A clever toy just not serious

[fkend]

I have just completed a 350 mile airborn trip with three outlandings using my iQue.

The GPS function is great and using a Gilsson antenna reception is excelent but that I'm afraid is where it ends:

I found that on internal batteries I was only able to guarrantee about 1hour of operation. Using one of the Garmin 4 x AA battery backup packs kept me going fo about 2.5 hours.
Whilst airborn I managed the nudge the connector which is the same as the cradle connector and one of the locating lugs broke, after that the plug would not stay in place. I finished my trip by turning the unit on and off to conserve power.

I'm afraid the unit is too underpowered and too delicate to rely on especially when you run into bad weather which is when you realy need it.

It's going!

[Last Mrk]

So? What's the point of your posting? Should we all do as you are or can we be happy with our iQue's? :cool:

I know I love it. Does it have limitations? Of course. But for most of them there are work arounds.

[scarypat2001]

The day I would rely on my iQUE to fly is not here yet! I think that most advertisements were targeting guys like me: the travelling businessmna who does not want to get lost in unfamiliar cities, no more, and it does the job. Hey it's primarly a Plam device, not a plane GPS...

I do agree however that 1) the battery is on the weak side when on GPS mode and 2) the differents connectors (either the special pin type or the universal connector) are not designed in a way to last (i.e. broken pin problem).

Still, I'm pretty happy with the whole thing. I just came back from a 2 week trip in Europe, with 1/2 my time spent in Paris, but with a few days spent visiting new customers in OSlo and Lisbon, and I can tell you that I was quite impressed with the GPS function, combined with a Gilsson antenna.

[coop]

The battery life on the iQue has been identified as an issue from the start.

I regularly use my Palm IIIxe for weeks without running the batteries low. On the other hand, there is no internal GPS, colour screen, only 8MB of RAM, no audio player and it runs at 16MHz, etc....

Many people have found that by turing the backlighting down they can achieve two to three hours of continuous use.

Was the failed connector on the iQue or the battery backup pack?

coop

[CaptainSpalding]

I think too many of us on this forum have fallen into the "I paid a lot for it, so I have to love it" trap.

Face it. "Robust" is not a word you could use to describe the iQue. It's like an exotic car: it runs great - when it runs.

I have a Palm m515 that for years I have shown no respect whatsoever, and it continues on without a hiccup. The iQue is another story. I live in constant fear that a reset lurks around every corner (and it does.) Installing any new piece of software requires a backup because compatibilty is such an issue. I have always kept my m515 backed up. I've never had to restore from backup. I have had to do a restore 5 times on the iQue.

Screeching.
Broken connectors.
Incompatible connectors.
Lame proprietary GPS data stream.

These are just the top of the list.

"The point" of fkend's posting is the voicing of his disappointment in the fact that he spent a lot of money for a tool, but got a toy instead. The iQue is not ready for mission critical applications. It is not, in a word, reliable.

So lets all be big boys and girls, and not lambast fkend too severely for the mere voicing of a (valid) opinion.

[fkend]

CaptainSpalding you print my feelings exactly.

To the previous post it was the connector on the battery pack which failed but whichever I still had no reserve power.

Personally I cannot understand why Garmin would produce a new PDA which does not exceed the performance of earlier and competitor units and with GPS by its nature, battery performance is crucial?
I also cannot understand why they use such flimsy connectors?

[jonasolof]

I beg to agree

The iQue is too delicate to be of use in a corporate environment and by other discerning customers so Garmin excluded that important client group with the way it was designed. It is my impression that Garmin tries to copy Nokia in making mass market devices (Geko GPS etc). 200 USD more on the price had allowed for higher quality and higher reliability. With all the posts I have made struggling to get this device to work as it seems it should, I just don't dare to think of the time I've spent reading and browsing. I would gladly have spent twice the money and only a third of the time.

I'm afraid that the next model will be even further away from the quality and functionality that corporations demand.

And then Palm or somebody else will release a device with Wifi and GPS and then we'll start all over again using hundreds of hours of time to get it to work.

Yes, I do like my iQue. But on critical missions I bring a backup m500 and a Magellan Sportrak Pro with all the cities and streets I might need. I enjoy my iQue as a geek hobby tool while it works, and try to take it with equanimity when it fails. My wife wouldn't tolerate it, not even my 17 year old son who leaves the geek stuff to dad. And I wouldn't dare to recommend it to any of my 55 years+ ex CEO investor friends for finding the way to the golf courses.

