message.

As I wrote before, this is a clear hint that the connection is there in principle, but there's a minor (in my opinion) software incompatibility, maybe just a single line of code which prevents the connection from getting stable. I guess that the programmers of the iQue driver could solve that problem in an hour - if they wanted, and if they would watch our discussion with some sympathy. We all know that Mac users always have to help themselves in such issues. But a little help from outside - from the manufacturer who enjoys our money - could take us one lightyear ahead.

Will keep working on the problem as best as I can. Thanks for all the helpful posts and for this forum as a whole!

crydiger

08-30-2003, 05:46 AM

Ooops, I found another hint for an USB connection being not far from working. The iQue is definitely present under VPC 6.1/Windows 2000 even if there's NO current Hotsync attempt running. I ran the "Add/Remove Hardware" control panel, then chose "Uninstall/Unplug a device", then "Uninstall a device", then checked "Show hidden devices". Scroll down to the bottom of the list and you'll find the device "Garmin-Handheld" installed as a hidden device.

Note that this time there's a "-" (dash) between "Garmin" and "Handheld", whereas in the installed devices list during a synch process there's NO dash in "Garmin Handheld".

I really don't know if that difference means anything to the USB routines running during a hotsync attempt, but from my own programming I know that this would be a TYPICAL "typo" which can corrupt a complete programming logic. In other words, a variable used for naming a device could NEVER contain a name string with a blank space like in "Garmin Handheld". You would have to put in a dash (-) or and underscore (_).

So my question to the programmers would be: Can a USB device like the iQue appear under Windows with two DIFFERENT device names, one WITH and one WITHOUT the dash?

lycestra

08-30-2003, 12:03 PM

from what I know (not at all much), the spelling probably doesn't matter. Reason being, those strings are also localized (for a spanish system, it will say something totally different, and a french, etc.). I know the strings are localized for Palm desktop (the windows Palm device list i mentioned makes it obvious), but i don't know if the "Garmin-Handheld" is. i suppose it is possible for it to matter, but if it works on a PC running windows, i can't assume that this changed and thus broke VPC, tho i haven't seen a real PC.

The way that USB devices are recognized are thru the aformentioned VendorID and ProductID. A driver that wants a particular device knows the values for its device beforehand. This is why I proposed adding the iQue's vendorID and productID to the device lists used by Mac OS X's version of Palm Desktop, in which the iQue is notably (yet not obviously) absent. I have Palm Desktop 4.1, and without those IDs, it would make sense why Mac OS X does absolutely nothing. It's never heard of a USB device with VID 2334/PID 4, and no driver will fess up to being compatible.

As to why there would be a Garmin-Handheld in the hidden devices, as a Mac user, I am not sure. My best guess is that it is a place holder. Can you go deeper than just the name? Does it have any resources, or some IDs associated with it?

lycestra

08-30-2003, 04:38 PM

still no iQue from my rma. (/me getting impatient. 3 day weekend too)

I'm wondering if anyone, or even Garmin has tried the USB id mod. i'm still hopeful. I'd like to hear if anyone has any results, but I'm not going to post an easy walk-thru of what I did until its known to be safe, and at least a step in the right direction. PM me if you do want to try it, but standard disclaimers still apply.

Any other words from Markspace, Garmin, or a VPC tweak? (tried other windows versions, maybe? 2kpro here.)

rkevwill

08-30-2003, 05:05 PM

Man, you are a glutton for punishment LOL. You could save yourself a bunch of time and anguish, if you just use serial with adapter for the maps and initial installation in VPC, and use the serial side on the mac for sync'ng.

But, I understand, and wish you luck workin with the protocol. Keep all of us unwashed mac types posted! <g>

jimbob9999

08-31-2003, 01:27 PM

Just me again....
So once the whole initialization/installation has been done via VPC/serial, and using sync on the mac side for addresses, calendars etc..., what is the forum approved method for adding/changing/deleting different mapsource map segments (after having generated them in VPC of course)? Drag and Drop? or go back to VPC and sync? or buy a card-writer?

jimbob - a wannabe ique owner - with doubts!

rkevwill

08-31-2003, 01:56 PM

Well, you have 3 choices.
1.Drag the file over and put it over the install icon on the mac side (make sure you tell WHERE to put the file, internal, sd card etc)
or
2. Sync via VPC
or
3. Write to a card with a card writer.

For speed sake, most of the advanced users suggest using the card writer. I usually just sync via VPC (maps only really) or use my pc (again, maps only)

Importantly (I am learning here) Only sync the same items, with the same puter. Add's, To'do's, calendar, etc I do on the mac, have them turned off on the pc side. Garmin/Map stuff, I have turned off on the mac side, do on the PC side.

The above is mentioned many times by other developers for other programs, and initially I didn't pay attention to keeping the various sync's married to a specific puter, and ran into problems. Its worth remembering.

I hope more advanced users will chime in here and correct or add to what I have just told you. Even though I am an advanced Mac/PC user, I am a novice palm user.

GpsMac

09-02-2003, 08:15 PM

Apple's USB Probe (From the USB developer toolkit) Shows these.

Download the PDF's

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/wa/default?user=david_quick&templatefn=FileSharing1.html&xmlfn=TKDocument.1.xml&sitefn=RootSite.xml&aff=consumer&cty=US&lang=en

lycestra

09-02-2003, 08:44 PM

GpsMac,

Thanks much. That shows me that the system is at least aware of the device, and knows somewhat of what it is. Also, it confirms the product/device ids i found in windows.

The "Vendor Specific" interfaces are disconcerting. Not sure what other palms are. But, Palm Desktop probably wouldn't see the device without knowing its ids.

I'll still be trying the id mods, unless someone else has, and gotten no results. Or Markspace ships missing sync for iQue beofre i get mine back, so i don't need to.

Thanks again.

GpsMac

09-02-2003, 08:54 PM

I am trying to Hack the PList now.

GpsMac

09-02-2003, 09:12 PM

Hack completed. Still not able to sync.

lycestra

09-02-2003, 09:41 PM

aw.. I was really hoping it would work.

all three plists, added a new dictionary to the array of ids, with the proper vendorid/productid of 2334/4. restarted transport manager (disable/enable), enable usb sync. thats all i did or could think of.

Did it even pop up a window to try to sync? Anything in the system's console log?

Thanks for your help, man.

I guess the missing sync it is. But they integrate devices with iphoto and itunes too, i think.

Probably want to revert the list back.

Thanks for trying it.

GpsMac

09-02-2003, 10:20 PM

I got only one PList in
/Library/Appliction Support/Palm HotSync/Transports did I miss something? You mentioned 3 plists.

GpsMac

09-02-2003, 10:59 PM

I went back and found the post I missed. I modded the other 2 PLists. With this done Hotsync Manager starts up disabled. Enable it and it only stays that way for 30 seconds or so.Viewing processes indicates Transport Monitor is not running.

GpsMac

09-02-2003, 11:36 PM

I got the iQue to Sync using USB by doing as you suggested and editing the PLists to add the iQue to the USB Device Lookup.

The first time it did not work because I added the Keys to the bevginning of the list. This caused the Hotsync to disconnect. I went back and removed the edits and redid them placing them at the end of the array. Once I did this I started HS Manager and did the Disable/Enable thing. I verified the HS Manager continued to be enabled. I then checked the processes to ensure transport Monitor was running. Next Hotsync. All my stuff was synced. One thing to note the iQue manual says it needs a dedicated port so don't try to plug it into the Keyboard.

This is not a hack for the faint of heart.

rkevwill

09-02-2003, 11:49 PM

Quote:

"This is not a hack for the faint of heart."

Which tells me, I will continue to use the serial cradle for the time being LOL. Great work, now forward your info to garmin, to see if they can do a workaround for this in future software releases!! (wonder if they will actually take this to heart)

I guess I am gettin old. If it doesn't come pretty easy anymore on the computer, I pretty much beg out and go to bed <g>

GpsMac

09-02-2003, 11:49 PM

Mac OS X Sync Picture

GpsMac

09-02-2003, 11:58 PM

This is very likely what Missing Sync does.
They probably spend most of the time packaging it in an installer.

I am a nix programmer and this kind of thing really revs my motor.

I have been in contact with Garmin several times and they have indicated in no uncertain terms they are not interested in supporting the Mac. Normally I would have taken my money elsewhere but I am a believer in Multitaskers. I needed a GPS and a Palm
And this guy fit the bill to a T.

rkevwill

09-03-2003, 12:12 AM

Well, pretty soon, both navman and mapopolis will be having out nav programs for palms that are also navtek based. These can be put on Tungsten C's, Tungsten t's, Pda's with wifi, bluetooth, etc tc. (and thats only gonna get better) One would THINK that since it is a software add on, things will work and we won;'t have the incompatabilites we have now. Time will tell. They ARE voiced based navtek data btw. Mapopolis is talking about it on their site now, a bit quietly. Navman you have to kind of squeeze it out of them. But its coming!

lycestra

09-03-2003, 12:36 AM

Break out the coffee, coke, dew, or whatever.

