Netbook Pro [Archive] - PDA street forums

ktupper

11-12-2003, 04:07 PM

I should be getting my Netbook Pro in the next week or so.

Do any of you have one? So far I've only read one or two positive comments from thread members here and everyone else just laments at not having EPOC on it.

Here are links to sites that have software that is currently running on 4.1 and should certainly run on WINCE 4.2.

http://www.handango.com/home.jsp?siteId=1 (loads of WinCE 4.x software here.

http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/tips/GPS/Ambicom_GPS.htm

http://www.syware.com/prodlib/prodlib.htm

http://www.pocketkai.de/en/

http://www.conduits.com/products.asp?platform=4&listby=Category

http://www.nakka.com/soft/npop/index_eng.html

http://www.cam.com/vxftpsrv.html

http://www.ruksun.com/

http://www.phatware.com/hpcnotes/hpcnotes3pro.html

http://www.itb.net/handheld/free/index.html

http://www.olivetree.com/handheld/WinCE/WinCEBible.html

http://www.gowerpoint.com/Index.html

http://www.phm.lu/Products/HandheldPC/RegEdit/download.asp

http://tillanosoft.com/ce/stweak.html

http://www.solar.sk/batterymonitor.html

http://www.softmaker.de/tmhdemo_en.htm

I am sure there is other software available too but I'll have to do a little digging. From what I read there are some DLLs you can use to allow many of the PPC programs to work on it.

- Kevin

netBookBabe

11-12-2003, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by ktupper
I should be getting my Netbook Pro in the next week or so.Glad to hear you have decided to go for it, Kevin, after the disappointment of the price hike.Do any of you have one? So far I've only read one or two positive comments from thread members here and everyone else just laments at not having EPOC on it.I'm not aware of any regular contributor to this forum owning a Netbook Pro at this point in time - it's very early days, after all.

It should be realised that at the moment we have principally EPOC users here, many of whom are looking for an upgrade path, so it's only natural there is disappointment with the current situation. That's not say that many do not have knowledge and experience of other operating systems as well, by the way.

I must stress again that Psion Place welcomes the new machine - this area of the forum has been created for discussion of it, and I'm sure there will be plenty of contributions in due course. Look forward to hearing yours soon, Kevin! :cool:

Julie

MartinMaxwell

11-13-2003, 01:28 AM

Apart from agreeing with what Julie said, I would be very interested in getting a first hand user review of the NETBOOK PRO WinCE.NET.

I am particularly curious about how well Pocket Office runs on it, because there were earlier hints about some incompatibilities.

cheers
Martin

wanman

11-13-2003, 04:10 AM

Hi Kevin,

I look forward, with great interest, to hear about your views and opinions on the Netbook Pro when you get it. Also what software you needed to install from the off, to get it working for you. Although you have pointed out alot of Windows CE software houses, whether their products will work on the much larger Netbook Pro has yet to be seen.

Hope all goes well.

Cheers

Si

daredevil

11-14-2003, 01:24 AM

Hi All,
I do have the NETBOOK PRO and using it is a good replacement for my netBook. There are some apps that I need to totally replace some apps available on the netBook.
This unit gives me a good battery power together with a Wireless LAN card connection via my Broadband Gateway by Cable modem. I have to connect it using DHCP thru the gateway and successfully browsing the Internet for about 3hrs+ non stop and still has about 70% battery life. I am unable to connect using the netBook using DHCP no matter how I try to change the parameters on my Motorola Gateway/Cable modem/AP. I guess the netBook driver using the Wavelan PC card is not supporting the DHCP in my cable broadband access setup. However, the IE on the NETBOOK PRO does not allow me to post reply on this Psionplace forum. I cannot login to post using this NETBOOK PRO but I am able to do that with Opera on netBook.
Besides the good battery life, the instant on power is still available and I am not missing my netBook. However, there are some apps I miss and I will be able to post it in another thread.
Well, that's about it for now.

MartinMaxwell

11-14-2003, 03:02 AM

I do have the NETBOOK PRO and using it is a good replacement for my netBook.