Imagine a large insurance company buying 1000 iQues, returning them all in a month after a number of hard resets, broken pins, failing antennas, broken cradle hooks etc. It ain't Lexus, so to say, not even Toyota. More like Jaguar used to be. Fancy and frail. I'd love to overhear the board room discussions, especially if any of the board members cared to pick one up.

Jonas
Geek, and tech investor

[coop]

Well CaptainSpalding, I agree. That's why I'm still using my old Palm IIIxe. It's travelled the world, gotten dropped, shocked, bumped around in my pocket, etc., and NEVER failed.

The iQue looks fantastic, but for me it still has one major problem. Reliability. It sounds like Garmin has kludged the Hard reset into a soft reset, but I'm still not buying.

It's a really cool beastie, but as long as it resets itself with static shocks, it's too scary for me to use as my primary PDA. It if wanted a PDA that was that flakey, I'd buy a PocketPC (grin).

Fkend, I was just curious re where the phycical problem was. No power is still no power.

coop

[apersson850]

From the contacts I've had with people at Garmin, it seems at least that they are working very hard to get the bugs out of the software of this product. Which is good for all of us, of course, since we can upgrade it ourselves, when new versions are available.

But the hardware is as it is, of course. There'll hardly be any way to upgrade that, lest buy a new one, either what's available now or what'll come.

Myself, I've had a Vista for more than two years. It wasn't the most reliable thing in the beginning, but now it seems to be very stable. There has been hundeds of improvements during these years. If they keep the speed up with the iQue, it will eventually become a very good and reliable unit, software-wise.

But you still have to be careful with these connectors. Maybe it would be a good idea of Garmin to start shipping it with the protective leather case they sell as an acessory? It does at least protect the connectors when carrying the unit. However, I don't think I'll ever start walking around with the iQue powered by a cord to a battery pack. It's simply not intended for that kind of use.

I use the iQue as a regular Palm, at work and elsewhere, and I use it as a car navigator, mounted in the car nav cradle. For running around in the woods, I use the Vista. But I didn't expect the iQue to be useful for anything else than I use it for, so it meets my expectations, as far as the hardware goes.

There are still issues regarding the software, but there I think they are moving in the right direction.

[N2racin88]

Originally posted by jonasolof
I'm afraid that the next model will be even further away from the quality and functionality that corporations demand.



Just about every subsequent Garmin product i.e. Streetpilot series, etrex series-60C series, Fishfinders, etc. have all been better then their predicessors. Why do you think thier next PDA will be any different? I am not sure how any of us can say that their next generation will be worse. I am sure they will learn from their first experience. Count me as one to think that it will be better.

[reinbeau]

I'm coming to the iQue from the Palm world, not from the GPS world. That being said, it's a tempermental Palm unit, with problems that Garmin has been addressing fairly consistently since I bought it, and it's a wonderful travelling companion, a great introduction to the GPS world. I don't think it's a toy, it's a PDA that needs to be handled a certain way. Yes I had hard resets, Garmin fixed it. The screech happened only twice to me, hasn't happened since Garmin issued that patch. It's got me all around Maine, New Hampshire, here in Massachusetts, it will get me around to all of the places I want to explore, while holding all of my appointments, phone numbers, shopping lists, databases, astronomy programs, games, I could go on and on and on.

I don't see Garmin downgrading their equipment, I see them entering a new market and having to learn the ropes in the PDA world. Anyone who expects anything and everything from the iQue is going to be disappointed, but then again, I think some of those folks just look for reasons to b*tch and moan. Read the specs. Read the manuals. See what it is supposed to do, and don't expect anything more from it.

I have yet to be disappointed.

[dirkus]

To the people having so many problems: Have you RMA'ed your units? I initially had a flaky unit too but the new one I received after RMA'ing the original one has been rock solid for 3 months now (and I have used it under some rather harsh conditions).

The battery life is an issue that needs to be addressed but it is not a fair comparison when you compare how long the iQue lasts to a less powerful, PDA only unit.

fkend states:
Personally I cannot understand why Garmin would produce a new PDA which does not exceed the performance of earlier and competitor units...
There are no earlier and competitor units! This is a first of it's kind. I personally think Garmin has done a good job so far and are clearly trying to address the issues. Many things will be software updatable but if they come out with new hardware to address the connector issues our only option would be to buy the new version -- that is the price we pay for being early adopters of brand new technology.