SCORE!!! IT'S GOOOOOD! GOAAAAAL!

now i just need to get my fscking iQue back!

<GIR> Aw, meeean. </GIR>

Thanks man.

someone email slashdot, macslash, and macnn. This be one sexay thang... unless we don't want to hurt third party revenue. :)

GpsMac

09-03-2003, 12:56 AM

I am reposting lycestra's brain dump so that all relevent information is located in one thread.

USB ids?

Has anyone captured the USB id's that the iQue uses? By which i mean, the numerical values that it sends on the bus, which the computer is supposed to interpret as "Garmin Handheld". That just screams to me that it is not id'ing as what MacOS's Palm Desktop knows to be a Palm Handheld. A Palm by any other name is not a palm, and generally, you don't improvise that sort of thing. PCI does the same thing. Improvisation means your video card might get talked to like a scsi card, and Something Bad might happen.

Anway, if anyone knows the USB id's, try adding them to the plists in the USBNotifers for Transport and Hotsync, then see if MacOS see them. I don't know what it will do, and i don't know if its safe. Your mention of it being seen as new hardware just made me think of ways to hack it into existence in MacOS. That's not to say that it might talk differently on USB entirely, and not like a Palm. the Serial driver in the iQue is evidently the same, so there isn't much reason for them to change it if the serial driver works fine.

the files you'd want to edit with Property List editor would be:
/Applications/Palm/HotSync\ Manager/Contents/Plug-ins/USBNotifier/Contents/Info.plist
/Applications/Palm/Transport\ Monitor/Contents/Plug-ins/USBNotifier/Contents/Info.plist

you can open these easily in the propertylist editor using 'open /Applications/Palm/Transport\ Monitor/Contents/Plug-ins/USBNotifier/Contents/Info.plist' or the like from inside Terminal.

As to finding the id's, sys profiler might do it, if you catch it at the right time, or maybe VPC will list them in the "?" unknown device list. I'd just be tempted to use linux, but i dont have a linux box with USB.

YMMV, don't blame me for frying something. I haven't tryed this. Attempt at your own risk. disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer.

The thing that still puzzles me is why it doesn't stay 'existing' to VPC enough to sync with it. That would mean the incompatibility is more than just an ID thing, but an actualy protocol issue. (handshaking, or something, maybe even low level USB.)

end brain dump.

Keep me posted

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

GpsMac

09-03-2003, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by lycestra
Break out the coffee, coke, dew, or whatever.

SCORE!!! IT'S GOOOOOD! GOAAAAAL!

now i just need to get my fscking iQue back!

<GIR> Aw, meeean. </GIR>

Thanks man.

someone email slashdot, macslash, and macnn. This be one sexay thang... unless we don't want to hurt third party revenue. :)

Done

crydiger

09-03-2003, 02:36 AM

What an OUTSTANDING work! Thank you so MUCH! I didn't get that far with my efforts because my knowledge of OS X/Unix is still quite poor. I would also like to urgently encourage you to forward your results to Garmin. This puts them under pressure to work on the Mac matter, and they won't be able to claim a general incompatibility anymore. Writing a little, official plug for OS X can't be an unsolvable problem, and they could certainly gain some sympathy back (and more orders) from the disappointed Mac community. Again, thanks a lot for your time and brilliant work.

Greetings from Bavaria, Germany

lycestra

09-03-2003, 03:00 AM

Quick warning: This requires editing text files, which is generally not the thing we like doing. This may or may not work for you. It is the standard "It works for me", tho i can't even say that because mine is still on RMA.

After installing Palm Desktop 4.1, edit three files, adding the 6 lines about 3 lines before the end. Add the segments between START and END, not including START and END.

</dict>
---START
<dict>
<key>USBProduct</key>
<string>4</string>
<key>USBVendor</key>
<string>2334</string>
</dict>
---END
</array>
</dict>
</plist>

These must be added to the following three files:
/Applications/Palm/HotSync Manager/Contents/Plug-ins/USBNotifier/Contents/Info.plist
/Applications/Palm/Transport Monitor/Contents/Plug-ins/USBNotifier/Contents/Info.plist
/Library/Application Support/Palm HotSync/Transports/USB/Contents/Info.plist

Now, make sure to freshly restart the Transport Manager by disabling then re-enabling it from HotSync Manager. Also, make sure you have USB syncing enabled.

That's it. it should work now! Happy Trails.

For Map syncing, you have Four options:
1) Use a genuine PC, syncing only the Maps (Install), nothing else (Address, todos). If you Sync stuff on both, you will have issues of losing stuff or having double. Not a good idea to do that.
2) Use VPC to build and install maps using a Serial interface. use a USB to Serial interface (NOT the PalmConnect dongle), and the easiest way for me is to tell VPC to use the serial port as a serial, and disable USB all together.
3) (untested) Use VPC to build a map, then dig thru your disk, in your palm user's directory, to grab the image file. Drag that to Mac OS X, and install it using Mac Palm Desktop's Install conduit.
4) (i haven't done it right yet) Use an SD Card Reader/Writer to write the map directly to the card. I have tried, but not gotten it to work for me. YMMV.

Those who have had success, please provide feedback, and spot check this for accuracy. Since mine is still on RMA, i have yet to share in the Sync-y goodness.

lycestra

09-03-2003, 03:22 AM

BTW, GPSMac, I understand the Unix Joy-of-the-Hack feeling. I'm there. As a Unix (well, Linux) geek myself, it just feels neat. Converted to mac about 5 years ago. done a few good mods and fixes. Thanks for the help. Couldn't a done it without ya.

So, now that us Unix guys have done our bit, now it's the Graphics guys' turns. Where is our iQue icon for iSync? Hmmm?? :)

GpsMac

09-03-2003, 10:02 AM

Users can also use Apples Property List editor. It is in the Developer Toolkit applications folder.

This gives me an idea for an application that will add HotSync for any future Palm OS device.

Robertp366

09-06-2003, 06:37 AM

To Andyland:

Thanks for your post - I have a Palm serial cable, and just got the IOGear adapter at Fry's. Followed your notes and everything works just fine.

As you suggested, I also used VPC/ Mapsource to create detailed maps, then copied them to a VPC/Mac shared folder. Then a quick click put me back in OSX and I just copied the map (GMAPSUPP.img) file to an SD disk in my SD reader; put map in Garmin folder in the SD and all was good.

While I was at it I also put the Americas Std basemap on th SD, and created in successive installs each of the standard and lite basemaps, as well as the std Atlantic,Pacific, and World basemaps. Each of these went into the shared folder (with unique name add-ons) so I can change Basemap any time I need. I also put the Americas Lite basemap on the internal memory in case I want to use a seperate SD for MP3 files.

I Put Americas Std BaseMap and most of west from San Diego to Whistler CAN, and east to near Denver all on a 256 MB SD. Took a few tries to get the maps from MapSource maxed out on the SD. Saved each of those too in the VPC Shared Folder.

BTW, I have a seperate Palm Desktop in VPC for my Handspring - mostly it needs a different HotSync app. PalmDesktop 4.1.0.0 and Hot Sync 4.0.4.0 for the iQue (serial to IOGear to USB) under VPC, and PalmDesktop 4.0.1.0, Hot Sync 3.1.2H with Visor USB driver for Handspring USB, also in VPC. Looks supiciously that the iQue USB problem is between HotSync and Palm Device Drivers. Seperate user names on each device.

Palm Desktop 4.1.0.0 in VPC also seems to work fine with Handspring as long as HotSync 3.1.2H is active. And I still also have PalmDesktop in OSX for the Handspring USB and a Palm Vx USB as well.

Just to make life easy, I got Garmin to send me a iQue Serial Cradle; hope it works as well with the IOGear adapter as the Palm cable ( which does not mechanically connect well with the iQue). Will report as soon as it arrives.

Once again, THANKS A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robert

dmbutts

09-08-2003, 02:12 AM

After following the instructions from lycestra's post, I was successful in getting Palm Desktop Hotsyncing to work with the iQue via iSync in OS X.

In addition, I followed lycestras suggestion to try to create map files in VirtualPC, which saves the files into the "Install" Palm folder on the PC side.
I then copied all the files in that directory over to the "Files to Install" Palm directory on the OS X side.

Then did a normal Hotsync via iSync, and
it installed the maps perfectly, and was USB fast. No Serial port pain involved.

(I also could have saved them into the Secure Digital (SD) Card subfolder to put them on the SD card also, but I don't have an SD card yet.)

