Question regarding revo plus alarm + batteries

[krnlgmp]

I've had my revo plus for about a year, and it's always had minor battery problems as I didn't charge it properly the first time.
Now, however, I've drained the battery, hard-resetted, etc. and all is well.

But, if I try to test an alarm that is loud (like the phone sounds), the revo switches off. It did this with the batteries at around 40%, but I'm not sure if it would also happen at higher charges. Quieter alarms work fine.

Anyway, when I switch back on, there is a message that the batteries are too low to play the alarm.

I was just wondering if the revo should be switching off like this; shouldn't it just display the message, or is this normal?

In either case, it's much better than before, when it turned off just from the sound of cascade...

[naileshgandhi]

I have exactly the same problem with my REVO.what is the solution?can anyone tell us?

how is revo plus compared to revo?are batteries changable by us?is it simple to just place new batteries or very difficult like REVO?

if I want to buy new psion product which one is better in respect of batteries,no problems whatsoever,user friendly?

NKG

[brianh]

hello,

i know that the mako/revo has gotten a bad rap in regards to its battery, but a simple charging routine should help to eliminate it.

this is due to the battery gauge not being accurately matched to the batteries actual charge. rechargeable batteries, esp. NiMH, need to be charged fully.

use the device until the charge level gets down to ~10%.
plug the mains directly into the back of the unit.
switch the unit on and navigate to today view.
both lights should come on, indicating fast charge until ~85-95%. you can verify this by looking at the mA charge level (above 400mA).
when the unit starts to trickle, allow it do so past the the time it takes to reach 100%. trickle charging takes a while and the battery will not reach full capacity until it has been "topped" off with a trickle charge. the unit will be done charging approximately 6-6 1/2 hours after you first start charging. the animated battery icon will stop.

charge like this EACH time. do it overnight if you don't want to hassle with alloting the time in the evening.

this will straighten out the charge and should work properly.:D

[naileshgandhi]

Hi Brianh,

Many thanks.But I have done like this for many times.Only difference is that I donot ON it till 6-8 hrs have passed and then check the battery current which should come to 7ma charging and animation stops.But then there is no guarantee that it will remain ok.Sometimes so much is written in theer and it gets blank.And shiver goes on as I cannot get lost data.ASo can u suggest with this background now?How is revo plus to bye?

NKG

[krnlgmp]

I've let the battery run down to nothing, done a hard reset and left it charging for around 8 hours. This seemed to get rid of my previous battery problems, but the unit still switches off when the very loud alarms are played.

But then, if the battery is at around 20%, should there normally be enough power for the alarms, and should the unit switch off _before_ displaying the 'batteries too low' message?
If the battery is still not right, would I need to do another hard reset?
I've tried the letting the batteries drain and hard resetting thing a number of times, and this last time has worked best, but still the sound problem remains.

Thanks! :)

[brianh]

Hello,

You might want to try charging with the mako/revo switched on. This way you can monitor the progress of the charging - just be sure not to be tempted to stop charging when the battery meter hits 100%. Let the animation stop.

As far as it still frequently going blank, do you lose all of your data when that happens?

Technically speaking, when the mako/revo reaches 0% and goes into a dormant state, the memory should remain intact for approximately 5-7 days. The reason for this is because the mako switches to reserves at what is actually 30% capacity. This is done as a means of preserving data if you are not able to immediately charge it.

I suggest charging in this method each time to prevent switch off and alarm switch off. My cell phone uses a NiMH battery, and if I don't allow it to go down to a low charge before recharging it, the battery reads inaccurately and cuts out. This happens also if I charge it for short times with a car charger.

Continuing the full charge after allowing the battery to go low should straighten it out. Try to avoid hard resets if possible as it can effect the battery read.

Hope this helps. Please keep me posted on all progress. Don't give up on the mako/revo because it is a great machine that has gotten a bad rep.

Also, the revo plus/mako is great - twice the memory and some cool extra web apps. Other than that, battery discharge is twice per day in dormant state - 6% per day verson 3% per day of straight revo. This is due to twice the memory being kept refreshed.

[naileshgandhi]

Dear Brianh,

Many many thanks and sure I love REVO but cannot see it blank all the time really when iI need it.