[Wallace Matsen]

wow !!!!! people who buy this gps are tough and have high expectations and i fear they have lost their perspective ...the ique is a new thing and has so many good qualities ...all of the tech people i ahve dealt with over the years can't hold a candle to the garmin crew

and ...i fear we have lost our sense of humor ...of course it has flaws ...the pda is not the major item

nice we can talk to each other here ...i need it :D

[Bobny]

If all I wanted was a PDA, I'd buy a Zire. The battery lasts forever, you can show it no mercy and it keeps right on going and the memory is enough for all conceiveable personal contacts with enough room for a few extra programs.

If all I wanted was a GPS, I'd buy one of the Garmin GPS units. They are as rugged as any electronic device can be made to be and they have more functions than any PDA mapping program for marine use.

However, I wanted both in one unit so I could have access to real time directions to contacts with a minimum of extra equipment to lug around. The iQue with the Garmin car kit performs that function better than any other combination of equipment on the market at twice price This is just fact, no emotion. That's why I'm very pleased with the iQue.

I have not seen the number of problems reported by others. I've had perhaps one instance of screeching a month but only after loading new maps. Is it an annoyance? Sure it is but it's not a problem that concerns me at that frequency. Battery life? I use it in the car with the Garmin car kit, no problem. It has plenty of battery life for looking up addresses and contacts. I just don't have a need to leave it on for long stretches of time, others may. Since I only use the car kit or cradle for recharging, I haven't experienced a problem with the charging pin. As for compatibility, I currently have 39 programs loaded (excluding the ones that came with the iQue) and they all work well, no problems, including the ones that access the internal GPS.

Each of us look for different things in electronic devices, be it PDA's, GPS, or something else. What I value, the iQue delivers better than any other device. For me, I consider the iQue an outstanding value. I recognize that others may not think so based on their own set of expectations which may differ from mine. So be it, just recognize that we can disagree without implying that those that think differently are somehow illogical.

[Last Mrk]

Originally posted by CaptainSpalding
I think too many of us on this forum have fallen into the "I paid a lot for it, so I have to love it" trap. A lot for it? Not in my case. I think the iQue is a bargain when comparing it to other routeable GPS devices that have voice command instructions.

And I get to keep all my contacts on it, all my datebook reminders, listen to music in stereo, play solitare, show friends and family pictures of my immediate family and I even was able to show all my flabbergasted and highly impressed friends my family singing Happy Birthday to my mother when she turned 103 last month.

Magellan Road Mate 700 $1,469.99
Garmin 2610. $1,166.65
Magellan Road Mate 500 $1159.99
Garmin StreetPilot III Deluxe $799.99
Garmin iQue 3600 $589.27
Garmin GPS V Deluxe $428.56 (BLAH monochrome screen)

And there's only one I can play solitare on when waiting for my wife at the Doctors office.

[kefer]

Originally posted by dirkus
The battery life is an issue that needs to be addressed but it is not a fair comparison when you compare how long the iQue lasts to a less powerful, PDA only unit.

You hit the nail on the head there...you simply can't compare a normal pda to an iQue when you are talking about battery life - the comparison is apples to oranges.

How many of you Garmin SPIII users are there out there that have tried using it on batteries...that thing chews through batteries so fast it makes your head spin. You basically can't use it without a powered car kit.

That said, I would like to see the battery life on the iQue improved, and I'm sure it will be in future models. But you have to understand that the gps receiver is a battery hog - no way around it. Personally I always use the gps in the car kit, so it is always fully charged when I get to where I'm going.

[JR1]

I think the IQue is a great concept. I haven't bought one yet for the simple reason that every message board or review board talks about all the problems it has. It being a first generation product pda/gps there was bound to be problems.

It seems like Garmin is working hard to correct them on the software side and it sounds from reading here....that they are also correcting this in hardware as they make new units. And I haven't heard anyone say that Garmin won't fix my pda when it decided to die. It does appear that death is coming quickly for many units. At least they are reviving them and in most cases they seem to work better than they ever have.

Saturday I made my 3rd trip in 3 months to the Compusa store to play with one of these babies. I'm waiting for a few more bugs to be fix before I buy one but I can't wait. I must say that it was hard to leave it in the store.