Thanks for the info. This is the first real user comment I have heard. Some questions:

1. Have you tried it with any version of Pocket Office? If so, does it work flawlessly?

2. Does the NETBOOK PRO battery fit with a netBook Classic?

3. Have you tried any other third party apps?

4. Have you tried USB in both master and slave configuration?

5. How do you find the built in speaker? Is it good enough for teleconferencing a la Nokia 9210 or is it just a beep quality one like in the Classic?

6. Have you tested the Stellent viewer to any great length?

7. How about general user friendliness compared with, say, a netBook Classic?

cheers
Martin

harveyr

11-14-2003, 03:24 AM

Hi Martin

Just to respond to a couple of your questions myself for you....

1) I do not believe that Pocket office from MS works. 3rd party apps written for PPC should work in our experience but there are no guarantees
2) The battery is the same size but has been 'upped' in power. I will ask our engineers if there are any issues in using the NB PRO batter in netBook
3) Currently only USB master is supported
4) The Stellent file viewing software has not been included. Instead, we have opted for the file viewing software supplied by MS at this time

Hope this helps

Harvey

daredevil

11-14-2003, 03:42 AM

Hi Martin,
here is my response to the best I can.

1. I have try the MS WordPad which is limited for Word processing.
Loaded TextMaker and it supports table plus many others.
I also use PTab as MS Excel equivalent on the NETBOOK PRO and it works well. This support CSV format.
I also has the ppvedit as a powerpont editor.
2. The battery on the NETBOOK PRO fit the netBook and it has higher capacity than the latter.
3. Not extensively yet but a few are listed below.
4. I have tried a USB mouse and it works. I haven't got hold of USB camera yet.
5. The sound quality is okay, better than the beep type. I play mp3 files and using headphone from my SonyEricsson P800 and it sounds great.
6. The Viewer is great especially the powerpoint I copied from my PC. The presentation mode is great to do presentation on the go.
7. If you use a PC with MS O/S on it, there won't be much problem. But for users who are familiar with the netBook UI, need some time to adjust. I miss the Zoom in/out features and Data available on the netBook. To get those icons similar to launch any program, you might need to create shortcuts on the desktop. Otherwise, will have to use Start/Programs from the lower left of the screen.

Here is the list of apps I loaded on the NETBOOK PRO.

AGCEClientEnterprice.exe--------------Avantgo
ptab.hpc_arm.cab----------------------Ptab spreadsheet
SpreadCE.exe--------------------------Spreadsheet
QVP Standalone demo-------------------QVP File viewer
Stand_Fonts_packs-1639.zip------------Additional fonts package
Fonts_Language_packs-1640.zip---------Language fonts package
vxHpc.hpcPro_arm.cab------------------vxHpc hyperterminal program
IrModem.Psion.Cab---------------------Infared modem driver
Plus.exe------------------------------HPC Pro utitlities(paint,game,...)
msasyn3.7.exe-------------------------Microsoft Activesyn
h2konscheddemo-905.exe----------------pocket on schedule(outlook)
ppvedit.sarm.cab----------------------pocket powerpoint editor(must installed sq_arm_sa1100.cab first)
regedit.Jup_arm.cab-------------------PHM registry editor
devonescreensnap4setup.exe------------screen capture
TextMaker-----------------------------Word processor

MartinMaxwell

11-14-2003, 03:58 AM

Harvey,

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

1. I do not believe that Pocket office from MS works. 3rd party apps written for PPC should work in our experience but there are no guarantees

My question was a bit leading, I actually suspected exactly what you say. Thanks for the - almost - confirmation. Of course there might be compatible Pocket Office versions in the future.

2) The battery is the same size but has been 'upped' in power. I will ask our engineers if there are any issues in using the NB PRO battery in netBook

Thanks a lot. If it works, PT might make a fortune on batteries...just joking.

3) Currently only USB master is supported

OK that's fine. Early specs talked about slave as well. Thanks for clarification.