Thanks Lycestra!

crydiger

09-08-2003, 05:51 AM

Wanted to deliver positive feedback for the (absolutely cool) plist hacking method developed/proposed by GpsMac/lycestra. It definitely WORKS! After inserting the new lines I rebooted, and there was the FIRST SUCCESSFUL HOTSYNC process under OS X! Couldn't believe it, but it's true. The standard Garmin USB cradle DOES work now on the Mac side!

Then I tried to upload MapSource data to the external 128 mb SD card in my iQue via OS X. Dragged the .IMG file created with the "Map Install" feature of Palm Desktop 4.1 under VPC 6.1/Windows 2000 from C:\Program Files\Palm\MyUserName\CardInst\Slot-SD\GMAPSUPP.IMG to OS X, created an alias for the "Send to Handheld" droplet of Palm Desktop 4.1 (OS X), and dragged "GMAPSUPP.IMG" (about 25 mb) over the droplet. The Hotsync process started instantly after starting Hotsync at the iQue, and it took about one minute to upload the map. Went outside to catch all available satellites, and there it was: The street where I live in a little town in Southern Bavaria, Germany. Wow, felt damn' good after all that mess.

GpsMac, lycestra, and all the others who were involved: You did the COOLEST JOB I ever experienced in a tech forum like this one! Just can't tell you in words how thankful I am!

P.S. I was stupid enough to purchase a Keyspan Serial-to-USB adapter severall days ago because the IOGEAR adapter isn't available in Germany. Got it working under VPC 6.1 until the middle of the Hotsync process. Then the connection was always aborted by the iQue, no matter what I tried. Then I ordered the IOGEAR adapter (hasn't reached me yet) from Outpost.com to have a serial alternative, anyway. Outpost.com seems to be the only U.S. retailer (listed at the IOGEAR website) which offers worldwide shipping for online orders. For other Europeans who wanna order from there: Be aware that optional shipping via DHL (the faster way) is more expensive than the product itself. "Fast" is relative here - I have been waiting for the delivery almost a week now.

Last Mrk

09-08-2003, 05:58 PM

I did the hack on all 3 files, double checked everything and I get no response when I try to HotSync.

Trying to see what might be wrong I put the iQue in the Garmin USB HotSync cradle and I look in Apple System Profiler to check for USB devices it may be recognizing and I do not see any USB device other than my printer and scanner and the keyboard listed.

If I put my iQue in the Garmin USB/Serial cradle I have using the iogear adapter, it shows up as USB/Serial device in the profiler.

Is there something wrong with the Garmin USB cradle or is there something wrong with what I'm doing.

lycestra

09-08-2003, 06:08 PM

It doesn't sound like anything is wrong. Palm PDAs only appear on USB when they are trying to sync. If you press the button and nothing shows up, then its either the contact with the cradle, computer connection, or maybe the cradle is bust.

If everything hardware checks out, it is likely that you didn't restart Transport Monitor (from HotSync Manager, disable then enable), Transport Monitor crashed (GpsMac had this when the mod was put first in the list, rather than at the end), and/or the mod wasn't complete or correct.

I have a program that will do the modification with a simple click. http://www.lycestra.com/ique.html

But you'd probably have to revert to the old plists, or re-install Palm Desktop in order to use it...

Is this any help?

rkevwill

09-08-2003, 06:38 PM

lycestra:

Hats off, and great work on the little hack. Keep us updated on "updates" to it over time.

Ohhh, one thing I wanted to ask. Does it cause any problems sync'ng to other Palms (for info in the future)?

At present, I'm sync'ng to only my pc side, for the garmin maps, but sync'ng for business use on 9.1 at the office. I have heard its best to only sync on one computer, with one item on the palm. Therefore, I won't be sync'ng here at home with my biz apps.

I might want to keep sync'ng on this machine though, with another palm we use. Was wondering if the changes might mess up that one if I were to do them in the future.

rkevwill

09-08-2003, 06:39 PM

oops, sorry. To clarify, I am running jaguar here at home.

lycestra

09-08-2003, 07:06 PM

i wouldn't expect the modifications to effect anything negatively. All it does is say "Hey Palm Desktop. Here's a device you can talk to. Add it to the list." I don't think that could change PD's behavior with other palms.

rkevwill

09-08-2003, 09:54 PM

well, I for one hope you sent this info to Garmin, Missing Sync, and palm, and to anyone else you think might be able to use it. Maybe even Apple! Great work:)

GpsMac

09-08-2003, 10:40 PM

What you ar eediting is an XML preferences file. If you are doing it with at text editor make absolutely sure all the puncuation is correct. I used the Apple Property List Editor so I know what I entered is correct. You also cannot add the changes to the beginning of the list they must go at the end. Adding the edits to the beginning stalls the Transport Monitor.

One thing to try is open the Hotsync Manager and ensure that it is enabled. If there is a problem the HS Manager will activate for about 1 minute then disable itself. Another thing to look at is the process manager from your Applications/Utilities folder and search for Transport Monitor. These should tell you if these apps are running afte the changes have been applied.

As Lycstra has stated your iQue will not try to connect until the hotsync button has been pressed. The iQue manual admonishes that it requires a dedicated USB port. They say that it can't share a port with other devices. I think this is crap because I have mine attached to the keyboard. But to be safe at least initially do as they suggest. What you should see in the Apple System Profiler is posted on my iDisk at http://homepage.mac.com/david_quick .

Last Mrk

09-08-2003, 10:58 PM

Still no success here.

System Profiler does recognize the device as Palm Handheld if I hotsync and check the profiler at the same time. After trying to HotSync the iQue gives me an error message "The connection between your handheld computer and the desktop could not be established, Please check your setup and try again"

When I open ""HotSync Manager Set Up then to go to "Connection Settings" and highlight "Palm Connect", it says that the device recognized there is "Serial to USB Adapter". This is even when the iQue is in the Garmin USB HotSync cradle. ????

Any additional help will be greatly appreciated.

GpsMac

09-08-2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Last Mrk
Still no success here.

System Profiler does recognize the device as Palm Handheld if I hotsync and check the profiler at the same time. After trying to HotSync the iQue gives me an error message "The connection between your handheld computer and the desktop could not be established, Please check your setup and try again"

When I open ""HotSync Manager Set Up then to go to "Connection Settings" and highlight "Palm Connect", it says that the device recognized there is "Serial to USB Adapter". This is even when the iQue is in the Garmin USB HotSync cradle. ????

Any additional help will be greatly appreciated.

Have to tink about that one. Did you install any Drivers to get the IOGear device to work? Try using a different port than the one the IOGear Device was attached to originally. I am not sure about X but I have had success with early PC USB ports moving devices around when they won't work on one port. It may be that the IOGear driver is capturing the device. Just guessing though.

lycestra

09-09-2003, 12:41 AM

Last Mrk,

You want to use the USB connection, not the "Palm Connect" connection.

the "Palm Connect" option is for the Palm-branded Serial-to-USB adaptor. You don't need this if you are using another brand of serial adaptor, or native USB.

If you use a Serial cradle/cable and a non-Palm branded (like Keyspan or IOGear), you should be able to see that specific serial port in HotSync Manager, but only when that adaptor is plugged in. It doesn't matter if anything is plugged in to the serial end at that moment, it should see it if it is just plugged in to USB.

If you are using the USB cradle or cable, just enable the USB connection in HotSync Manager. Anything speaking on native USB will be covered by this option, and this option alone. The devices listed in the USB device list in the plist files are what devices are watched for with the USB connection type.

The mention of "Palm Connect", serial-to-usb, and that you are using native USB just doesn't connect in my mind, and probably your computer's as well.

GpsMac

09-09-2003, 12:46 AM

Lycstra:
FYI
I have both PalmConnect and USB selected on my setup and it still works (This appears to be the default) . I have not however tried the IOGear solution.

crydiger

09-09-2003, 08:12 AM

Last Mrk,

read your posts and will try to help by just describing what I exactly did yesterday before the Garmin USB cradle started to connect properly. I really don't know if everything I did was in fact necessary, OK? Call me naive, but I succeeded quickly. Works on a G4 dual processor under OS 10.2.6

I don't have installed any Keyspan or IOGEAR software on the Mac side. In the Hotsync Manager, only "USB" is checked, NOT the Palm Connect or any other option. I first disconnected the iQue from the USB cradle and did a factory reset (little hole at the back; used a paperclip). CAUTION: Don't know which user settings could be destroyed by that total reset! But after all the unsuccessful experiments I thought this would be a good idea. Then I put the iQue back in the cradle which is connected directly to the CPU, not via the keyboard or another hub.

Looked for the 3 plist files described by GpsMac/lycestra in the Finder. Double-clicked them, and they opened automatically in TextEdit (!). Watched the text tabs in the default code lines and set the tab positions exactly as in the lines above. Note that there are different tabs for different lines. Saved the files, rebooted (isn't a bad choice), then launched Hotsync Manager, disabled Hotsync, quitted, relaunched it and enabled Hotsync again. Then I started HotSync at the iQue and things worked perfectly.