If I keep it ON durimng charging,no problem will occure?

Usually when it blanks off data remains.But not for sure,many atimes it is impossible to get back and then hard reset comes in.

Many a time it so happenes that it resets during working all of a sudden and label of REVO come son screen with all data gone.

So these are the problems,still I will keep trying and keep you informed.
Thansk
NKG

[krnlgmp]

Well, if you get random hard-resets, it would seem that there is either a problem with the battery or a loose connection somewhere.

My revo has reset itself about twice since i've got it, maybe only once, and then it was only a soft-reset, so no data was lost.

But if you have tried hard resetting and recharging, etc. and the resets still occur, there is probably a faulty connection somewhere or something. Or at least that's my opinion.

As for my revo, hard-resetting and recharging solved most of the battery problems, except for this alarm thing.

Oh, and I just tried the 'low phone' alarm with the batteries at 80%, and it still switched off. Now that really can't be normal, can it?

Any suggestions? As I say, I've already tried hard-resetting etc. and charging with it turned on, but this still happens.
Is the battery just worn out and in need of replacement? I've had the revo for around a year, but I've been using it pretty heavily...

But yes, it is a great machine (except for the batteries); it's fast, efficient and easy to use. Much more powerful than my Palm! :)

[naileshgandhi]

Thanks for reply.

I was considering buying Palm with all word and excell facilities rather than REVO continuing.What do u say?

NKG

[krnlgmp]

I think the main problem with a Palm would be the lack of keyboard; if you wanted to edit word and excel files often, you would really need to buy an add-on keyboard.

The Palms are easy to use, though.

Really the best thing I can think of for editing documents and things would be Psion's Series 5mx. That wouldn't have the revo's battery problems (but the batteries are not rechargable), and has a decent keyboard. It's also pretty cheap now, but Psion will probably drop support for it in a year or two.

I know someone who used a palm with an add-on keyboard for wordprocessing, and they were happy with it, but personally I prefer something with it's own keyboard, like the revo and the 5mx.

Of course, you could use a PocketPC device, but they can be pretty expensive, and a palm would do just as well. Plus, if you didn't need a colour screen, you would be hard pushed to find a greyscale PocketPC device.

So, a palm would be a good choice, but for serious document editing, you really need something with a keyboard, or at least a keyboard for a palm.

If you do get your revo's battery problems fixed, then that would probably be a good choice! I use mine very often for wordprocessing, etc.!

[naileshgandhi]

Dear krnlgmp,

So nice of you for making things clear in my mind.
1.I agree nothing like keyboard device like REVO.I love it but when it becomes blank my love becomes hate.

2.If I go for Palm , I have IIIXe.Can I take addon keyboard and have some software loaded for word,excell,powerpoint etc?

3.Do you have any idea which Palm will be matching my requirement with color/BW screen with minimum price?

4.There is an offer to buy REVO Plus for 150 $ if I send my REVO to company itself?How is this offer?Can we rely on revo plus or same problem may occure then may be old revo is good to continue?

NKG

[krnlgmp]

Well, there is a keyboard model that works with the IIIxe, but im not sure how easy it would be to get hold of now. If you can get one from somewhere, there is certainly software available for purchase that can read/edit word documents. I'm not so sure about powerpoint though.

Palm handhelds running OS 3.5 or above (any of the current ones, I think) can run the 'documents to go' software from Dataviz (http://www.dataviz.com), which will let you edit word and excel documents, and view (not edit) powerpoint presentations.

So, the m105 or the new Zire are the cheapest current Palms (I have an m105), but I'm not sure if you can get a keyboard for the Zire.

Another thing, Im not sure if the m105 can run 'documents to go'. On the dataviz website, it states that it will work on any handheld running OS 3.5 or above, which includes the m105, but on Palm's website they had an advert that stated that it worked on the m125 or above (I think, it could have been the m130).
The m130 is quite a bit more expensive than the m105, but it has a colour screen.
So, I would suggest the m105 if it can indeed run 'documents to go', but the
m125 or the m130 if it can't. The m125 is basically the same as the m130, it just has a B&W screen.