The problems....well I did identify the ones you guys have.....
1. Battery life is terrible. While I played with it in the store I could see the batttery indicator going down before my eyes....
2. The power cord pin is so thin I can see why it breaks off a lot.
3. The unit is not very physically strong. I tried to see how sturdy it was in my hands and it wasn't very.
4. The Antenna was very hard to open without a lot of force. Makes you wonder how long it will be before you scratch the case trying to get it open.
5. The speaker volume was very low even at the highest settings.
6. The software bundle sucks. Should have at least full versions of doc to go.
7. No Wifi, bluetooth, or sdio :(

Things I loved....
1. It has a beautiful screen (if only it had enough power to let you use the blacklight all the time)
2. It was very fast.
3. The GPS was very cool.
4. It is light weight and attactive.
5. It is made by Garmin who typically make great stuff with great support.
6. Plays Mp3's.

I can't wait till some of these problems are corrected so I can buy one. I'm dying to get on the badwagon and do some geocacheing as well.

[mmoy]

I bought the 3600 for a long trip and
it basically paid for itself in its utility on
that one trip. Saving time and frustration
carry a high value for me when I'm on
the road.

I love it as a PDA too. Nice screen with
great resolution and I like the GPS
software. I use it in a corporate
environment though we're engineering
types. We understand what it can and
can't do and what the limitations are.

We have our personal solutions to the
power problem. Some keep cradles in
the office. Some have USB power
devices and some of us charge it in
the car on the way in if we need a
charge.

I'd have no problem buying their next
model. I pretty much expected that
they would have some problems in
their first unit related to hardware.

[dirkus]

Something to remember regarding batteries is that the new Garmin 2610 doesn't even have the option of running on batteries!

[Moose Man]

The battery life - it's as good as any other PDA when used as a PDA.

Use it as a GPS and it's now performing two functions. Can your flashlight (AA batteries) last as long if it were also playing MP3's, showing you the way, and PDAing?

The GPS is good. It gets you to where you want to go with voice commands and on screen commands. It's even smart enough to power down and still keep GPSing until you need to be told when to turn again.

Is it perfect - no! Can it be improved, yes! But Garmin did a d*** fine job with the very first PDA, GPS, Voice Recorder, MP3 playing device - a d*** fine job.

Perhaps those who are dissappointed that it won't fly them to their location or won't walk them to their location - were woo'd by the Toy factor. That's unfortunate and I feel for them. They bought something that doesn't suit their needs. Perhaps they all bought the device too early before there was enough perusing of this forum.

I don't believe Garmin misrepresented the device. It PDA's, it GPS's, it Voice Records, and it plays MP3s.

It's not designed to do anything else Tell me any other device that does all this for the price that you can carry in one hand.

Ok now that I've ranted - here are some things that should be improved:

1. Replaceable battery - forget longer battery life won't happen and keep the Palm format or small enough foot print to carry comfortably. (BTW my T3 has a much brighter screen and it's battery doesn't last as long. But I'm not complaing because I'm not expecting it to last more than 3 to 4 hours without being recharged).
2. Screen - Garmin build a "hood" as an accessory that will fit on the Que and allow shading on the screen for those individuals whose car setup is too bright to see the screen.


I'll get off the soap box with this one last thought:

The Que is the best device out there that is one form factor that does PDA, GPS. Voice Record and MP3 and that's a fact. Because it's the only device out there in a single form factor.

Keep up the good work Garmin and I'll sign up to buy the next version.

Signed,

A very Happy Customer. :)

[coop]

I think that the iQue is an amazing device, and Garmin has packed a whole lot into a very small package.

They have also been working hard to solve problems as they arise, and seem to be keeping people happy with their responsiveness when machines have to be returned.

The battery life is something everyone has commented on. I'm glad to hear that the battery is on par with other modern Palms when used as a PDA. That's good news. All in all, I'm not surprised that the life is not all that long when the unit is running as a GPS. Just carry a charger or some other way of feeding it periodically. Personally, I would have preferred some method of swapping a battery than the current internal non user replaceable unit. This would be nice on a trip/hike and it would also be nice not to have to send it to the factory when, an a year or two the internal battery no longer holds a charge...

The self reseting is, in my opinion, very bad. These seem to have be converted from a Hard reset to a Soft reset with the latest OS flash. This is clever, and is a really good method of solving a potentially product killing problem. (Why bother to keep information in a produt that can't be depended on?). Even better, it solves it in the field, where the customer can do it.

But, I hope they regard this as a stop-gap measure, and not a real solution to the problem.

I'd still like to see them address the static problem as a change to the hardware to make it less suceptible to static. This might mean extra shielding (spray on, probably) in the case, or the addition of ferrites or RC networks to the board. Depends on the entry methods of the static and the board layouts. Depends on a lot actually, and there probably isn't a lot of room to play with!

