I refer to both the very recent launch of the Netbook pro win ce.NET and the comments I read on the latest postings here in order to update you all about the most recent developments of the petition.
Beyond the understandable feelings at the view of the first official images, I wish I would underline the fact that everything we are seeing it is just the result of decisions taken many months ago, when neither the petition nor any kind of news regarding ce.NET as the only OS supported for the new netBook were available.
The petition results are still to be seen. the number of endorsers reached quota 1820 at the time of writing and keeps on growing steadily. Please note that it has been promoted ONLY via word-of-mouth on the psion forums and newsgroups, as well as on many developers' epoc/symbian-related sites.
Even a number of pda e-magazines whose correspondents usually frequent the forums mentioned it. Anyway, advertising for it on other media has been avoided as no one did absolutely want that this initiative were to be misinterpreted as an anti-Microsoft campaign.
The spirit of the petition, once again, it is *not* against PT's decision of releasing a Psion netBook pro with Windows CE.net (which this initiative do absolutely respect in full), but it is just in favour of developing a *second* OS option, that is a Symbian OS one.
the reason that no much noise has been made in this period is due to the fact that no one wished to disturb the launch of the nB pro ce.net in any way because of a genuine loyalty to Psion and PT. But now that is over and done with, it is time to announce the next move.
In fact, it is my task and in the meantime my pleasure to inform you that in order to maximize the results reached by the above-mentioned initiative, the petition promoters founded a small working team - but very motivated indeed - formed by some representatives of international Psion/Epoc/Symbian discussion forums and professional developers with close ties to the enterprise world, targeted market for PT.
Some fellow enthusiasts complete the team. All these individuals share common values of belonging to the Symbian community.
The aim of this group is highlight to PT some subjects such as the following:
1) Symbian is *NOT* only an OS for mobile phones.
as often it has been said in the past, if you manage to take out the phone part out of a 9210i you will find the evolution of our beloved original ER5 OS. the same would apply if you'd do the same with a P800. the excellence of EPOC is still there, with updated performing capabilities ranging from better security, bluetooth, unicode etc...
2) there is a *sound* business case for a Symbian OS netBook pro in the enterprise market.
3) the development of such an OS-equipped machine would be absolutely complementary to the nB pro win ce.NET.
the result will be a series of documents including both a careful analysis of potential addressable enterprise markets for a Symbian nB pro, and a detailed technical analysys.
Everything will be delivered to PT - together with the petition signatures - as soon as the work is ready.
No further details are available at the moment except for the fact that the team technicians carefully studied the netbook pro hardware specs which were publically available on a french internet site last august and managed to find out that a wide compatibility already exists between the nB pro hardware and one of the most recent versions of Symbian OS..
Please be patient enough to wait for the material to be finished and delivered as the people involved in this task are all dealing with it as a voluntary action and each one of them is currenly busy with his respective occupation.
As a result, the match ain't over yet
This announcement will be repeated on some of the most important international and national forums. Please be kind enough to let it go around as much as you can.
All the very best
SYMBIANfully yours
markdeppe
10-08-2003, 04:49 PM
Thanks Gianluca,
Beautifully put:
wanman
10-09-2003, 04:18 AM
Stunning work cangiante. I look forward to your further advices and wish you every success in your venture...mmmm netBook pro with symbian.
cshandley
10-09-2003, 11:52 AM
Gianluca,
I look forward to seeing what gets produced, but I am fairly sceptical now about any possible success. To me it seems that PsionT wish to target a *very* limited market, and thus they will ignore anything outside of that.
Personally I think taking limited-risk for new markets is worth-while, but then again I don't know what the bank balance of PsionT is like...
---
Chris Handley
petitluc
10-13-2003, 04:14 AM
Hi,
here is a french translation of the Gianluca's post, in order to inform french only readers about the avancement of the petition.
Hope that it will help.
Luc
Bonjour,
voici la version française du texte de Gianluca afin que les non-anglophiles puisse profiter de ce point sur l'état d'avancement de la pétition.
J'espère que cela pourra aider.