Note that the iQue doesn't appear in Apple System Profiler's USB devices list when no synching is done. Nevertheless the connection works as soon as Hotsync is started. Good luck 4 U! Keep us posted.

Last Mrk

09-09-2003, 10:44 AM

I'll have to recheck everything. At the present time I see no USB connection choice in my setup but did previously. ????

lycestra

09-09-2003, 11:01 AM

Default install of Palm Desktop has USB. I don't think it could not be installed.

best guess there is that one of the plists isn't parsing to its liking, and can't load it. the plist at /Library/Application Support/Palm HotSync/Transports/USB/Contents/Info.plist is where I'd think it likely. Reason being, that Transports directory has one for Palm Connect and Serial as well. so maybe thats where those choices come from. USB not showing up as an option is certainly a problem.

If checking all three (probably already done that too many times) doesn't pan out, You could try reinstalling Palm Desktop, then iSync_Palm (if you use it), then run my PDiQue. I think any user settings are kept elsewhere (like home) and wouldn't be lost, but don't quote me on that.

Sidenote: I had to disable Photo syncing for hotsync not to log an error. Not a fatal error, but a nusiance. iQue doesn't do photos i guess.

Last Mrk

09-09-2003, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by lycestra
Default install of Palm Desktop has USB. I don't think it could not be installed.

best guess there is that one of the plists isn't parsing to its liking, and can't load it. the plist at /Library/Application Support/Palm HotSync/Transports/USB/Contents/Info.plist is where I'd think it likely. Reason being, that Transports directory has one for Palm Connect and Serial as well. so maybe thats where those choices come from. USB not showing up as an option is certainly a problem.

If checking all three (probably already done that too many times) doesn't pan out, You could try reinstalling Palm Desktop, then iSync_Palm (if you use it), then run my PDiQue. I think any user settings are kept elsewhere (like home) and wouldn't be lost, but don't quote me on that.

Sidenote: I had to disable Photo syncing for hotsync not to log an error. Not a fatal error, but a nusiance. iQue doesn't do photos i guess.

I feel like a hypochondriac going to the doctor. :rolleyes:

You're correct in which file is not loading properly.

I reinstalled Palm Desktop 4.1 (actually several times) and after changing the first 2 .plists as described the USB still shows in the setup list. When I modify the /Library/Application Support/Palm HotSync/Transports/USB/Contents/Info.plist it disapears. I eventually made copies of the original .plists and when I put the original /Library/Application Support/Palm HotSync/Transports/USB/Contents/Info.plist back, the USB choice will return.

What could make it not parse properly?

I did notice that for some reason I no longer have the TextEdit application on my hard drive so when modifying the files I was using Tex-Edit Plus and am having a hard time finding TextEdit to re-install.

lycestra

09-09-2003, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Last Mrk
I feel like a hypochondriac going to the doctor. :rolleyes:

You're correct in which file is not loading properly.

I reinstalled Palm Desktop 4.1 (actually several times) and after changing the first 2 .plists as described the USB still shows in the setup list. When I modify the /Library/Application Support/Palm HotSync/Transports/USB/Contents/Info.plist it disapears. I eventually made copies of the original .plists and when I put the original /Library/Application Support/Palm HotSync/Transports/USB/Contents/Info.plist back, the USB choice will return.

What could make it not parse properly?

I did notice that for some reason I no longer have the TextEdit application on my hard drive so when modifying the files I was using Tex-Edit Plus and am having a hard time finding TextEdit to re-install.

TextEdit is supplied by the Essentials pkg in the standard Mac OS X install. (thanks OmniDiskSweeper)

in terms of parsing, it could be an XML tag is misspelled, or somehow malformed. Beyond the XML, if the content is not interpretable by the code using it, it might fail as well. Like if string was spelled srting, or tags weren't paired properly (<abc>yada</abc>). Another one could be if the editor you are using saves it as Rich Text, or something else. That would be bad. But if that were the case, then the other two would also be bad. But I don't know how errors in the other two plists might show up as errors, but at the moment, I can't think of any way to verify that the other two aren't as b0rked as this one, if that makes any sense. Does it sound reasonable to assume that all 3 are broken?

Also, my preferred editor for this was Vim, but since this is an iQue/mac thread, i don't think i want to go in to detail on that hive of worms.

This is one reason why GpsMac recommends using apple's Property List Editor. But i think PDiQue would be easier. :)

so my checklist of things to check are:
- File type: RTF? Text? b0rked?
- XML formatting: tag spelling and symmetry
- XML content: do they appear similar to other entries in the USBDevice list?
- Ways of tracking down other errors: maybe system console or something.

(debugging. ahhh. squishy.)

Last Mrk

09-10-2003, 12:20 AM

I gave up and purchased Missing Sync for the Garmin. Works good for now.

Thanks for all the help and I wish I had been succesful with your hack as it's more fun the way you guys accomplished this. And I could have saved $29. :(

crydiger

09-10-2003, 05:14 AM

Got another idea why the plist hacking method doesn't work for some users with the Garmin USB cradle. I found that I always get error messages while trying to hotsync whenever Classic OS 9.2 is running in the backkground! I still have to use it because I need to work with some older applications. Quitting Classic instantly resolves the connect error and everything is running perfectly again.

The reason is that Classic (unlike OS X) recognizes the USB cradle as an USB device at startup. The result is the standard OS 9 alert message (pop-up) that the right software (driver) isn't installed for the conflicting USB device. That's logical because there's no OS 9 driver for the iQue. Somehow Classic then keeps conflicting with OS X attempting to do a hotsync operation all the time.

I remembered that I had a similar problem with my EPSON USB scanner. There were Photoshop-compatible drivers/plugs installed for both Classic and OS X. Whenever Classic was running, the OS 9 driver prevented the OS X driver from loading properly, and I had to quit Classic first to get the scanner working under OS X.

Hope that hint could be useful for some others.

lycestra

09-10-2003, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by crydiger
Got another idea why the plist hacking method doesn't work for some users with the Garmin USB cradle. I found that I always get error messages while trying to hotsync whenever Classic OS 9.2 is running in the backkground! I still have to use it because I need to work with some older applications. Quitting Classic instantly resolves the connect error and everything is running perfectly again.

The reason is that Classic (unlike OS X) recognizes the USB cradle as an USB device at startup. The result is the standard OS 9 alert message (pop-up) that the right software (driver) isn't installed for the conflicting USB device. That's logical because there's no OS 9 driver for the iQue. Somehow Classic then keeps conflicting with OS X attempting to do a hotsync operation all the time.

I remembered that I had a similar problem with my EPSON USB scanner. There were Photoshop-compatible drivers/plugs installed for both Classic and OS X. Whenever Classic was running, the OS 9 driver prevented the OS X driver from loading properly, and I had to quit Classic first to get the scanner working under OS X.

Hope that hint could be useful for some others.

So, what did Epson do? Does Missing Sync fix this?

Maybe that's why VPC can't sync. I just assumed the cradle was little more than a pass-thru. Would making OSX recognise it resolve the issue? or might Classic still grab it too?

I don't use classic, and actually make it a point not to, but its not that hard for me.

This is certainly a huge issue for many users, so if anyone has followups, post them here. I'll try to entertain brain dumps, time permitting. :)

Thanks for the heads up, crydiger.

rkevwill

09-10-2003, 01:57 PM

As an aside, yeah, epson usb printers had some problems when classic was started too. You could print on the classic side, but all of a sudden, you had to jump through some small hoops to print on the X side. A total restart of the computer solves this, until classic is started again.

I really need to finally upgrade quicken to OSX, and to change all my quicktime jpgs from 9 to open in X preview. Otherwise, thats the only classic apps I use any more on my home puter.

BTW, nice going Missing Sync! Thats gonna help a lot of folks:) Maybe I will move my map and install sync'ng at home over to my mac now, instead of doing it on my PC there. I am still doing my sync'ng of my contact, datebook, and to do's on 9.1 with a serial cradle at the office. I will probably switch to X down here now, since my ATI tv Card/adapter now supports X (finally). And I will most certainly use the missing sync down here when I do upgrade.

Lys, and GPS, what did they do to solve the problem on their end, basically the same things you did?

crydiger

09-11-2003, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by lycestra
So, what did Epson do? Does Missing Sync fix this?

Maybe that's why VPC can't sync. I just assumed the cradle was little more than a pass-thru. Would making OSX recognise it resolve the issue? or might Classic still grab it too?

I don't use classic, and actually make it a point not to, but its not that hard for me.