I just can't figure out why the reset/static problem was not noticed during testing.... (actually, I can think of a few reasons, including component tolerances and "component substitution" issues, but they should have been picked up earlier...

And there are other issues I would like to see changed (communications in general) but I have outlined them in other messages before, so I won't repeat them here.

It's a neat unit. I don't want to suggest that garmin has produced garbage. Far from it. There are problems, but they appear to be working on them. All products, especially very new ones, have to be evaluated carefully. Both the Wow Factor and actual uses have to be considered. I wouldn't think this this is the best thing to use for heavy hiking (a walk in the woods, or day hiking yes - outward bound , no) or for aircraft navigation. There are specialised devices for those activities.

I hope Garmin keeps improving the beastie, and I wish them the best of luck.

I'm sure it's just a matter of time before I get my own. After all, if I wasn't impressed with the product, I wouldn't be reading and posting in this forum, even though I don't yet have one myself!

Hey Moose Man. I like the idea of a screen/hood. Maybe they could come up with something that would close over the front of the iQue, like the hard screen on the Palm III series, Light, strong and easily removable... You actually have one, is there any way you can see that this might be possible (based on the actual physical design of the unit).

coop

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by coop
Hey Moose Man. I like the idea of a screen/hood. Maybe they could come up with something that would close over the front of the iQue, like the hard screen on the Palm III series, Light, strong and easily removable... You actually have one, is there any way you can see that this might be possible (based on the actual physical design of the unit).

coop

coop - the cover (leather) on the Que unlike the III series Palm, attaches at the bottom. This is predicated by the antenna unfolding at the top so the that would get in the way. I'm not an engineer but looking at the Que there are enough lips and ledges that something could be built.

However, I'm not certain that unless subsequent units use the same form factor at the top will an aftermarket company want to build an antiglare screen. If they keep the same form factor at the bottom someone might be able to invest in building such a device. It would be easy enough to be built but what material would be translucent enough yet antireflective/glare. Anybody from Polariod around?

As you know - Palm's Universal Connector isn't on every subsequent model since it's inception. The Zire and the new Tungsten E don't use it. Garmin did the right thing by using it on the Que but I'm willing to bet that Garmin is keeping the next unit close to the vest and as such we won't see too many aftermarket companies jumping on the accessory band wagon.

It's a good idea that you have - Garmin are you listening?

Apersson850 - perhaps you can pass along to your contacts! :)

[CaptainSpalding]

Originally posted by Moose Man
Perhaps those who are dissappointed that it won't fly them to their location or won't walk them to their location - were woo'd by the Toy factor. That's unfortunate and I feel for them. They bought something that doesn't suit their needs. Perhaps they all bought the device too early before there was enough perusing of this forum.

I don't believe Garmin misrepresented the device. It PDA's, it GPS's, it Voice Records, and it plays MP3s.

It's not designed to do anything else Tell me any other device that does all this for the price that you can carry in one hand.You suggest that those of us who are voicing disappointment with the iQue do so because our expectations were unreasonable from the start.

Yes, it PDA's, but a PDA that routinely loses all the contact and appointment information that one puts into it isn't a particularly good PDA.

Yes, it GPS's, but it doesn't have all the features that were promised to me by Garmin's pre-sales support - features, by the way, that are included in Garmin's most rudimentary GPS units.

Yes, it plays MP3's, but the memory limitations make it a less-than-average MP3 player. Oh, wait. You want music and maps at the same time? So sorry.

A voice memo recorder? Okay, I'll give you that one.

Perhaps those who are dissappointed that it won't fly them to their location or won't walk them to their location - were woo'd by the Toy factor.

Gee, Moose. Thanks for that little bit of condescension. I wasn't woo'd by the "toy factor." I'm disappointed by it. As I said earlier, the iQue is more toy than tool. Don't try to sell me the idea that Garmin only intended this thing to be used on the street. They publish BlueChart maps for it.

Pop quiz, hot shot. Your out at sea, island hopping in your sailboat. The fog rolls in and visibilty is nil. Then your not-so-trusty iQue takes a crap. What do you do? What do you do?

Oh, I'll just shrug my shoulders and say to myself, "er - I guess it wasn't designed for mission critical use. I wonder why they offered charts for it, anyway." What a load.

[dirkus]

I agree 100% with Moose Man. Capt. Spalding, you seem to have a bad unit. Other people here have reported problems (including myself) but, for the most part, seem to have resolved them with Garmin's help. Have you RMA'ed your unit or are you one of the users that just can't live without their iQue for the week it takes?