Luc
petitluc
10-13-2003, 04:55 AM
I wrote :
...afin que les non-anglophiles puisse profiter...
and I must apologize : I wanted to write "anglophone"...I wonder what Dr Freud would think about that :D
J'ai écrit :
...afin que les non-anglophiles puisse profiter...
et je m'excuse platement : il fallait bien sûr lire "anglophone"... Ah, lapsus....
cangiante
10-13-2003, 02:40 PM
Thanks very much Luc for your kind help and commitment!
I wish to acnowledge also King Midas from www.mypsion.ru for the Russian translation:
http://www.mypsion.ru/library.php?aid=1622
thanks very much also to all the friends who kindly wrote us PMs or emails from all over the world to express their support.
Last, but not least, we are grateful also to everybody who expressed their criticism. Constructive criticism is exactly what we need...
all the very best
markdeppe
10-13-2003, 02:47 PM
Wise Words
"Every time you are tempted to react in the same old way, ask if you want to be a prisoner of the past or a pioneer of the future."
---Deepak Chopra
I think that the spell checker of Dr. Chopra machine messed up there as the original I am sure said "Psioneer" not "pioneer" ;-)
Thanks to Gianluc et al for keeping hope alive, its a powerful force, just because psion have bailed out in the past, or MS have brought everyone out, that does not mean the future holds the same.
BradC
10-16-2003, 11:07 AM
We have to stop wasting our time with PT as they are run by idiots. The only way were going to see a Symbian clamshell like the Netbook is if we petition another company to make one. And actually one already has. The Symbian OS Nokia 9290 Communicater is a wireless data handheld that combines PDA, mobile office, messaging and e-mail, internet access, and cellphone. It handles documents, spreadsheets, etc and can be sychonized with windows. Emails can be sent with attachements. If Nokia were to increase the screen size of the screen and keyboard to what the Netbook is, I think we would have nearly everything we want. Lets make our case known to Nokia and see what they can do.
Agreed with BradC.
"We have to stop wasting our time with PT as they are run by idiots."
I would change "idiots" to " marketing idiots." The engineering guys are great except for the ribbon cable.
cshandley
10-20-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by cslim
Agreed with BradC.
"We have to stop wasting our time with PT as they are run by idiots."
I would change "idiots" to "marketing idiots."
So nothings changed since around the time Psion produced the 5mx/Revo (other
people may know exactly when Psion went downhill?), where they decided we don't
need colour screens, or user-replacable batteries for the Revo... :-(
In fact, you have to wonder if Psion isn't a sub-division of the Sirius
Cybernetics Corporation ;-) (see H2G2)
dushaw
10-20-2003, 05:36 PM
My recent copy of the Economist has a blurb on how the PDA is out and hybrid phones are in:
"Why carry both a phone and a PDA around, when you can carry a single hybrid device"
(October 18-24th, 2003; page 63).
And in particular:
"The PDA is dead," says David Levin, the boss of Symbian, the leading maker of smartphone software. Anssi Vanjoki of Nokia, the world's biggest mobilephone maker agrees. PDAs without wireless connectivity are doomed, he says."
It would seem that the tide is against the netBook pro + Symbian, as a PDA.
I don't wish to be negative, however; this e-mail is more along the lines of "know thy enemy" (but I wouldn't consider Symbian the enemy, to be sure; others might be better at that... :) )
B.D.
P.S. In the mean time, I've learned of:
http://www.kurnspatrick.com/pda.htm
the Sharp SL-C760 (w/linux) for $700...stop me now before I purchase again!!! But Sharp isn't even bothering to market this in the West...
cshandley
10-21-2003, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by dushaw
It would seem that the tide is against the netBook pro + Symbian, as a
PDA.
Was the Pro ever considered as a PDA? I thought it was for business markets
(running some custom software), or maybe as a companion to a Symbian phone?
MartinMaxwell
10-21-2003, 05:13 AM
Totally agree. If the netBook is dead because it happens to have some PDA features, then smartphones are dead too.
netBook is a PDA as much as a SUV is a roadster, and a food-processor is a drink mixer.
dushaw
10-21-2003, 05:21 AM
Well, fair enough gentlemen! I suppose I merely wanted to convey the quote from Mr. Symbian....
BradC
10-21-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by MartinMaxwell
Totally agree. If the netBook is dead because it happens to have some PDA features, then smartphones are dead too.
netBook is a PDA as much as a SUV is a roadster, and a food-processor is a drink mixer.