Now, on to the $150 Revo Plus. That doesn't seem like too bad a deal; I got mine for much more than that, but then that was a year ago.
My Revo Plus as had no problems with turning off during normal use, only when you play loud alarms. I have heard of a problem that some revos had where some wires to the battery could get worn or something, so that the revo would switch off occasionally. But that's fixed in the Revo Plus.

If you do get a Revo Plus, MAKE SURE YOU CHARGE IT PROPERLY THE FIRST TIME!!!!!!! :)
If, like I did, you think "oh, it will be alright" and disconnect it from the adaptor before 6 hours or whatever the instructions say, you could spend ages (like I did) trying to get the batteries right again.

The revo plus is a great machine, and it's really useful having 16mb of RAM.
You could send your revo in for repair, but it may be quite costly. Not as costly as getting a new revo or a palm, though!


I hope you succeed in finding the right handheld! :)

[naileshgandhi]

Imust thank you for an instant and detailed reply.
revo repaire is $130 and new is $150.

so i think i will decide as per advise and keep you informed
thanks

NKG

[krnlgmp]

Hey, no problem!
Glad to help :)

[brianh]

There were a few of the original Revos (8mb) that had loose battery connections between the two of them. This could be the reason for random hard resets.

Occasionally, the mako/revo will soft reset itself, but that is only because of a "crossed" command. It is the epoc systems method of sorting out what would cause a windows device to freeze.

The Oregon Scientific Osaris can be purchased at: www.weatherradiostore.com
for $49.95.

This is a great deal. The device has 8mb ram and a compact flash card slot. I already have one that I purchased three (3) years ago and recently ordered a new one.

The Zaurus is also a good alternative to Psion that has a keyboard.

There is a means to change the Revo/Mako battery:
www.portal-pda.com

Please keep me posted of your progress. Hang in there with the Mako/Revo. It is a wonderful device and needs to be allowed to be charged well. Again, try to avoid hard resets.

I wish you luck.

[naileshgandhi]

is this osaris compatible with MS word and excell?does it have same functions as revo.is it user freindly.are battreies rechangeable?

where can i look for Zaurus?

i think Osaris seems to be good alternative.has it given any problem till now?

NKG

[naileshgandhi]

how much extra we have to spend for PC compatible hotsit or base unit and on power supply or accessories.I think i have seen it on web and appears to solve my problem so i am asking details.
how much is for flash cards?

NKG

[naileshgandhi]

why price of OSARIS8mb is $49/? when it appears to be just like revo?

NKG

[brianh]

Hello all,

Below is some stats for the Osaris:

1. Oregon Scientific made them starting in 1999. However, due to the US' lack of interest in Psion machines (I have no idea why and believe that everyone is missing out), the machine did not sell well and was discontinued. This is the reason for the low price of $49.95.

2. As for usability, the machine is great. It is approximately the same size as the Series 5MX, but the screen is smaller - silkscreen buttons on it are much larger than those of native Psion devices.

It has the following features:
a. 8mb ram
b. 2aa batteries + backup (I recommend using AA Lithium batteries bacause of their high capacity - I have reached 54 hours on them)
c. Compact Flash - 32 MB is approximately $25-$30
d. Epoc - ER4
e. Great built in software - all of the usual plus sketch, program, bombs and comms - email and web are on the cd as MSGSUITE - it doesn't include today view, contacts or phone
f. a great deal of software is compatible - check the readme files and info on sites for Osaris compatibility - I could verify any that you have questions of as I have tried alot of them on it
g. I ordered my as a backup/replacement because about 1 year ago (after two years of constant use, I strained the screen greatly and the touch screen no longer responds to calibration)
h. posltd works on them, so if a problem does arise, it is fixable

I hope that this answers your questions/concerns regarding the Osaris. If you have any further, please post.

Happy hunting.

[Thinkingman]

Hello:)
Thanks for the info on the Osaris, I think I am going to get me one, It is what I am looking for to compliment my Revo. It has the back light and CF:)

[clarkip]

Hi ,
I have the same problem before, What i do is changed the softer alarm sound for my alarm clock and agenda that would ensure it won't switch off when it is alarming. I also followed the simular battery changing method too.