(PS: Mine doesn't routinely lose all address or contact data -- in fact it never has even once. Also, what critical GPS features are missing that aren't being addressed?)

[apersson850]

No need to - they aren't that ignorant at Garmin that they don't sniff around in these forums by themselves. You can be certain about that what's written here is considered in Olathe.

Regarding the iQue itself, and the people who deliver it, I can make a comparison with another manufacturer of high-tech units, intended to be carried around - Canon.
They make one of the best series of SLR cameras in the world, used by professionals and amateurs alike.
Apart from the optics, it's about the same thing as the iQue, i.e. a case with some electronics inside. Driven by software, of course.

How do Canon respond to customers reports and complaints regarding faults and missing features:
They may, or may not, use the ideas in the next model that comes out. They couldn't care less about faults in their current units, as far as the buyer is concerned. I think it's a Japanese attitude. They test and test and test and test. When they are satisfied, off it goes. If there is something they didn't find during testing, well, then that's how that model is.

How do they handle the durability issue: They have more than one model. Typically, all but one or two of their top models are plastic, light-weight and feature laden units, with a price tag that's within easy reach (low end models) to bearable (higher end models) to an enthusiastic amateur. That user will also handle his fine camera with the care he knows has to be used, or it will be broken.
For the professional photographer, they have some top range versions, that have a lot more metal in the casing, often more than 50 additional sealings to keep water and dust out and a price tag that would buy a nice car.
These are a professionals tool, and they are sold to people who just have to rely on their tool to make their living. They expect it to be armoured, and it is (almost).

While it's easy to see that the iQue could have been made like that, I too think that would have been the wrong end to start at. I'm sure there is a market for a GPS/PDA which can double as something you place under the wheel of your car, to make up for a lousy parking brake, but I'm equally convinced that that particular market is preciously small.

Try turning your iQue around 180º, i.e. hold it at the antenna end with the screen facing you. It's thicker at that end, something which is easily felt, even if it's not that much of a difference.
Imaging making an iQue 8600, this thick all the way (to allow for a larger battery), with a metallic case (cold in the winter), sealed buttons, sealed loudspeaker (perhaps lower sound level as a result?), some kind of screen protection built-in, plugs and covers over SD-card slot, earphone jack etc. and more heavy-duty conncectors (they would fit in, since the unit now is thicker at that end). Throw in a 400 MHz processor and 64 MB of internal memory to juice it up a little. This comes with a MSRP saying USD 2999.99.

Here you have an equivalent to a Canon EOS-1, as compared to a Canon EOS 3000.

No doubt it can be sold, but not in very great numbers.

At this page (http://www.algonet.se/~cart/asmund.htm), which concerns map making for orienteering (it's in Swedish, so most of you can't read it, but the pictures are in English), there is a weather-proof PDA, intended for outdoor working. The cost is about USD 2100. I should add that that's the cost in Sweden, converted at todays exchange rate to US dollars.
You can read about it in English here (http://trimblecenter.dk/pdf/Trimble_Recon_Datasheet_0403.pdf). As you can see, it's made by Trimble, who are aiming more at a professional market, not end consumers.

Personally, I don't think Garmin would have choosen the right path, had they decided to make a unit like that. Not as a first step, at least.

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by CaptainSpalding
You suggest that those of us who are voicing disappointment with the iQue do so because our expectations were unreasonable from the start.

Yes, it PDA's, but a PDA that routinely loses all the contact and appointment information that one puts into it isn't a particularly good PDA.No, it doesn't 'routinely' lose all contact and appointment information. There were problems with hard resets that were addressed by Garmin, if you didn't take advantage of them, that's your fault. I haven't lost anything whatsoever since I RMA'd my iQue.

Yes, it GPS's, but it doesn't have all the features that were promised to me by Garmin's pre-sales support - features, by the way, that are included in Garmin's most rudimentary GPS units.I'd like to know exactly what Garmin promised that isn't there. Everything I read of the specs seems to be as advertised and provided.

Yes, it plays MP3's, but the memory limitations make it a less-than-average MP3 player. Oh, wait. You want music and maps at the same time? So sorry.I've never understood the passion for MP3's, that's what I have a car/house stereo for. Then again, I'm not into 'divergence' units for cell phones, PDA's, etc.

Gee, Moose. Thanks for that little bit of condescension. I wasn't woo'd by the "toy factor." I'm disappointed by it. As I said earlier, the iQue is more toy than tool. Don't try to sell me the idea that Garmin only intended this thing to be used on the street. They publish BlueChart maps for it.