Martin- I'm a bit disappointed, your usually the brains on this forum who knows the technical background behind all the hardware and software that we discuss here. But you are misconstruing a very simple point: the PDA is dead if it doesn't take advantage of integrating fully its software over a cellular network. Its not enough just to combine a cellphone and PDA such as the Treo or Tungsten W, all information has to be able to move over the network seamlessly. Palm has already announced that they are going to develope a "data centric" PDA to handle this new type of networking, and they are reverting back to OS 4 to do it. I dont think its correct to call these new kind of PDAs smartphones as smartphones are really just handsets with some added data functionality. The Netbook is just a PDA, and the PDA is dead. For many months we told PT exactly what to do to give the Netbook this kind of functionality. But they ignored us, they lost their chance to be the first to get into this exploding market. And they only have their own stupidity to blame for it.
WolfUK
10-21-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by BradC
Palm has already announced that they are going to develope a "data centric" PDA to handle this new type of networking, and they are reverting back to OS 4 to do it.Really? Do you have any more information about this?
I dont think its correct to call these new kind of PDAs smartphones as smartphones are really just handsets with some added data functionality.But devices like the Treo (old and the new 600) are phones that use the Palm operating system and are arguably more PDA than phone. Similarly, the P800 is surely more than just a phone with a few bits of data functionality?
For many months we told PT exactly what to do to give the Netbook this kind of functionality. But they ignored us, they lost their chance to be the first to get into this exploding market. And they only have their own stupidity to blame for it.Since Teklogix have no interest in this particular exploding market why would they want to listen? Teklogix are not interested in the consumer market nor are they interested in making PDAs (and the NETBOOk Pro is certainly not a PDA).
eriksandblom
10-21-2003, 05:06 PM
Two things; one, here is the Economist article (get it before they move it to the archive!)
Two, let's not get upset over definitions and death.
We all (ok almost all) want a Symbian Netbook but would likely also settle for a big Nokia 9200 with a better keyboard. Wether this is called a PDA or something else, and wether or not you can make phonecalls on it, is secondary.
Sign and tell your friends...
http://www.petitiononline.com/nbookpro/
BradC
10-21-2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by WolfUK
Really? Do you have any more information about this?
Thanks Brad. However the article is over a year old and the device refered to is the Palm Tungsten W which is a direct competitor to devices like the Treos (apart from the Treo 600 now that Palm own Handspring).
Details about the T|W can be found at http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-w/
BradC
10-21-2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by WolfUK
Thanks Brad. However the article is over a year old and the device refered to is the Palm Tungsten W
Whoops!
WolfUK
10-22-2003, 04:05 AM
LOL ... At least you've highlighted a PDA with a keyboard to some others. :p
cshandley
10-22-2003, 04:07 AM
Originally posted by eriksandblom
We all (ok almost all) want a Symbian Netbook but would likely also settle for a
big Nokia 9200 with a better keyboard.
I don't know about anyone else, but the keyboard is the LEAST of my concerns
about the Nokia 9200:
- Touch screen is essential for me. (Hence keyboarded TabletPC not laptop for
me). If I wanted to be a Keyboard Shortcut Master, I'd still be using a Psion3!
- A sensible about of RAM so you don't have to worry about running more than one
program, nor frequently do resets.
I could live with the keyboard as it is. But if they fixed the above two
points, I'd buy one in a shot :-)
---
Chris Handley
cangiante
10-22-2003, 04:37 AM
Ciao Chris,
Thanks for your interesting points.
as long as my curiosity does not bother you, which kind of professional usage would you buy a Netbook Pro Symbian for?
software development / programming?
other?
Could you please specify?
MartinMaxwell
10-23-2003, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by BradC
But you are misconstruing a very simple point: the PDA is dead if it doesn't take advantage of integrating fully its software over a cellular network.
No, the netBook is not a PDA by any widely accepted definition of the term 'PDA'. It does have some PDA features, but that does not make it a PDA, just as a food processor has drink mixer features and a SUV share some features with a roadster.