Regards
Clark

[naileshgandhi]

Hello Brianh,


I have already ordered one osaris 8mb after reading your expert opinion.May be I will receive one in this wk.Now just tell me following.

is this osaris compatible with MS word and excell?My main use will be word and excell.

does it have contacts and agenda or we have to down load from somewhere.

does it have same functions as revo.

is it user freindly.

are battreies rechangeable?

let me know as a user all above as now once I start using I will sure be asking less questions

NKG

[brianh]

Hello,

The Osaris has the same compatibility with MS Word and Excel as the Revo. You can either convert the files on the PC via EPOC Connect (PsiWin) or directly on the Osaris via nConvert - www.neuon.com

Agenda is included on the Osaris. Contacts in its current state is not. I have found that a simply formatted Data file works rather adequately for this (as that is really all that the Contacts app found on the Revo is).

The batteries are not rechargeable. It uses 2 removeable/replaceable AA batteries (Lithium work best). For backup purposes, it uses a single 3V Lithium (CR2025).

It is basically the same machine as the Revo/Series 5MX. The advantages over the Revo are the backlight, changeable batteries and CF slot. The disadvantages compared to the Series 5MX is that the screen is not as large.

I hope that I didn't forget any of your questions. Congrats and I hope that you enjoy it. I received my new one a few days ago and it works as expected.

Hope this helps.

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by naileshgandhi
let me know as a user all above as now once I start using I will sure be asking less questions
LOL! Why do I get the feeling that once you start using it you'll be asking MORE questions? ;) :) :D

We'll be here!

Julie

[naileshgandhi]

Hello Brianh,

Many many thanks and now when I receive may be after a wk,I will use and then will inform you what I feel.You have been a great help.

NKG

[ChasenRecording]

Back to the main issue of your battery problems with the revo, there may be an issue with the ribbon cable connecting the battery compartment circuit to the main board. In my experience of servicing these machines this tends to be the number one problem if you have a revo plus/mako. The ONLY machines that have TRUE battery problems are the REGULAR REVOS. The problems with the revo plus and mako can usually be resolved using certain methods of charging. There are a couple cases of overuse of the batteries in which case they need to be replaced, but the number one issue is the ribbon cable wearing thin and loosing the ability to carry the full amperage it is required hence the switching off when there is a loud sound that uses a lot of power.

Please humor me and find the mp3 player for epoc and play the default mp3. See if it turns off because the mp3 player takes a great deal of battery power because it uses 100% of the processor and the sound circuit.

http://www.geocities.com/zavorine/epoc/mp3.htm

[krnlgmp]

I have installed the player and played the default sound.
It played for about 5 seconds and then turned off. This was at about 24% battery charge. I will try at a higher charge and see what happens, but I suspect it will work normally, as loud alarms work fine until the battery drops below around 50%, if I remember rightly.
If the problem is the ribbon cable, do you have any idea how I could fix it?

Thanks :)

[ChasenRecording]

I am working on trying to get some compatible ribbon cables

[Calbrit]

Well, I have two Mako's (Revo Plus') and they were both bought about 18 months ago though one is actually a replacement for one I had for which I couldn't cure the battery problems.

This replacement one has been as good as gold and hasn't even once reset voluntarily. The other I have was kept boxed and only recently put it into action. Having experienced battery problems before with my original Mako I have read and acted on just about every proposal and solution to overcome the battery problem. However, unexpected screen blanking has started on this machine even with the battery at 78%( a problem previously experienced also on my original unit). I am now strongly of the opinion that you either get a good or bad machine. I will prove this in the coming 2 months by discharging it down to zero then putting it in a drawer for a few weeks to ensure that the batteries are completely exhausted. I will then charge as if for the first time overnight (and maybe a bit longer for good measure). I will then start using it again and report back. Unfortunately (but fortunately for her) my daughter has my good unit and is using it for school work so I will not steal it back. Fortunately, I have my trusty 5mx to carry me through until my "bad" Mako is available again.

I feel for anyone who suffers the frustration associated with the unreliability of the Mako/Revo battery system. It's such a disappointment when apart from this they are such great machines. It's ironic that the Palm type devices plus keyboards are now more cumbersome than a Mako/Revo which still outclasses them anyway on many fronts (even with their keyboard).