This is certainly a huge issue for many users, so if anyone has followups, post them here. I'll try to entertain brain dumps, time permitting. :)

Thanks for the heads up, crydiger.
lycestra,

the behavior of the EPSON scanner is easy to describe: Whenever a Classic application was in the foreground (frontmost window), the scanner worked well. As soon as I switched to an OS X application, the green "Ready" LED at the scanner started flashing, meaning that there was no stable USB connection anymore, and Photoshop 7 (OS X) couldn't load the OS X driver. Somehow the OS 9 driver gained general priority and blocked its OS X equivalent. The only way to load the OS X driver was quitting Classic completely. Reported that strange error to EPSON, but never got a single line of feedback.

Concerning my iQue experiments I realized from the first day that Classic was recognizing the Garmin cradle as a USB device during startup, popping up with the "no driver found" message. But never thought that there would be a fundamental conflict with OS X.

My assumption is the following: OS 9 USB drivers are classical system extensions (inits) which are loaded into RAM at startup, residing there in sort of a standby mode. In case OS 9 can't find a driver for a connected device (like for the Garmin cradle), it subsequently tries again and again to locate a driver later on, kinda "reserving" the device for later use. That behavior is obviously conflicting with OS X trying to communicate with the same device.

By the way, I tried again to synch under VPC 6.1 (no Classic running) via the Garmin USB cradle. Had no serial connect software running, no virtual COM ports set, checked only "USB" in the Windows HotSync Manager. This causes OS X to totally ignore the Windows environment. The "Palm Handheld" still appears in the VPC list of active USB devices while synching, but the Hotsync is done from the Mac side with the Mac's synching window jumping in front of the Windows desktop. This means that the .IMG map file still must be dragged to OS X to be uploaded to the iQue. But that's not a big deal. I'm happy enough that everything except the map compilation can be done on the Mac side now - because of your outstanding help with the plists.

yolk

09-12-2003, 11:12 PM

Finally got my iQue back from RMA and have been itching to try out the hacks here. Installed Palm Desktop 4.1, then applied lycestra's hack. Started up Hotsync Manager, pressed the button and like magic, it synced !!! :) :) :)

Thank You ! Thank You ! Thank You ! to everyone who contributed and especially to lycestra and GpsMac.

Not to try to install the mapping software on VPC...

crydiger

09-13-2003, 06:17 AM

Wondered why I didn't get any voice prompts, neither in simulation mode, nor while driving. Also, some features and applications other iQue users were talking about weren't available to me. Man, what's still wrong after getting HotSync working under OS X ???

Took me a while to fix that problem. I'm one of the forum members who always trusted in OS X and the Garmin USB cradle because I'd lost patience with the serial solution (IOGear adapter/serial cradle) under VPC 6.1/Windows. So I NEVER had a successful Hotsync on the Windows side after installing the software from the Garmin CD. What I didn't know: This way NO software add-ons and NO voice prompt files are installed on the iQue!

This is how you get this fixed, but note that you do this at your OWN RISK! I'm just another Mac user still struggling with the WinDoze aspects of the iQue. Disclaimer, Discaimer, Disclaimer ...

Just drag the folder C:\Program Files\Palm\Add-on to OS X. Double-click that folder to open it. All contained files from 0001.vpm.pdb ... to ... 0119.vpm.pdb are voice prompt files. All others are add-on application files which can be installed, too. I simply selected all items in the folder and did a Hotsync via the "Send to Handheld" droplet from Palm Desktop 4.1 (OS X). After a soft reset all the voice prompts and all the new apps worked fine.

NOTE: Send the files to "Palm Handheld" (the built-in storage unit), NOT to an external SD card! DO NOT drag the folder as a whole over the droplet, but open it and select all the single items! After synching you might need to do a SOFT RESET. Either the iQue prompts you for doing it, or you do it manually if the voice prompts still don't work.

NOTE: I don't know which user settings could be destroyed by a SOFT RESET!

NOTE: If you subsequently want to install voice prompts for another language than U.S. English (like myself), you'll have to insert the Garmin installation CD again, select "Install Software", then select "Change Voice" to the left and select your desired language. This time the voice prompt files are installed into the folder C:\Program Files\Garmin\Voice. Drag that folder to OS X and proceed as described above. This way the American English prompts will be overwritten by the new language, while the application add-on files will still be there. Now you might again have to do a soft reset after the new hotsync if the new voice prompts don't play!

Hope it'll work for U 2, folks!

Greetings from pre-Oktoberfest Bavaria, Germany

GpsMac

09-13-2003, 10:27 AM

I have done several soft resets and they don't deem to do anything to user preferences.

Another issue that came up that is of general interest. There is a bug that appears if you have Vancouver,BC and Port Angeles,WA maps loaded and Washington set as the default state for QFind.
Your Cities list will only show Point Roberts,WA.

If you try to use qFind to route to an address that only has the city and state
(in WA only) you will crash the OS and will require a soft reset.

The solution is to delete all maps and reinstall without PA,Wa and Vancouver maps.

rkevwill

09-18-2003, 01:43 PM

I'm sure Garmin would not like this info getting out, but.....I installed the patch just fine via my mac palm desktop. (just some info for us unwashed mac types) At least the Ique told me that the patch was installed successfully. I will go grab a palm modem soon and test it. In the meantime, if any of you folks find the patch works, please keep us all informed:)

RKW

lycestra

09-18-2003, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by rkevwill
I'm sure Garmin would not like this info getting out, but.....I installed the patch just fine via my mac palm desktop. (just some info for us unwashed mac types) At least the Ique told me that the patch was installed successfully. I will go grab a palm modem soon and test it. In the meantime, if any of you folks find the patch works, please keep us all informed:)

RKW

does it require a soft reset? It grips me as something that might. (heck, voice changes do.)

thanks for the heads up.

we should put together a page of the mac tips/hints/notes

rkevwill

09-18-2003, 03:29 PM

Yep requires a soft reset. Thats in the "read me" instructions that garmin puts with it on the site. Good clear instructions. and Yep, we keep saying that about putting up a site don't we LOL. Ok, WHO is gonna set aside the time and do that?

Last Mrk

09-18-2003, 04:28 PM

The patch worked great for me and MP3's appear to work better. No problems at all installing the patch but it does require a couple resets.

On a side note. I no longer use the USB/serial cradle on the VPC side to load maps nor do I drag & drop the .img file to the Mac side. (Any buyers for this) :)

I found that I can load maps directly to a USB card reader (using USB) while in Virtual PC using either MapSource or "Map Install" within the Windows Palm Desktop. Speed wise it's about equivalent with the time it takes to create the image in VPC then dragging it over to the Mac side but doesn't require me to remember where the files are and then to go through several layers of folders to find the file.

This may have been mentioned before but this thread has so much GREAT information, I may have missed this being mentioned.

rkevwill

09-18-2003, 05:29 PM

mrk, have you tried any communications programs with it yet? I am REAL interested to see if it works for gettin on the net now. (mostly discussed in another forum)

yolk

09-18-2003, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by rkevwill
Yep requires a soft reset. Thats in the "read me" instructions that garmin puts with it on the site. Good clear instructions. and Yep, we keep saying that about putting up a site don't we LOL. Ok, WHO is gonna set aside the time and do that?
I think this thread has been most useful. As a start, could we make this thread a sticky so that it always appear near the top of the forums ?

Last Mrk

09-18-2003, 06:06 PM

I haven't tried any communication software. If I knew how to do that and what software to try. I may give it a try.

This is my first handheld experience so don't really have a clue how to do this. :)

tierryhenry

09-22-2003, 12:43 PM

Well thanks you lot for warning me - I wont bother with the Garmin then.

A message for Garmin - what a discrace, if you lot are too lazy to work with Mac OS then why dont you launch a Microsoft Pocket PC PDA instead of a Palm.

Just like Sony Ericsson and Symbian with the useless P800 i've bought... they go the non-Microsoft route but only serve the Microsoft desktop users out there.

A bit backward I feel.

Yeah, I know what all you Bill gates fans will say... majority OS blah blah, Macs the minority blah blah

Thanks again anyway.

lycestra

09-22-2003, 01:23 PM

I like my iQue. It does have its issues, but these are actually fewer windows-centric than past Garmin GPSes. You needed a PC back then too, and a PC to talk to them. in the case of the iQue, Garmin took a very different route.

First, this is the first device they have come out with where they were not in complete control of the operating environment. With other GPSes, they were embedded, limited devices. The iQue is a full Palm PDA, which means having to make sure it runs all those other things, in an OS that Garmin does not get ultimate freedom with. In fact, they have integrated things very well, into the GPS function, such that the /standard/ Palm communication conduits (cradles and prc/pdb files) are actually used to set up ALL of Garmin's extentions, even the Mapping!

This was no easy task, I'm sure. They could not take a GPS and cram Palm function into it. that would have been unnatural for the Palm environment, and totally sucked. They HAD to take a high powered (highest powered?) Palm and cram in GPS hardware and software. and integrate them together to get the added function they have (contact, calendar integration, etc) to the point that the iQue is more than the sum of its parts.