The netBook has good expansion capabilities including WiFi. The netBook Pro evenmoreso; in fact excellent. The netBook Pro - in the proposed Symbian OS 7.0 configuration - is also a Communicator with GPRS/Bluetooth/WiFi at the same time.
Hence, there is no basis whatsoever in assuming that the netBook is dead just because the PDA is dead.
eriksandblom
10-23-2003, 09:14 AM
Chris,
Several times you've mentioned that a touchscreen is make-or-break for your purposes. How come?
I've always thought a touch screen is a little gimmicky, but looking at the size of Psions, there isn't any room for a touchpad or a trackball, so the only alternative to a touchscreen is one of those IBM ThinkPad joystick-keyboard-pushy-arounder-things, or Nokias weird thingymabob.
In short the only alternative to the touchscreen is the keyboard joystick and I prefer a touchscreen, but only because I dislike the keyboard joystick.
Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
BradC
10-23-2003, 01:20 PM
I think the touch screen will remain a viable cursor pointing method. Most notebook PDAs like the Netbook, NEC 880 and others have a touch screen as a mouse or touchpad is really impractical. I think touch screens are dying out on smaller PDAs as graphiti is no longer being used much, and most handset manufacturers feel it is more convenient to use a joystick button rather that pull out a stylus. I personally hope that the Nokia 9290 goes both directions in becoming a larger notebook PDA like the Netbook and becoming a smaller Treo/Tungsten type model that inserts into folding keyboards.
wanman
10-24-2003, 04:09 AM
Definitely. I so wish my laptop had a touch screen. Always using my pen on it, thinking its my 7Book...DOH
cshandley
10-24-2003, 05:40 AM
Hi Erik,
Originally posted by eriksandblom
Several times you've mentioned that a touchscreen is make-or-break for your
purposes. How come?
I like to navigate 'around' the screen very quickly, but also precisely, and
I find both laptop favourites (touchpad & keyboard-joystick) to be incredibly
horrible in one or both respects. Basically, I find both methods to be bad
compromises.
On a Netbook or larger device, I would be quite happy with a trackerball (indeed
I use one at home instead of a mouse), but I have never seen one built-in to a
laptop, and it probably wouldn't fit on a Netbook.
This leaves either keyboard-only control, or a touch-screen. Personally I don't
wish to memorise the telephone-book sized number of shortcuts needed to avoid a
mouse in multiple different applications. And navigating "step by step" (e.g.
open menu, then repeatedly tap arrow key to reach correct place) is far too slow
for me.
And in the end, I think the touch-screen is WONDERFULLY intutitive. If you've
ever used a pencil or pen (doh!) then you should find it easy :-)
When I got my first modern Psion (a Psion5), I found the touch-screen a
revelation in interactivity, and thus when I first tried using laptops later on,
I found the whole laptop experience to be horrible - just because of their crap
input method. Tablet PCs & the like have finally changed that, it's just a pity
the Windows OS wasn't really designed with styluses in mind (whereas EPOC was).
Regards,
Chris Handley
donkeyontheedge
10-24-2003, 07:30 AM
Sort of related to this discussion, has anyone seen the news of the new "Hildon Project" Series 90 Communicator from Nokia - featuring a keyboard, touch screen and stylus?
Link to The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/33568.html)
John
cshandley
10-25-2003, 04:33 AM
John,
Sort of related to this discussion, has anyone seen the news of the new
"Hildon Project" Series 90 Communicator from Nokia - featuring a keyboard, touch
screen and stylus?
Hey cool, the Series 90 sounds like exactly the sort of 5mx-like PDA we've been
waiting for, even having some Psion heritage:
"Hildon has morphed much since it began life at Psion as a user interface
project. Like the defunct Series 5 and Revo PDAs, the new Communicator will
feature pen and keyboard input for the first time in the series"
Ed_Ca22
11-29-2003, 10:24 AM
I think it is important to note (as several people have already said) that the netBook is not a PDA. It is much larger than a PDA and is more of a sub notebook for people who want to get work done and keep themselves organised (mostly corporate users). Symbian would be ideal for this purpose. Also, the netBook Pro can quite easily be connected to a GSM network, GPRS, Wireless LAN or bluetooth, so it is a 'connected' product. Whether you will be able to make phone calls on it is a different matter, but largely unimportant, because it's not made for that - would you make phone calls on a laptop? It isnt like you can hold it to your ear!