4) The Stellent file viewing software has not been included. Instead, we have opted for the file viewing software supplied by MS at this time

Thanks again for clarification. I know what kind of licence fees people like Stellent and Picsel are charging, so probably wise decision for now.

cheers
Martin

MartinMaxwell

11-14-2003, 04:10 AM

Thanks, daredevil, this is very useful information, I think, for many in this forum

2. The battery on the NETBOOK PRO fit the netBook and it has higher capacity than the latter.
Wow!

5. The sound quality is okay, better than the beep type. I play mp3 files and using headphone from my SonyEricsson P800 and it sounds great.
This means that the NB PRO could actually become a communicator.

Here is the list of apps I loaded on the NETBOOK PRO.
So at least Pocket Powerpoint seems to work?

cheers
Martin

ktupper

11-14-2003, 04:25 PM

I just spoke to my rep...

The latest word is that there's a 21 day lead time on the Netbook Pro so it looks like mine will come sometime around December 7th.

It'll be hard waiting but I'm sure it will be worth it.

- Kevin

daredevil

11-16-2003, 09:35 PM

Okay, I am able to post reply on this forum using the NETBOOK PRO now.
After sucessfully logging in with the correct password.
Still can't get enough of the fun in using the IE to browse the Internet with my Wireless Broadband connection.

daredevil

11-18-2003, 07:17 AM

okay, i am able to use my netBook to access Internet again via my Broadband Wireless Access after I have disable the WEP on the gateway and still using the Lucent Wireless LAN card. However, as compare to the NETBOOK PRO on viewing this webpage and posting reply, I have scroll the screen from left to right because of the display resolution. netBook only has 640x480 while NETBOOK PROhas 800x600. Thus, my browsing the webpage and posting has slow down when I use the netBook. I guess this might be one one of the advantage of the NETBOOK PRO display size that affects Internet browsing. Unless, the webpage is configured with 640x480 display then netBook still has its appeal.

netBookBabe

11-18-2003, 10:47 AM

Good to see some NetBook Pro reviews and comparisons from an experienced netBook Classic user - keep up the good work, daredevil!

:)

Julie

ceya

11-24-2003, 06:38 AM

FYI
I used to be on the Psion Forums back in the early days(old forums). I use both psion/epoc and wince. I have use both along time. psion/epoc since 89 and win ce since 97. I have had almost every psion out but stopped at Series 7.

They both have Pro/Cons about them.

The Net BookPro is the 1st english computer that I know using the new WinCe Net. The only other unit is a Japanese model computer. The WinCe Net is not a Pocket PC OS. It was made for handheld computer with keyboards .

The Pocket Powerpoint is better than the earlier version and differ from machine to machine. The Windows on Jornada 720 differs Intermec 6651. On Intermec is shows pictures alot better than J720.

I wish that I had the easy drag drop of Epoc on WinCe computers. Yes it is much easier with Epoc.

Yes, I agree that this is earlier model of WinCe Net but if no one get it we will never know what works or not.

The Internet Explorer 6.0 is the latest in handheld for Windows. It shows and works just like on the desk top PC or laptop .Ie: Win Xp

Question for the NBPro:

Does the Win Ce Net shows video on Window Media Player . I know that it plays on the Japanese computer?

I would want to get both NB and NBPro to see the difference.

S/F,
Ceya
Epoc/WinCe user..
Good to be back here..Home

donkeyontheedge

11-24-2003, 09:48 AM

A question for Daredevil or any other PRO user - does the new PRO have the same instant-on/instant-off of the classic nB or is it more of a PC style hibernate?

John

wanman

11-24-2003, 09:57 AM

I don't know for definite but I assume it is an instant on as per ER5. As the Netbook Pro runs Win CE.net. I know the Pocket PC is instant on so assume this is too.

ceya

11-24-2003, 10:22 AM

The Win Ce is instant on. As soon as the button is pressed it is on. you can leave the application open ,turn it off.

Click the button on and you are back at the same place where you turned it off. no loss of data. just do a back up before ..common sense..