[krnlgmp]

I have just bought a 5mx, so hopefully that will not have any problems.
It is a shame with the Revo; it is such a good machine. I think Psion could have made them much better by making the batteries replaceable.
Then if anyone got battery problems, they could just buy new batteries and fit them themselves, without risking breaking the machine and without paying Psion for expensive repairs.

[Calbrit]

Following my comment above, I let the Mako battery discharge overnight (with screen permanently on) and considering the screen blanked on me at 78% was amazed to see it was still working at only 8% charge left. I then moved between applications and it seemed OK. I now am of the opinion that it may well be the battery lead that is at fault (see above post regarding this issue). The puzzling thing is that this machine has hardly been used (though now out of warranty).

I look forward to finding out where I may be able to get a replacement lead and at what price. Then if anyone has a link to how do do this oneself (I'm reasonably competent) that would be a great help too.

[brianh]

If you haven't already, you might take a look at the following link:

www.portal-pda.com

On the site, there are great step-by-step instructions with pictures on how to disassemble and/or replace/service batteries. I don't remember if they specifically show the lead wires, etc. but it is worth a look.

I hope this helps.

[ChasenRecording]

By the lead I am assuming you are referring to the ribbon cable as that is the only thing that can "wear out" in a machine. I had a machine that I could only charge using the docking station because the ribbon cable had been destroyed where the plug in the back connects to the mother board. This seems to be a common problem as many people have asked me for replacements. I am currently overloaded with school work, but I will get back with any details about finding replacements as soon as I can. I beleive I can find replacement batteries also.

[franke]

Try the following link.

www.posltd.com

Regards

[jpop]

Those of you posting replies about the vital importance of the first charge on the Revo/Mako are correct. It is a pain if you don't get it right the first time. What works great for me is to have a spare Revo (they are cheap now.) The problem you are having is that you never fully deplete the batteries although the indicated charge is 0%. There is a 20 or 30% reserve for the purpose of saving data in memory. If you let your Revo charge drop to an indicated 10% every time before recharging then you will likely never have problems. But, if you do, then back up your data, get out your other Revo (I only need to do this about twice a year and usually because I recharged too early) and restore your data. Now fully charge for about 8 hours. Let the "tired" Revo sit uncharged for months until you need it again. When you need it, it will perform as new again.

Also; I always charge with the unit OFF and especially not in the "Today" view. Also; while I use the cradle for backups and restoring data, I do not plug the charger into it. I only charge directly into the Revo back hole. I tell you, this works and the Revo is a gem when used this way.

[jpop]

I forgot to mention that, using the charging method above, I always can run the Revo/Mako down to about 3 or 4% indicated battery charge while running the "crickets" alarm sound (a very high current user.) It is rock solid unless I get impatient and recharge early (ie. higher than approx. 25% or so.) Then, that seems to begin a cycle of "out of synch" battery charge indications again.

Also, if you notice problems, it is probably best to charge up your spare first, then do a data restore from the backup of your funky one. That way you can leave the unit off for the entire charging cycle rather than turn it on (sometimes having it on during the recharge seems to cause the red hi-charge light to extinguish early and then mess up your charging cycle.)

[brianh]

Great info on the revo batts. May I ask why you suggest not charging while in Today view? It is a part of the system and allows for direct monitoring of the charge indicator.

[jpop]

It is more of a hunch than a scientific reason; I had my Makos turn off the red hi-charge light early when I used the Today view and tried (micro-manager that I am!) to monitor the charging progress. Now, I find that it seems best to just leave it off and always trust the red light.

[Stavros]

I thought I should write about my experience with the Revo, confirming jpop's comments. I have a number of Revos, most of which were charged correctly the first time, so they did not exhibit the switching off problem.
Correct charging means keeping the machine OFF during charging. Normally, the red light is on for the first two hours (at 450 mA). It then switches to green (charging at 28 mA), but one must still leave the machine OFF for another 24 hours. One then switches the Revo on. If the indication is not at 100%, switch it off and check later. During all this time the Revo is connected to the mains. The charging procedure is over, and one can disconnect it from external power, only when the charging currrent is 3, 4 or 7 mA.