****Rant over****
Anyway, the NetBook Pro looks really nice, and if I had enough money and I could get it with Symbian built in I would. The new nokia referred to looks great too.
Ed.
daniel_harker
12-01-2003, 07:31 PM
Has any one thought of a Symbian emulator for Win CE.net being added to the
nB Pro?
Emulators for windows have been available for a long time and can’t be all that difficult to adapt for Win CE. Perhaps Symbian would be interested? It would help them have an angle in the (unfairly) growing Win CE market.
daniel_harker
12-01-2003, 07:41 PM
Cycling back throught this thread, I saw something about lugging around a phone and a PDA. Well this looks like a godd cross between a phone and the nB Pro to me, with a nicer price!:
http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=107767
Although it is a little bulky for a phone. But its a complete comms package.:
Built-in wireless communication module (GPRS) - always on; Also features PDA functions like Address Book, Document Processing/Viewing, Dictionary, Games, VGA Output, External Projector Connection, USB Interface, Data Synchronisation with a computer
Mobile Phone functions: Voice, SMS, MMS
Internet applications via wireless networking or LAN: Internet Explorer browsing, email, file downloads, online games
Network Client applications: support for the latest RDP and ICA client protocols, LAN/WLAN
Operation System: Windows CE.NET English Version; Micro-Processor: Intel Strong ARM 1110, 206MHz; Memory: 32MB Flash ROM, 128MB SDRAM
Display: 7" TFT color screen 16 bits£¬ resolution 800x480; Keyboard: 77 key STD keyboard; Mouse: At two sides of the screen, touch-controlled; Wireless Communication: GPRS
I/O: Expansion Slot: Compact Flash Type II; Microphone: In-built microphone; Speaker: Out-built stereo speaker; Earphone; Video Output: VGA; Communication terminal: USB1.1; Network interface: RJ45
Power Supply: Rechargeable li-battery, continuously operating, 3600mAH; 100-240VAC Input, 12V/2A Output power supply adapter;
Outline Dimensions: length x width x height = 215 mm x 125 mm x 28 mm
MartinMaxwell
12-02-2003, 05:00 AM
Although it is a little bulky for a phone. But its a complete comms package.:
Not really, unless you think VOIP is telephony. WinCE.NET treats the GPRS/GSM card more or less as if it is a modem. There is no telephony application like in a Nokia 9210 or a P800. This makes using it as a phone near impossible. Try using an iPaq as a phone and you see what I mean. Same here. Furthermore, there is no telephone-application integration. Whenever you want to make a call from your address book, you have to copy and paste the number manually into the dialling application.
However, as a NETBOOK PRO WinCE competitor it is kinda compelling despite using the same CPU as the netBook Classic.
cheers
Martin
Beakynet
12-03-2003, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by MartinMaxwell
However, as a NETBOOK PRO WinCE competitor it is kinda compelling despite using the same CPU as the netBook Classic.
cheers
Martin
Also, there is an Wondows XP variant running on a 800Mhz processor - the website pictures show the same machine indicating the two varients look the same!
E}|{
12-03-2003, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by Beakynet
Also, there is an Wondows XP variant running on a 800Mhz processor - the website pictures show the same machine indicating the two varients look the same!
could you please point to the appropriate picture(s)?
Global
12-03-2003, 09:35 AM
Picture of the Windows version here:
http://www.e683.com/en/proser/enhight.htm
Note, however, that it uses CDMA and not GMS. Which does not necessarily mean, of course, that there is not a GMS version in development.
Global
wanman
12-03-2003, 09:41 AM
Please also note that this runs XP or 2000 and will therefore not be instant on. All it is is a very small laptop, with the same battery and boot up time problems. This machine does not have a pcmcia slot either, only a CF Card slot.
Si
PlutoPants
12-03-2003, 11:39 AM
Going back to Daniel's post which suggested the link to http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=107767
The thing that might swing it for me is not the telephone, but the external VGA link to a projector- something only the defunct Geofox ever promised.
The other thing to note is the price. It's the price of a cheap computer (£600 inc), nowhere near a grand.