S/F,
Ceya

daredevil

11-26-2003, 02:27 AM

Well,
the NETBOOK PRO instant on/off is exactly like the netBook.
You can set it in the Control Panel to let the power on/off by opening/closing the lid or switch it on/off using the keyboard.
It will bring you back to the page where you last switch off.

Davidish

11-27-2003, 02:56 PM

daredevil, how much did the NBpro cost you? where did you buy it from?

thanks,
david.

fladda

11-27-2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by ceya
The Win Ce is instant on. As soon as the button is pressed it is on. you can leave the application open ,turn it off.

This is one of the many things that Psion have always been good at. I believe that the Netbook 'classic' shuts down just about everything except the DRAM refresh circuitry whilst 'off'. On a full battery charge the Netbook classic will keep its DRAM contents for months. Indeed I normally don't bother fitting the 3V lithium battery backup cells in my Netbooks - only necessary if you are swapping batteries IMHO.

OTOH I also have a Wince Siemens Simpad and also a Pocket Loox 600. Both of these devices appear to keep a lot more of their circuitry alive whilst in the 'off' state. From memory the Loox is only rated at 100hrs standby time - I think that this is the minimum amount of time the memory contents will be held up after the battery becomes 'flat'.

So here's a question for those with Netbook Pros or Harvey.

Q. How long does the Netbook Pro keep its memory contents whilst in the 'off' mode ? Is it days, weeks or months ?

Ralph

Beakynet

11-27-2003, 06:19 PM

My experience is with the NetPad - this has a rechargeable backup battery and does not keep memory for long when the main battery is flat - I have had to recover machine on 3 occations due to complete memory loss. However, it should be noted that there are two settings in the power management screen on the netPad: Standby and Off. Standby uses much more power and the batterys drain in about 2 days (say 40 hours) of stand by. In the off mode, there seemed to be little to no battery power drop in two days.

If the power management on the netBook Pro is the same then turn the setting to "off".

By the way, on the netPad Win CE version the egg timer is displayed for about 5 seconds at start up - this is with no additional cards installed. This compares to a netBook Clasic with a 256MB CF card installed and the NB will read the card at power on and the system is busy for a few seconds, limiting or stopping response to any input .

David

daredevil

12-01-2003, 02:36 AM

Hi donkeyontheedge,
I have not purchase it yet. It was on loan from Psion to play with for a few weeks. Anyway, I will be purchase it from Psion Teklogix's distributor once it is available here in Singapore.

cpulster

12-07-2003, 03:43 AM

The PRO accu cell has 2200mAh and is very powerful in the netbook classic. Yes, it fits perfectly, charges and gives a 15h power on a not touched machine.

[commercial advertising deleted]

Christoph
(www.pulster.de)

vitualis

12-20-2003, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by ceya
The WinCe Net is not a Pocket PC OS. It was made for handheld computer with keyboards .

Actually, this isn't quite true.

Pocket PC 2003 actually runs the Windows CE.NET 4.2 OS (i.e., the same as the Netbook Pro). They have an additional application layer which forms the Pocket PC 2003 interface, but the core OS is the same.

Regards.

vitualis

12-20-2003, 06:12 AM

@ daredevil,

I'm quite interested in buying the Netbook Pro myself... but I've wondered about the following. The specs say that it comes with a Java Virtual Machine but does this work only for stand-alone JAVA apps or will it load up Java applets in IE as well?

Regards.

daredevil

12-23-2003, 08:00 AM

Hi Michael,
There is a separate JVM called Jeode EVM on the machine. This isn't link to the IE. However, the IE on the machine does support pages with Java applet and Javascripts. There is no Java plug-ins in the IE.

vitualis

12-23-2003, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by daredevil However, the IE on the machine does support pages with Java applet and Javascripts. There is no Java plug-ins in the IE.

I'm sorry, but that last statement seems somewhat contradictory...

IE supports Javascript... OK!

But does IE support JAVA applets? (which would imply a JVM either in-built in IE or a third-part JVM plug-in).