Pop quiz, hot shot. Your out at sea, island hopping in your sailboat. The fog rolls in and visibilty is nil. Then your not-so-trusty iQue takes a crap. What do you do? What do you do?

Oh, I'll just shrug my shoulders and say to myself, "er - I guess it wasn't designed for mission critical use. I wonder why they offered charts for it, anyway." What a load. No, you avoid that situation by having backup programs on your card, and by making sure you've done all the upgrades Garmin has to offer. And there is NOTHING in their literature about the iQue being an ocean navigation unit. Yes, map products are available for marine use, but if you go to Garmin's page (I'm on it right now), there is nothing linking the iQue to marine use. Just because something will work in an application it wasn't designed for doesn't mean you have to use it that way.

Many people are happy with their iQue's. Some aren't. At least Garmin has offered us the opportunity to try out new technology, even while it evolves. If you don't want to play on that edge, then don't. I want to.

[Wallace Matsen]

hey guys and gals

we have lost our sense of humor and our facts have barbs on them ...cool it ...:D ...life is to short for this nonsense ....disagree without being disagreeable

[JBrian]

As a
Hand held GPS == not that good battery life sucks and no on board Compess

Car Naviagation == as good as any in car nav systems I have seen and has a better user interface at about 1/4 the price.

PDA === not as robust as it could be. But a really nice screen

MPM Player === not real good, has trouble with high compressed files and no features.

Voice memo pad === better then most not as good as some.


As a $500 product that is all of the above. The Best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cool:

[Last Mrk]

Since I got my unit back from it's RMD, I have had no problems. MP3's play as good as my CD player in my car no skips no restarts just solid play time, even while navigating.

It has soft reset a few times but they are almost unnoticeable to me. Each time it was when taking the Q out of a pocket so I imagine it's static related. I'm going to get anti static spray and spray my winter coats and see if that helps.

[paqtoque]

This Palm does everything it was advertised to do for me ....
--> found my way around in California, in Texas, in the Washington DC area on business trips (by car) and in New Jersey where I live, also Garmin supports a bean bag (which I actually like) that does NOT make you fiddle with the power connector
By the way, it comes with ROADmaps, which would be a pointer to me that it is NOT meant for aircraft navigation ...
--> plays MP3's for me on my daily bus ride to work AND let's me read AvantGo concurrently (with battery to spare after a 45 min to an hour bus ride, just don't use it at full brightness)
--> Has NEVER lost my address book and contact information (if it crashes there IS an automatic backup on your PC if you regularly sync your unit)
--> Point is you have to take care of it, hell yeah you know it and you treat it like all other electronics --> you are not going to carelessly drop your CD Player on the floor, are you?

My post does NOT mean that ther are no improvements to make, but the statement that the iQue does not deliver what it is advertised for IS PLAIN wrong!

[jonasolof]

It night be sobering to realize that we pay about 1100 USD for an iQue in Europe according to current currency rates (900 Euros x 1.22 ). Maybe that's why expectations on quality are a little bit higher. And the price of a Panasonic 512 MB card is abt 420 USD.
(all prices VAt incl).

Jonas

[CaptainSpalding]

Some of you report to having had no problems. That's great. I'm not saying that you are in the minority. Probably those of us who have had many problems are the minority. But it's a large minority.

To answer some of the questions (or should I say, accusations) put forth since my last post:

Dirkus: No, I'm not one of those who can't live long enough without the Q to RMA it. I did RMA it. The problem was that the IR port was dead when I took it new out of the box. I didn't make a big deal out of it in my earlier rant because that doesn't seem to be an endemic problem.

Reinbeau: Of course backing up is essential with any electronic storage device. But I have had to restore from backup way too frequently. It's not "my fault" that the blasted thing does random hard resets. In every other GPS that Garmin makes there is a basic GPS function: a simple screen with a bearing, distance, and pointer to a waypoint. That was promised to me by pre-sales support and not delivered. Re: avoiding the situation by backing up - How many times A DAY do you deem it necessary to back up your PC? To be safe, I have to back up my Q every time I put new data in it. Re: if you don't want to play on the edge, then don't. Fine. If Garmin will give me a refund for the Q and all the map software I bought, I'll gladly shut my yap and go away.

Wallace: Yes, I have lost my sense of humor, and justifiably so. As for disagreeing without being disagreeable - you are right. My bad. I will endeavor to curb my sarcasm. Thanks for the reminder.