But, with this new territory for Garmin, bugs lurked. Some in the community feel Garmin did not beta-test the device enough. While I do agree to a point, I also beleive they have done an excellent job of supporting the community as best they could to overcome these issues. Already, a software patch exists for many of the known issues that plagued the early adopters.

Now, on the topic of mac support, Garmin has a poor track record, in that they don't support Macs at all. I do have a problem with that, but I don't see Garmin to be as hostile to Mac as other users see them. Having to explain to mac users they need a PC to sync maps, and that VPC doesn't work with it on native USB. (likely a VPC issues if you ask me, but thats my opinion. other palms do work...) It's just a whole can of worms they didn't want to open. To fix that, they would have had to devote enough resourses to port their Mapping program to Mac. Apparantly, they have not seen the need for this, as the mac community that does use their devices seem to tolerate the lack of native mac support. (read: if you want Mac map support, tell them (nicely)) However, with that single exception of map building, my experience has been that the iQue is fully compatible with Palm Desktop in Mac OS X, with minor modifications (ones that I think Garmin, as a Palm Licensee, could make themselves). So, in effect, they just stood aside, and let the community take the reigns, and we have. As wrong as that may sound, it is a prudent thing to do at this stage. Next round, I hope Garmin takes charge and gets the results we all would like to see.

I have used my iQue for the past few weeks with few problems, and is as flawless as any other PalmOS device I have tried. It syncs correctly and quickly, I can't find anything wrong with it.

And as a GPS, it falls a little short of some of their previous embedded options, but it still totally wins in the market it has chosen. The next gen will surely clean up on the issues.

Long story short, I think Garmin has done an excellent job of hardware and software engineering, and with the assistance of early adopters, they have made their first device that extends far beyond just being a GPS a huge achievement. Shortcomings exist, and we have managed to overcome those, in some cases without the help of Garmin. The only serious one to us Mac users is the lack of a Mac mapping program, which would require many resources on their part. I only hope they take heed of this community and bring us into the pack, where we would like to be.

That's my review/rant. It's probably not very balenced or even fair, but it was my soap box for a minute or two. :)

2 cents please.

Last Mrk

09-22-2003, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by lycestra
and that VPC doesn't work with it on native USB. (likely a VPC issues if you ask me, but thats my opinion. other palms do work...)

Well it will load detailed maps to a USB SD card reader using MapSource. Speed wise it's not too bad either..

rkevwill

09-22-2003, 03:28 PM

Ya know what. I am starting to drift further and further to what I think is a much simpler solution to the whole thing for me. I love the Ique for what it is, and not sure if I am willing to push it to make it what it isn't. I love the Ique for its ease in entering and finding addresses, and for playing palm games etc. However, I really need a pda that is great for wifi, dial in, and gsm access for email and the web. Right now, the Tungsten C fits that for the most part. (wish it had bluetooth).

I understand, the grapevine says that palm is coming out with some blockbuster new pda's soon, and I for one can't wait. Although I will try some of these other technologies on the Ique (like the palm modem cause I can use it with the tungsten C), I am beginning to treat the Ique for what it is. An inexpensive, and very unique GPS device. As far as its interaction with the mac, well, we know how to handle that these days, and it works a LOT better with the mac than other garmin devices (at least for me).

To make the Ique a device that does everything for everyone, might not be worth some of our effort, and in the end, might even be less expensive to just go buy a different palm to do those things, and have 2 palms! Who knows, just making some conversation here.

Which reminds me of one thing.....Has anyone noticed the Ique seems to notify of turns etc, a bit later than the street pilot did? Sometimes its almost like I am outdriving the notifications. And many times, when it says 400 feet, I may be like 100 feet from that location. (yes, its on waas).

lycestra

09-22-2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by rkevwill
Ya know what. I am starting to drift further and further to what I think is a much simpler solution to the whole thing for me. I love the Ique for what it is, and not sure if I am willing to push it to make it what it isn't. I love the Ique for its ease in entering and finding addresses, and for playing palm games etc. However, I really need a pda that is great for wifi, dial in, and gsm access for email and the web. Right now, the Tungsten C fits that for the most part. (wish it had bluetooth).

...

To make the Ique a device that does everything for everyone, might not be worth some of our effort, and in the end, might even be less expensive to just go buy a different palm to do those things, and have 2 palms! Who knows, just making some conversation here.

Fair enough. Tho i'm not a beleiver for a do-all pda. thats what latpops are for, and consumer demand always exceeds capacity in tech at the moment. That's why so many PDAs exist. For connectivity, iQue is certainly not the one. Depends on what the target market is. As a comparison, as far as I can tell, the iQue is exactly what I was looking for. My profile is that I was looking for a palm that I would use, which means being more useful than paper. I could care less about connectivity, because my powerbook is much better at it. But I can't whip out a laptop in 3 seconds. (the iQue's flip-DOWN lid is odd for this tho) I also was looking for a good car GPS (likely Garmin. friends have a 3, 3+, and V), and expecting to spend around $500, just on that. The iQue mixed these perfectly. Plus, to go with the car side, I found a $250 cable/software to hook up the iQue (or any palm) to my car's computer (ODBII port. product name is Dyno-Scan for those who want to know). So even more utility. I knew there were going to be bumps, and am glad that many have been ironed out, so I can use my iQue for exactly what I wanted. But my desires differ, so if you do want more of something, don't let anyone hold you back.

Freedom to decide.

Which reminds me of one thing.....Has anyone noticed the Ique seems to notify of turns etc, a bit later than the street pilot did? Sometimes its almost like I am outdriving the notifications. And many times, when it says 400 feet, I may be like 100 feet from that location. (yes, its on waas).

I got that alot near chicago this weekend. construction on the tollway taunted me to tell my iQue to avoid toll roads. The turn instructions did seem to lag quite late at times. It probably expects you to slow down before it says anything... Found some neat backroads while i was busy not getting lost. ;)

rkevwill

09-22-2003, 05:10 PM

oh man, the construction on the tollway was NUTHIN compared to the traffic on 90/94 from mid-city up to Ohare area. Couple weeks ago we got caught in that, and darn near missed the start of our concert at the Ravina Festival. Anyway, yep, I have been noticing you need to be alert to the next turn, ahead of the Ique's instructions. Seems to be a touch late to me, compared to my SPlll that I had. But, not enough to be overly concerned with.

yolk

09-23-2003, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by rkevwill
Which reminds me of one thing.....Has anyone noticed the Ique seems to notify of turns etc, a bit later than the street pilot did? Sometimes its almost like I am outdriving the notifications. And many times, when it says 400 feet, I may be like 100 feet from that location. (yes, its on waas).
Hey, I noticed that too... I have not used a SP3 before but I always felt that the iQue was a little slow. Initially I thought that it was because I was bad at judging distances but ...

Anyway, my first thought was that the 400 feet refered to the point when the voice starts speaking - by the time the voice is done, we are probably much closer to the turn.

One other thing that I did notice is that when you are coming up to a turn, there is a countdown to the turn and the point when I make the turn is usually about 50-80 feet from when the iQue says I should turn. I suspect this could either be due to GPS errors or the fact that the iQue expects you to make the turn in the middle of the junction whereas we think of the turn as when we hit the junction (especially for right turns).

Last Mrk

09-23-2003, 10:47 AM

There is a learning process on the part of the user. The iQue does give preliminary alerts such as point six miles, point three miles then comes the warnings about how many feet.

When I first started using it, I wanted to begin looking for my turn when I first got an alert. Now I wait for the 400 or 500 feet warnings but prepare for the turn on the earlier alerts.

rkevwill

09-23-2003, 10:48 AM

I wrote garmin about this issue yesterday. Had meant to do it a while back, but......

Anyway, noticed it, and kind of tested that fact a bit, by paying additional attention to it. No question it comes on and notifies late.

I would suggest anyone that has noticed this slight flaw to please write Garmin also. No way they are gonna fix it just because I mentioned it. It would need a few dozen emails to get their attention I am sure.

We probably should put this on another thread too.

Robertp366

09-23-2003, 01:27 PM

I've not seen this problem here in LA. Even the surface roads that are divided (two lanes each way) are seperate roads on the detailed map. Similarly, freeway intersections include specific on and off ramps as seperate roads. The related intersections with the surface roads are at the on-ramp turn, and I get good warning in advance - in fact I find it a bit annoying. Do you have the option in map preferences under guidance set to "Show Location on Roads" and the detail set to max??

Or maybeyou aren't using the detailed map database?

Good luck

Robert

rkevwill

09-23-2003, 01:32 PM

oh yes, max detail, waas, all that good stuff. Nope, its not the detail or the correctness of the issue, its the fact that it says "400 feet" or something similar, and you are at about 150 feet or so. Frankly, unless you are REAL familiar with their street pilot, which seemed right on, you would probably not even notice the difference.