I would like to know as without JAVA support in IE, I won't be able to use internet banking.

Best regards.

ceya

12-24-2003, 11:38 PM

Quoted by Vitualis

" Actually, this isn't quite true.

Pocket PC 2003 actually runs the Windows CE.NET 4.2 OS (i.e., the same as the Netbook Pro). They have an additional application layer which forms the Pocket PC 2003 interface, but the core OS is the same."

True indeed but not the same. WinCe Pro is ratedas 3.0 as well as Window Handheld 2000 but still different . Some programs for WinCe Net will run PocketPC but still have to make some changes.

You can use the Jornada 720 to download programs on compact flash cards and they will work on WinCe Net.. I am on my friend's Japanese PDA that uses this and we see the same thing. I don't have or seen a Psion NetBook Pro so I cannot compare the two.

S/F,
Ceya

vitualis

12-25-2003, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by ceya
True indeed but not the same. WinCe Pro is ratedas 3.0 as well as Window Handheld 2000 but still different . Some programs for WinCe Net will run PocketPC but still have to make some changes.

You can use the Jornada 720 to download programs on compact flash cards and they will work on WinCe Net.. I am on my friend's Japanese PDA that uses this and we see the same thing. I don't have or seen a Psion NetBook Pro so I cannot compare the two.

Actually, Handheld PC Pro (which is also called Handheld PC version 3.0) runs Windows CE version 2.11 or 2.12. (e.g., Jornada 820, 680, MobilePro 780).

Yes, Microsoft made the version numbers damned confusing!

Handheld PC 2000 runs Windows CE version 3.0 (e.g., Jornada 720, MobilePro 790/900).

There are quite significant differences between H/PC 3.0 (aka H/PC Pro) and H/PC 2000. Importantly, software designed specifically for H/PC 2000 won't run on H/PC Pro devices.

The reverse is often not true. Assuming that the CPU type is the same, a H/PC 2000 device will run essentially all H/PC Pro software.

Similarly, a Windows CE.Net device "should" run most H/PC 2000 software (assuming CPU type of course).

As Pocket PC 2003 (or Windows Mobile 2003) actually runs on top of Windows CE.Net 4.2 (the "Pocket PC" functions are an application layer on top of the OS core), it should be theoretically possible to run most P/PC 2003 software on the Netbook Pro. However, it may involve hacking/copying over some P/PC specific files in addition to the application -- and to have to accept that the display may not be optimised to use the full screen available on the Netbook Pro.

The best software for the Netbook Pro probably still comes from the third party software for the older H/PC 2000 devices (e.g., TextMaker, MobiReader, Ansyr PDF Primer, etc.)

Best regards.

P.S. can anyone with the actual device answer my question? Does IE6 on this device correctly run JAVA applets?

cangiante

12-25-2003, 11:20 AM

In case it may be of your interest here you will find an attachment with a detailed description (including comparative tables) of the differences between Windows Pocket PC 2003, CE.NET etc etc...

http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18259&perpage=15&pagenumber=9

daredevil

12-26-2003, 04:49 AM

To Michael Tam,
I was told the current IE has no support yet. It will be implemented in the next O/S release.

ktupper

12-26-2003, 06:49 AM

Michael:

I've tested a couple of pages with Java Applets and they do not run.

If you have a specific page you would like me to test, I'd be happy to let you know.

- Kevin

vitualis

12-26-2003, 07:43 AM

Okay,

Thanks for the info!

JAVA applet support in the browser is actually quite important to me... I wonder if it is possible to coax the included third party JVM (?Jeode) to somehow do JAVA applets... On their webpage, they indicate that their software can integrate with embedded IE to provide JAVA applet support -- though I would presume that it would be up to the manufacturer to actually implement it... :-(

Best regards.

vitualis

12-27-2003, 08:21 PM

Hello,

I noticed that you can download an evaluation version of a JVM + IE plugins here: http://www.nsicom.com/products/eval1.asp

I tried it on my Jornada 820 but it didn't work... but then again, their lowest supported OS is WinCE 3.0 (J820 is WinCE 2.11).