As it stands, the Book Digital Co. SmartBook G/C138 Notebook looks like a far more realistic purchase for Psion devotees instead of the Netbook Pro.
This certainly is a candidate for a head2head comparison with the Netbook Pro - and let's face it - you could equip 5 employees with one of these for £2.5k and that would only cover 3 Netbook Pros.
Ed_Ca22
12-07-2003, 09:50 AM
I agree. I am considering buying one of these now, but would have to look into linux compatibility first. Although, if netbook (not pro) linux gets going ill just use that.
Mobilix
12-08-2003, 06:31 AM
Hi Ed!
You can have a look at the first part of a test with some comparison images (to netbook an Series 5mx) of the Digital Book / dbook1 (http://www.psionwelt.de) on PsionWelt!
Ciao
Mobilix
daniel_harker
12-16-2003, 05:25 PM
I've used BabelFish to provide a rough translation of the report:
Go Here (http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=de_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.psionwelt.de%2Fbesprech%2Fdbo ok1.htm)
The first thing I noticed was the picture of the S7, S5 and SmartBook together. The thing that put me off was that Expansys' picture made it look square and bulky.
But forgive me for sounding stupid but, isn't that thing running Win 98? Look at the OS that can't be WinCE.net!
No Right hand shift key? Flaming Nora!
No IrDA.
Is this the same device as on expansys?
Mobilix
12-17-2003, 02:51 AM
Thanks for the translation link.
It is Windows CE.NET 4.2, but there is an outside identical version with Crusoe CPU and XP...
There are some more annoying issues:
The cursorpad is nonsense, if you have a touch screen. No redundancy needed here.
Only one expansion slot (PCMCIA). No CF nor SDIO.
Compared to netBook pro cheaper looking case.
Only StrongARM 200 MHz, no XScale 400 MHz on board.
Reset button besides the display remembers you daily on which software platform you are :-)
No telefony (e.g. with headset), GPRS only for data (modem) purposes.
Ciao
Mobilix
daniel_harker
12-17-2003, 07:07 AM
Hang about,
I thought it was the SA-1100.
Is this site talking about the other device with "Crusoe" and XP?
daniel_harker
12-17-2003, 09:40 AM
Just seen this. Looks interesting. Anyone know anything about it?
http://www.qxlmaxbid.com/maxbid/AuctionDescription.php?AuctionId=30
PlutoPants
12-17-2003, 11:07 AM
Daniel,
Hmm..this might be considered to be going off-topic a little, but we could perhaps argue that we are discussing functions that are popping up in rival devices to the netbookPRO.
Described as a 'Handheld entertainment center and Digital Camera/camcorder', this is one of a new generation of larger-memory solid state players - possibly rushed out for Christmas over here.
Where the Apple iPod and the like cater for audio, then this and other devices like the MUSTEK DV 4000 featuring on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2972637033&category=30012
are starting to store and play video. It might seem cheap but look at the spec.
Some digital cameras (like my Canon IXUS v2) do this quite well, although the video resolution is obviously limited by the memory size.
Sony Clies have come with cameras for a while and software-driven video recording is developing well. Other PDAs have been able to add cameras with CF interfaces.
As these devices (mainly seemingly being marketed for entertainment purposes and therefore built to a budget) become more widespread, we might see a move away from PDAs and even computers handling audio & video.
Strangely, Apple's iPod now contains a Contacts function and it is expected that video will follow in the next generation of large-capacity machines. The synching of audio & video data is aided by a fast connection (USB2/ Firewire) with a desktop machine.
Perhaps rather than PDAs becoming more audio/video orientated, then other devices such as the Archos jukebox will contain traditional PDA features - and possibly slots for SIM cards, different memory cards etc.
Does anyone know if bluetooth might one day link a camera and it's processing/ storage device? If so, could we perhaps realistically expect a netbookPRO to manage simple MPEG/AVI editing/ subtitling or even conversion/ preparation for transfer? The size of screen would be a boon alongside instant-on and compatability with Win Media Player.
daniel_harker
12-17-2003, 11:49 AM
I only skimmed it.
The idea of have 5 different devices when 1 could do fine is not a very good one. I use that jornarda to listen to music from a CF disk (BTW, music on my CF disc keeps screwing up, in the middle of play, the song will end early and then it will "crash" on the next song. Is this probably a dodgy CF Disk?). Although the N-gage and other mobiles support MP3 is a good idea.