It just seems to notify a touch later than it does on the street pilot. As I said, no big deal, but if you are going 70 miles an hour, and in heavy traffic, it could be a big deal to those not aware of the issue. Just an area they could improve on just a touch.

rkevwill

09-23-2003, 01:40 PM

oops, one more thing. Robert, after reading your reply once more, Probably I should have been more clear in my response. I am not saying the detail, or the map issues are wrong. All that is first class, and just great. All I am saying is the voice prompts seem to be off in their distances. If indeed, it should come on at 400 feet (or maybe even 450-400 to take in consideration speed), at present, it says "turn right in 400 feet" but it says that at about 150-200 feet distance, least thats where it FIRST starts saying that. Noticeably different than my Street Pilot did.

And again, yes, to detail max, location, waas, all that good stuff is being used. That shouldn't affect the voice and distances (maybe waas does), just the detail of the maps, and the location of the triangle etc. Distance on prompts, not detail of maps is what I'm noticing is a bit off.

Robertp366

09-23-2003, 01:43 PM

As I said, I get plenty of warning, and the 400 feet is really about 400 feet. Try //map/preferences/tracks/interval/most often? Even at this setting I find some intersections the trail cut across the corners of small intersections because the data points are about once per second. Still that's only about 100 feet at 70 mph. I even get warnings well ahead of fwy intersections.

Don't try exiting a fwy in heavy traffic from the #1 lane at 70 mph in 400 feet! ;-))

BTW I find battery lasts longer when hiking if this item is turned way down, to least often. Track intervals are many seconds, but on foot that's not a real problem.

Robert

rkevwill

09-23-2003, 03:00 PM

Robert, its good to hear your's seems to be measuring properly. All I can say is when I checked it just for kicks, the street pilot lll (wana buy it? its gonna be on ebay LOL) notifies a couple of seconds before the Ique, and both say (in this one situation) "turn in 400 feet"

Perhaps its just the locations, or curvature of the earth, or who KNOWS what, but there is no doubt in my mind, from gut feeling, and then testing it, that it notifies a bit later than what I am used to. Nor do I have a doubt on the distance being a bit off.

Again, not enough to be a big concern, but does seem to be an area for improvement.

CinderK

09-24-2003, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by rkevwill
Robert, its good to hear your's seems to be measuring properly. All I can say is when I checked it just for kicks, the street pilot lll (wana buy it? its gonna be on ebay LOL) notifies a couple of seconds before the Ique, and both say (in this one situation) "turn in 400 feet"
...

Are you using maps derived from the same mapping product (i.e. City Select 5, etc.) in both devices? One thing that would make sense, if this is not the case, is that the streets might be in slightly different locations across different kinds of maps.

I made sure to watch the distance-to-turn readout as the voice prompts started notifying me of upcoming turns. It seemed to display the proper number as soon as it started talking. For example, when it said "<tone> In 400 feet, turn right" the distance displayed was very close to 400 feet.

I admit, I've sometimes thought the distances to be a little off too. However, I think they're pretty close. I'm guessing that they're pretty much attributed to the difference between the map data and the quality of your GPS fix. I also think it may be because it updates only once per second (so there's a bit of a visual lag with what you're picturing mentally) and since I usually won't bother to look at it until it's partway thru its turn announcement (so it's usually down 100 or so feet by then).

Regardless, I don't seem to have any trouble realizing that a turn it coming up. If I'm going highway speeds, it usually gives me at least 1.5 miles advance warning. Also, if I'm in unfamiliar territory, I usually try to keep a mental note of how far it it to the next turn and on which side it lies.

There was one time that it told me to turn left, but when I got there, the only way to head left was to exit right and follow a circular exit that eventually looped around to the left. Even with this surprise, I was able to make the exit safely, without running anybody off the road or flattening any small animals or saplings. ;) I looked at the map later and discovered that the reason why it told me to exit left was that the ramp to the right was not on the map. Oh well, I guess the way it currently works, we'll never have totally up-to-date map data.

CinderK

PS -- Just to stay a bit more on topic with this thread, I guess I should mention "Mac" in saying that I don't own a Mac, but I do have an iQue.

rkevwill

09-24-2003, 09:02 PM

Indeed, it gives you plenty of advance warning, and it gives you a visual guidance so you can stay on your tiptoes for the turn. Lets don't get too hung up on what maps, if I am doing this that or the other. Answer is, I am using the supplied detailed maps, as I am on the street pilot lll. Yes I am using waas, and using the highest detail. (after all it is plugged in the car, not running on battery) And yes, I have a 3d satellite reception. (remember, I said this was either on its own antenna, or on the excellent external antenna, didn't matter)

Fact is, no matter how much we debate it, when put in the car side by side, the street pilot notifies the "turn in 400 feet" a second or two before the Ique, in every instance I saw. (and the street pilot has ONLY its default antenna connected). Notification a couple of seconds earlier, going 60-70 miles an hour IS a big difference.

As I said, doesn't make that much difference, especially when you know of the discrepancy.

Nevertheless, I have notified garmin of this, to two different areas, and got a nice response from both of them. One said it was very helpful to have compared the two units. My guess is this will be looked at for the next mapping update.

Otherwise, my Ique is performing admirably, and I think its just way too cool:)

lycestra

09-24-2003, 11:18 PM

a preliminary page of a howto and Mac faq.

http://www.lycestra.com/ique_mac.html

It's missing a lot of questions, easily understandable howtos, and a smiling donut.

I'll also be adding a credits page too.

Give feedback, tear me a new one, or whatever. Probably won't be able to get back to it until this weekend, but I'll try.

I'm a geek/coder, not a web guy. The page is hideous. :)

Also, i dunno how to handle the whole "PDiQue for free, Missing Sync has more and is supported for $$$" thing. I don't want to hurt Mark/Space's market, but I also think plain old syncing should be free. Chances are, 'average' mac users should spend the money for piece of mind, support, and the integrated mac experience, while experimentors like many of us might prefer PDiQue. (honestly, i have an iPod for music and a Canon for photos, so i'm fine with just PDiQue)

Thanks guys.

Last Mrk

09-24-2003, 11:43 PM

Thanks for putting the page up. This is very helpful and shows that nothing beats the Mac community.

"If you intend to use VPC, know that you can only sync your iQue with VPC using serial (very slow). However, you do not need to sync your iQue with VPC"

The above from your Mac/iQue information page, although totally true because hot syncing can't be done with VPC using USB, it should be noted that the detailed maps can be loaded directly to the SD card using USB if you are using a card reader and the MapSource 5.2 software.

lycestra

09-24-2003, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by Last Mrk
Thanks for putting the page up. This is very helpful and shows that nothing beats the Mac community.

"If you intend to use VPC, know that you can only sync your iQue with VPC using serial (very slow). However, you do not need to sync your iQue with VPC"

The above from your Mac/iQue information page, although totally true because hot syncing can't be done with VPC using USB, it should be noted that the detailed maps can be loaded directly to the SD card using USB if you are using a card reader and the MapSource 5.2 software.

Ok. Added. Not sure about the grammar. Vim editing. I should start using something more fitting.

Is MapSource 5.2 downloadable? Link? anything special on how to make that mesh with a preinstalled MapInstall?

rkevwill

09-25-2003, 12:44 AM

originally posted by RobertP366

As I said, I get plenty of warning, and the 400 feet is really about 400 feet. Try //map/preferences/tracks/interval/most often? Even at this setting I find some intersections the trail cut across the corners of small intersections because the data points are about once per second. Still that's only about 100 feet at 70 mph. I even get warnings well ahead of fwy intersections.

Robert, after seeing your suggestion here, I went and checked my Ique, and this particular setting was on "normal." I have changed this to "most often" to see if it makes a noticeable difference. This weekend, I will be on a little trip, and I will compare it side by side with the Street pilot to see if it makes any difference. Using logic, it seems it may. I thank you for your heads up and suggestion.

rkevwill

09-25-2003, 12:52 AM

Robert, I just checked the help file, and it says track (in your instructions) is when the tracks are recorded. How does that help with the distance notifications? Educate me here.

Robertp366

09-25-2003, 06:13 AM

The track function leaves a small dotted trail ("breadcrumbs") which is hard to see, but is the route that QueTracks logs. When you save a track from the log, this is the trail that is saved. The interval of the dots is set by Que/preferences/tracks/interval/(Five choices from most often to least often).

The track is drqwn by connecting the dots; I've noticed that when I am on the losest settings, corners sometimes get cut with one point some distance (depends on interval and speed) before the turn and the next one some distance after. And even worse cases have happened when I turn Que/preferences/maps/Show Locations/on roads ot ///at gps location.

This means the track does not "stick" to the road in the database. After playing with a few cases, it is possible to have fairly substantial errors, even if the quoted gps accuracy is small. Best I've seen in the GPS window with both WAAS satellites and 7 or 8 others is 12.7 feet. But the position was 45 feet off the road I was standing on.