I recently bought a Revo+ that had the classic ribbon problem. Thus, the first time I charged it, while keeping the machine switched off, the red light went out after only one hour. I left it on for another 24 hours, charging with the green light. When I checked the indication at the end of this period, it was just 65%. I then made the mistake of disconnecting it, draining, hard resetting and trying again. This only led to one week of pointless efforts. I then put it in the drawer for one month. Last Wednesday night I took it out and started charging again. [One must always keep the machine switched off when the red light is on. When one switches it on, after the green light has appeared, it selects an indication, but it will not be accurate unless one allows it to be filled completely (until the current is 3 or 4 mA). ] In this case then, the red light went off after just one hour, once more. But this time I left it connected to the mains and switched off for 48 hours, till Friday night. When I switched it on, it showed 85%. So I switched it off and let it connected till Saturday noon. At that point it had 100 % and 3 mA. Since then it works like a charm.
It is only the first red light that lasts for 2 hours, in my other units. After the first time the normal recharging involves waiting till it drops down to EXACTLY 1%, then switching the Revo off, connecting it to the mains, monitor the duration of the red light (it should be 1 hour) and then leave it switched off, with the green light smiling at you, for another 10 hours. At the end of this period the current is 3 mA and all is great.
Whenever I veered away from these rules, I had the usual troubles of seeing it switch off at 20% or 30%.
Note also that disconnecting it from the mains when the light is green and reconnecting (in which case the light is initially red again) does not hurt it, as long as one does not switch the Revo on.
I hope all this helps somebody.

[jpop]

Thank you Stavros. I concur completely with all that you have written about the Revo batteries. It is odd, but, if you follow these simple procedures even a malfunctioning Revo will almost always correct itself and perform properly. And if you have a spare unit so you can just jump to using it while letting the other (in case of a problem) one run down the batteries completely for a few weeks then life is easy!

[brianh]

it is OK to leave the Mako ON while charging it

i understand that the charge meter is not completely accurate until it is fully charged

the important thing that one must note while charging is that you shouldn't use it - it kind of defeats the purpose

otherwise, i agree

hope this helps someone

[krnlgmp]

Well, when I charge my revo now, it seems to charge alright (red light on until about 85%, etc.) and, in normal use, it continues to operate to about 1-2% charge.
However, I still have the sound problem. At 10-20% charge, the sound of cascade will switch off the unit.
But like I said, the charging seems to be alright.

Should I consider this a battery problem, a charging problem, or a ribbon cable problem?

Thanks :)

[jpop]

Continue your present charging methods. If it doesn't improve after a few more "deep cycles" of charging (run down to 1% or less before a long recharge) then I would say you may have a cable connection problem.

[brianh]

I wonder if it could be that the playing of sounds when the battery capacity is low (~20% and below) causes the charge level to temporarily dip below the level of satisfactory charge for the Mako? Could it therefore automatically shut itself off (although somewhat falsely)? The most sound solution to me is to not play the sound at a low volume.

Also, after it shuts off circa 20% due to a Cascade/alarm sound, are you able to turn it back on and continue to use it down to a circa 1-2% charge? If so, I would say that my above suggestions/comments are somewhat correct.

Hope this helps.

[jpop]

Mine runs all the way down to 3-4% when using the biggest energy consuming sound (crickets) when all is working properly.

[krnlgmp]

After it switches off, it is usually possible to turn it back on again.
If the charge is very low (10%), it will only turn on if you connect it to the ac adapter and then turn it on.
If I connect it to the adapter for a few seconds, it will turn on, and can then be disconnected and used as normal until 1-2%.

It's been doing this for a while, so im not sure how the cable could have been damaged. but anyway, it's certainly possible.

[peterg]

I've had this and all of the other reported Revo battery problems. I found the cure to be replacing the batteries with a pair of AAA Mimh cells purchased from my local electronic supply. Of course I had to make them up into a pack with the connector from the old set but I wouldn't think this would be too difficult for anyone capable of say model railroad building.
As an aside I found that the original (psion) set had a high resistance between the two cells, which would upset the charging control and also cause a premature shutdown when driving the alarm sounder

[jpop]

Sorry to be dumb enough to have to ask but: did I read correctly that you used "Mimh" batteries? I have heard of Nimh but not Mimh; what type are they please?

Thank you,

[peterg]

Oops! ...For Mimh please read Nimh