At £600, Audio and Video only is pointless. Remember I got that trial version of Server 2003? Well used via GPRS you could use the media streamer to access video from a nB and a mobile. That mobile could have a cam and MP3 player built in. 2 Devices and your sorted.
vitualis
12-20-2003, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by MartinMaxwell
[B]Not really, unless you think VOIP is telephony. WinCE.NET treats the GPRS/GSM card more or less as if it is a modem.
There is no telephony application like in a Nokia 9210 or a P800. This makes using it as a phone near impossible. Try using an iPaq as a phone and you see what I mean. Same here. Furthermore, there is no telephone-application integration. Whenever you want to make a call from your address book, you have to copy and paste the number manually into the dialling application.
I think that you are making a generalisation here without looking at the device at its merits. From the reviews/specs I have seen, you can use this device AS a GSM mobile phone once you plugin the headset.
You can IN ADDITION, use it as a GSM/GPRS modem.
This device is also the OEM to the Coxion Webbook.
Furthermore, MS "Smartphones" run WinCE.NET as well -- and they run as standard mobiles.
Regards.
stolkjo
12-27-2003, 03:53 PM
For the price being charged for the netBook Pro I am tempted to get one of these and stick Linux on it.
http://www.dynamism.com/index.shtml
As a individual I have invested a bit of money and time in Psion, e.g. by buying every model since the 3 with 256 Kb. Still have a 5 MX, 5 MX Pro and two netBooks. So I felt rather annoyed when PT announced they are dumping their private users.
Now this gets a whole different spin. As a business owner (www.ec-guild.org, yes it is netBook friendly) I have developed and had developed all my tools in a format so it would run on a netBook. Therefore it is the machine of choice and every Counsellor, including myself, working with clients is a showcase for the netBook.
So I contact PT to see if it was possible to get a demo to get a better understanding of the machine. Also to do an inventory in the sense of what this would mean for my tools.
I know enough has been said about the Marketing “capabilities” of PT but here is something to top it. The Sales Manager sends me a VAR agreement! No demo possible, only after I send in the signed VAR agreement he is willing to try and locate a machine for testing!!!!!!! And all this time I was thinking that PT was going to focus on business users?!?!?!?!?!? I am lost here.
So how about this alternative, everybody serious about the Symbian OS, let’s talk to Symbian to come up with a list of possible devices to run Symbian on and go for that and let PT sink. Otherwise here is a serious candidate for a Linux device. By the looks of it it might even be my current netBook with Linux, see
Sorry about that, VAR stands for Value Added Reseller. With this paper they want everything from me and my company, history financials etc.etc. This none of their business to begin with and on top of that I don't want to start another business, I have one and that is enough, thank you very much. As you can see from my site (www.ec-guild.org) I have nothing to do with selling any sort of hardware and neither do I want too.
John
netBookBabe
12-27-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by stolkjo
For the price being charged for the netBook Pro I am tempted to get one of these and stick Linux on it.
http://www.dynamism.com/index.shtml John
The link you posted leads to the index page for dynamism.com - I'm not clear which device you are referring to specifically.
Julie
stolkjo
12-28-2003, 06:04 PM
Thanks for your reply. Any of the ones featured on the first page there. They all seem to be of netBook size or smaller. I use to carry around a Toshiba Libretto before I had my netBook. That is running Linux now, but getting a little old (120 Mhz overclocked to 166Mhz and 6,4 Gb harddrive).
John
stolkjo
12-31-2003, 10:09 AM
Is it just me or are there to many alternatives to the netBook Pro , with CE that is, that are way cheaper. Just go through this List and add this one:
The Sigmarion III is Japan’s answer to the latest trend in PDA phones. The Sigmarion III features a PXA255 400MHz ARM processor with 64MB of RAM and 32MB of ROM. The Sigmarion III has a 5 inch color TFT LCD Touch screen display with a 800x480 dot pitch. For only US$ 599! How does PT think they can charge 3 times that and have less features?
http://www.dynamism.com/sig3/main.shtml
John
vitualis
12-31-2003, 11:05 PM
I agree with you somewhat stolkjo.