Then again, the road was 4 lanes of 12 feet each plus shoulders and curbs and sidewalks and center divider (Thousand Oaks Blvd), and the map just showed two lines.....

I don't know if that's gps error or map error, or just datum differences. With track intervals as slow as 5 seconds, at 88 feet per second (60 mph), you can see there is plenty of opportunity for gaps in reporting times or distances.

The time intervals may be the differences between the SPIII and th iQue. Anybody know what the track interval of the SPIII is? The iQue is definitely variable with settings.

BTW I'd like to add my thanks to all the contributors here to the Mac compatibility solutions, and especially to Lycestra for elegant work. Garmin should send you a paycheck!!

I too now sync - including loading new palm apps and basemaps (GMAPBMAP database file) - in OS X. As others, I still need to go to VPC to run Mapsourse to create detailed maps. But I just put these in a VPC shared folder, and in OS X copy them to a formatted card with my SD card reader in the finder. Take that Bill Gates.

I sure wish I could add bits to a detailed map without essentially recompiling the whole thing! Hey Garmin, are you listening?

Gonna try transfering topo maps next...... Delorme says to use their Xmap Handheld Pro for palm 5 and their topos quads. Quads are raster images of the USGS sheets, so its different from the vector map files form their street atlas, or Garmin's MapSource...... I have both Delorme and Garmin Topos, as well as the Nat'l Geo Topo Quads for California on CD or DVD(delorme). Stay tuned.

When in my car, I use ////on roads and ///most often and ///WAAS enabled, which seems to give the finest track resolution, and switch to the lowest ones when hiking. But sometimes I forget to make the changes........

rkevwill

09-25-2003, 09:29 AM

Well, I will try the most often setting, but from what I understand (er-perceive) the track preference is just the recording of the track, which to my way of thinking, has nothing to do with the reporting of distances.

However, what the heck do I know, so again I appreciate the suggestion, and I will try this to see if it makes any difference.

Again, I should re-iterate, its really not that big of a deal as far as its navigation, but I've become so particular in my old age.

Only one time did it seem to confuse me, which was on one of those interstate exits where when you exited, you had about three OTHER exits coming off the one main exit.

champ

09-25-2003, 07:36 PM

I just received my iQue 3600 yesterday. I spent a very late, frustrating evening trying to install the software. I am using Virtual PC 6.1 with Windows 2000 Professional to do the installation. I'm getting absolutely nowhere.

I start up the Setup CD and get the setup screen. I choose Install Software. A new window appears. I click on Install Palm Desktop. A window appears where i see "Configuring Windows Installer," a progress bar goes all the way across, then it says "Preparing to Install." A progress bar goes about a fourth of the way across, then stops. After a few seconds, a dialog pops up, which says "The wizard was interrupted before Palm Desktop for Garmin iQue could be completely installed." The only option is "Finish." Nothing happens when I click Finish.

I have tried reinstalling Windows 2000 (several times) and installing on both my Desktop G4 and Powerbook 17", all to no avail.

I understand that I can't hotsync using VPC and the USB cradle, but I can't even install the base software!

Some questions:

Anyone seen this behavior or have any suggestions?

Can I somehow install the .prc and .pdb files manually? I've purchased Missing Sync for Garmin.

rkevwill

09-25-2003, 08:41 PM

not to be curt or flippant here, but you have a lot of reading to do. You can't use the usb cradle at all, on VPC. You can use a serial cradle with an Iogear adapter, to install the basic software. Its a bit slow, but it works.

After you do the initial installation of the mapping files and all that garmin stuff, yes, you can use missing sync to sync everything via usb. And yes, you can use your mac via usb to transfer the detailed maps etc later, but you have to install the basemaps and the setup software with a real PC, or with virtual PC, a serial adapter, and an IOgear adapter. (I think I am correct in all that, rest of you guys fill in the blanks and correct me where I am wrong)

Most importantly, go to lycestra's post a bit up from here, he is setting up a page that will be very helpful to you. You SHOULD read all the posts back for a month or so, you will get a lot of good info. Pay special attention to GPSMac, and Lycestra. (sp)

rkevwill

09-25-2003, 09:06 PM

One more thing. (I always forget to say something) You SHOULD be able to install the palm desktop software, and the map software on either of your computers via the windows install disk (in vpc) with no problem. Haven't heard of any problems there. Only problems you should have, is transferring the files to the Ique.

Hopefully one of the other techier types here might be able to shed some more light on your problem.

champ

09-25-2003, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by rkevwill
One more thing. (I always forget to say something) You SHOULD be able to install the palm desktop software, and the map software on either of your computers via the windows install disk (in vpc) with no problem. Haven't heard of any problems there. Only problems you should have, is transferring the files to the Ique.

Yeah, that's exactly my problem. I am not trying to sync with VPC, just trying to install the Palm software and the map software. My earlier post stated the exact steps I took and where it failed, but maybe I wasn't clear. I thought I was trying to follow everything I've read on the forum and on lycestra's web page. The installer simply will not work.

I'm beginning to think I have a bad CD, but I thought I'd see if anyone had any suggestions before I have to go to Garmin and hear them say "we don't support Macs." Unfortunately, I don't have a PC to try the CD on.

lycestra

09-25-2003, 10:00 PM

yeah. The page. I spent so much time formatting, and not ideas and grammar, it is hard to read.

I just figured out that my formatting is exactly fitting of a program I have called NoteTaker. And, NoteTaker can export to web.

So, expect my notes to take the form of an online lab book. With full indexing.

NoteTaker rules.... its rules hard core :)

its going to be at http://www.lycestra.com/iQueDoc/
work in progress.

rkevwill

09-25-2003, 11:00 PM

Champ, as a long time VPC user, I might mention one thing that I have noticed with VPC. Even though, I have a dual processor g4, with 1.5 gig of ram, it STILL sometimes installs some programs very very slow. What I mean is, you may notice some lengthy pauses during installation, just give them time and let them complete. (sometimes a couple of minutes or more) Also, maybe move around a window or two, and see if there is an alert window behind another window. Both things have confused me, and freaked me out in the past.

Also, one thing thats extremely important. There are two installation disks. Follow the instructions very carefully. Install disk one....then it asks for disk two....then you need to put disk one back in, to get the installation to complete. THEN...you need to select the additional software to install, etc etc., when disk one is in this second time. Remember, NONE of this is installed on the palm, its installed on the pc, and is placed in a spot to be installed on the palm, on the next sync.

Just remember, that if and when it asks you to sync, ya can't do it with the usb and mac itself without some outside help. (lycestra's little app, or Missing Sync) You CAN sync via serial, and vpc.

I don't know if this helps you at all, but hope it does

champ

09-26-2003, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by rkevwill
Champ, as a long time VPC user, I might mention one thing that I have noticed with VPC. Even though, I have a dual processor g4, with 1.5 gig of ram, it STILL sometimes installs some programs very very slow. What I mean is, you may notice some lengthy pauses during installation, just give them time and let them complete. (sometimes a couple of minutes or more) Also, maybe move around a window or two, and see if there is an alert window behind another window. Both things have confused me, and freaked me out in the past.

Also, one thing thats extremely important. There are two installation disks. Follow the instructions very carefully. Install disk one....then it asks for disk two....then you need to put disk one back in, to get the installation to complete. THEN...you need to select the additional software to install, etc etc., when disk one is in this second time. Remember, NONE of this is installed on the palm, its installed on the pc, and is placed in a spot to be installed on the palm, on the next sync.

Thanks so much for trying to help. I, too, am a long-time VPC user (since version 1), so I'm used to the long installs. Unfortunately, that is not the case here. I am definitely getting an error message. The installer says that it has finished, but that it was "interrupted before Palm Desktop for Garmin iQue could be completely installed." I sure didn't interrupt it, but was sitting watching it work.

You mention 2 CDs. I only have one setup CD. Are you referring to the Mapsource CD as the second CD? I am never asked to insert another CD. I would think that would happen after the Palm Software and base maps were installed. But I'm never getting to that point. Sure enough, there is no Palm software installed.

I tried one more thing tonight. After completely reinstalling Windows 2000 Pro, I used the installer package "Palm Desktop for Garmin iQue.msi" in the PalmDesktop folder rather than Setup.exe at the root level of the CD. This installed, leaving me quite excited. However, when I opened Palm Desktop it said the configuration was invalid and there was no user folder created in My Documents. So, no success there.

I'm a long-time (since 1986) Mac user and VPC user, so I don't think I'm inept. It just won't install. After now 12 hours of trying to install the darn thing, I'm very frustrated! I'm pretty well convinced it's a bad CD, but I dread the thought of trying to convince Garmin to replace it since I'm not using a PC. I can hear their response.