Would someone be willing to experiment with this software to see whether they can get JAVA applets running within IE? :D

Best regards.

ktupper

12-27-2003, 10:29 PM

I'll try. Which one should I download? CrEme?

- Kevin

vitualis

12-27-2003, 10:37 PM

Yes.

You have to choose the version... I think that they have a Windows CE.Net version.

Thanks again!

Regards.

ktupper

12-27-2003, 10:40 PM

I downloaded the CrEme for Wince.Net and ran the setup. It set something up on my Netbook Pro but I'm not sure if I need to do anything else.

I wnt to this page...

http://javaboutique.internet.com/PingPong/

The page loads fine but the Java applet ping pong game that loads when I run it on my desktop with IE does not load on my Netbook Pro.

Any other suggestions?

- Kevin

vitualis

12-28-2003, 12:46 AM

There should have been something installed in the Start menu called "Install plugin" or "Register plugin" or something like that...

Did you do that step first?

I would image a soft reboot would be needed too as a number of DLL files are installed.

Regards.

ktupper

12-28-2003, 08:29 AM

Register Plug-in in the menu for crEme did the trick!

It seems to be working. I say seems because although the pong game plays on it, half of the screen is not getting filled in.

- Kevin

vitualis

12-28-2003, 10:19 AM

Excellent! Great to know!

JAVA animation is of little importance to me, as what I really need it for is for internet banking -- which comprises of mostly static windows.

Thanks again for you help!

Best regards.

daredevil

12-29-2003, 02:58 AM

Okay, I have manage to get a newer O/S on my NETBOOK PRO.
Now, I am able to view the pages at http://www.cboe.com/tradtool/optiocalculator.asp
Is this Java applet on the IE now supported?

vitualis

12-29-2003, 03:20 AM

Originally posted by fladda
This is one of the many things that Psion have always been good at. I believe that the Netbook 'classic' shuts down just about everything except the DRAM refresh circuitry whilst 'off'. On a full battery charge the Netbook classic will keep its DRAM contents for months. Indeed I normally don't bother fitting the 3V lithium battery backup cells in my Netbooks - only necessary if you are swapping batteries IMHO.

OTOH I also have a Wince Siemens Simpad and also a Pocket Loox 600. Both of these devices appear to keep a lot more of their circuitry alive whilst in the 'off' state. From memory the Loox is only rated at 100hrs standby time - I think that this is the minimum amount of time the memory contents will be held up after the battery becomes 'flat'.

...

Q. How long does the Netbook Pro keep its memory contents whilst in the 'off' mode ? Is it days, weeks or months ?

Some WinCE bashing I see... :)

Actually, WinCE devices work exactly the same way as did the Psion devices.

When you press "off", only minimal circuitry is left on -- enough to keep the volatile RAM active and to trigger alarms as needed.

The effect you were seeing/described I think would more likely than be be attributed to the battery technology involved rather than anything else.

I have an older Windows CE device (Handheld PC Pro -- Jornada 820) and I once stopped using it for several months. When I eventually got back to using it, the main battery still wasn't flat (it still had > 10% charge). Needless to say, there was no data loss on the device either. The J820 used NiMH cells in it's rechargable battery. Clearly, in the "off" state, it would keep it's memory for "months".

However, many newer devices (including the NB Pro) use Lithium-Ion cells and these have a much higher self-discharge rate. This is one of the trade-offs. I would imagine that a fully charged battery would probably be completely discharged (not from current drain from the device -- most from self-discharge) in the realm of 1 or 2 months. As to how long the memory would stay intact, it would depend on how long the two AA cells could keep the DRAM going.

I don't know too much about the Psion system, but one advantage of the Windows CE system is excellent PC integration. Activesync comes with a FULL backup system (and that means EVERYTHING that is in volatile memory) and I usually set my H/PC to do a backup after synching.

If you do manage to trash your H/PC, a simple restore will return it to exactly the same state it was at the backup.

Best regards.