However, there is still no machine with the same specs in totality compared to the NB Pro. The Sigmarion III is great... but it's battery life is inferior and it doesn't have a touch-typable KB. Also, it's Japanese based OS causes some difficulty with installation of programs.
Another worth contender is the Zupera Smartbook 7c. Again, MUCH cheaper than the NB Pro. Again though, it doesn't have a touch typable KB, runs on an older processor and its battery life is not as good.
The NB Pro is very much overpriced, IMO, but it is also probably the best of the subnotebook sized Handheld PCs.
Regards.
E}|{
01-01-2004, 03:08 PM
The NB Pro is very much overpriced, IMO, but it is also probably the best of the subnotebook sized Handheld PCs.
well, i don't really think that NB Pro is in any way the best... personally i tend to think that while dealing with some aspects of it (OS, dimensions, etc) it could be even a kind of bad choice comparing to the e.g. mentioned above gadgets from the dynamism.com. but -- let's say the truth -- nB (and now NB Pro)... they have charm, and that really means quite a lot, since when the thing has a certain allure, we usually tend not to see it's drawbacks :).
we can not decline our love to Psion (and to nB / NB especially), and we have the only choice -- buy such an overpriced kind of technical fetish or be sorry for the change we'll make -- from Psion to PC / Pocket PC / whatever. even if the platform we'll change to would be perfect :).
happy new year :).
vitualis
01-01-2004, 08:02 PM
Sorry but I disagree.
I have never used a Psion device. Never liked them. I'm firmly a Windows CE HPC man.
From my point of view, the NB Pro is the best device in the "Handheld PC" category ever.
Best processor, best RAM, best keyboard, most expandable, runs the newest version of Windows CE.Net, best audio capabilities, best screen (full SVGA TFT), etc., I can go on.
The thing that keeps it back is the price.
The "next" best would be the NEC MobilePro 900. If the this device came in Windows CE.Net and had a TFT screen instead of the older passive screen, I would buy it instead in a flash.
Regards.
netBookBabe
01-01-2004, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by vitualis
The "next" best would be the NEC MobilePro 900. If the this device came in Windows CE.Net and had a TFT screen instead of the older passive screen, I would buy it instead in a flash.
Can't help thinking that the term "you get what you pay for" comes into play here. ;)
Julie
vitualis
01-02-2004, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by netBookBabe
Can't help thinking that the term "you get what you pay for" comes into play here. ;)
Julie
:D
True. However, the NB Pro if you compare to the similar class of Windows CE machines I would estimate to be easily more than double what it is worth.
Regards.
MartinMaxwell
09-02-2004, 07:22 AM
More than a year has passed since we commenced the netBook Pro Symbian BizCase activities. During this year, a number of significant events have passed by and changed the original assumptions we set out with. In early January 2004, we ceased working on new versions of the netBook Pro Symbian BizCase since new events came faster than we could cope with.
With the various extracts from the BizCase in circulation, strengthened by the massive support from the netBook Pro Symbian petition, we still hope we had some impact, and that we made people within Nokia, Sony Ericsson etc discover (or perhaps 're-discover') a much overlooked growth market.
I have decided to make the final draft version of the netBook Pro Symbian BizCase available for download at the DP website. It is still incomplete, largely unreviewed, and with several errors, but I believe some central ideas in this document are still very relevant and powerful.
So here it is. Hope it can be at least interesting reading and/or of use for someone.
www.dp.com.my
Look after the netBook petition news item.
daniel_harker
09-02-2004, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by vitualis
I think that you are making a generalisation here without looking at the device at its merits. From the reviews/specs I have seen, you can use this device AS a GSM mobile phone once you plugin the headset.
You can IN ADDITION, use it as a GSM/GPRS modem.
This device is also the OEM to the Coxion Webbook.
Furthermore, MS "Smartphones" run WinCE.NET as well -- and they run as standard mobiles.
Regards.
It is also important to note that there is a PPC Phone edition available, like what the XDA uses, and provides actual mobile phone and text message software.
Slightly of track here, but does anyone know of a GPRS providor that will allow me to connect from a ThreePay videophone?
Three are a pain in the butt!
PDA Street
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