[N2racin88]

Yes, it plays MP3's, but the memory limitations make it a less-than-average MP3 player. Oh, wait. You want music and maps at the same time? So sorry.

Buy a bigger card.

Pop quiz, hot shot. Your out at sea, island hopping in your sailboat. The fog rolls in and visibilty is nil. Then your not-so-trusty iQue takes a crap. What do you do? What do you do?

Use a paper map and compass. A GPS unit is only to be used as a secondary navigation device as outlined in all GPS manufacter user guides.

[N2racin88]

CS I find it hard to believe that you are still having hard resets with your unit if you have the Release 2 software in it. If you are then maybe you have an issue with the unit that Garmin can solve. Believe me when I say that they have taken care of any issue I had with my unit and now I have a unit that has been problem free for over a month.

[Pekkle]

Hi Guys,
Chill a bit.. It's Winter pretty much about every where in the world so let's be cool. :)

Personally, I am not really statisfied with my iQue (But I haven't sent it back yet, affraid that the one come back might be worse..), due to a couple of reasons. First. Poping noise, I hate that.. it really drives me crazy. Second, the screechign noise.. Well according to Garmin that can be fixed by hardware. Lastly, I hate the hardware reset which is solved by R2 (Now Softreset), I still think that's not good enough.. a good PDA not to mention a PDA w/GPS, should not reset by itself soft or hard due to static, because you will never know when you will fry some componets inside.

However, Garmin does a great job on supporting their customers. look at their firmware releases for all their Garmin units, They really keep them up to date and as problem free as possible. Not to mention they have a pretty good customer service that address customer's issues fairly polite and professional. and RMA turn around are fast and quick.

So all in all, I must say there is nothing really perfect in the world. Believe me! I tried!! everything I buy is never perfect..I really want a perfect gadget, but till this date, I have not found one yet..

Lastly, Let me start a Poll and see how many people like or dislike their iQue. that way we know clearly how many pople enjoy or dislike their iQue.. but then again, some people might not care what others think.. :D

[wingnut]

For a really serious gadget- your'e gonna have to spend serious bucks!I ride a mc and for any thing that will do what an 1800 goldwing will do you need to part with the $$$. Same with this- theres lots to spend more on but this suits me fine .If it screws up I won't fall out of the sky!!

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by CaptainSpalding
You suggest that those of us who are voicing disappointment with the iQue do so because our expectations were unreasonable from the start.

Yes, it PDA's, but a PDA that routinely loses all the contact and appointment information that one puts into it isn't a particularly good PDA.

Yes, it GPS's, but it doesn't have all the features that were promised to me by Garmin's pre-sales support - features, by the way, that are included in Garmin's most rudimentary GPS units.

Yes, it plays MP3's, but the memory limitations make it a less-than-average MP3 player. Oh, wait. You want music and maps at the same time? So sorry.

A voice memo recorder? Okay, I'll give you that one.



Gee, Moose. Thanks for that little bit of condescension. I wasn't woo'd by the "toy factor." I'm disappointed by it. As I said earlier, the iQue is more toy than tool. Don't try to sell me the idea that Garmin only intended this thing to be used on the street. They publish BlueChart maps for it.

Pop quiz, hot shot. Your out at sea, island hopping in your sailboat. The fog rolls in and visibilty is nil. Then your not-so-trusty iQue takes a crap. What do you do? What do you do?

Oh, I'll just shrug my shoulders and say to myself, "er - I guess it wasn't designed for mission critical use. I wonder why they offered charts for it, anyway." What a load.


I never mentioned anyone by name in my post and if you took offense at my "general" comments then I apologize. So let me clarify my postion:

Here is listing from the IQue page at Garmin regarding BlueChart compatibilty or any other asterisk* software.
____________________________________________
Limited Compatibility


Some Garmin units may only access limited features when used with certain MapSource products. In these cases, an asterisk has been placed by that product.

"Limited capability" may mean that a unit may be able to draw all the map features from the MapSource software, such as roads, lakes, nav-aids, depth contours, wrecks, etc., but the interactive capability of the maps may be limited. For example, you may not be able to "find nearest marinas" or look up additional text about a specific mapping feature.

We encourage you to e-mail cartography@garmin.com if you have any questions about the compatibility of certain units and MapSource products.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

To me this indicates that Garmin disclaims the Que as a NAVAID for the open ocean but I will freely admit that I'm not a sailor. However, if I were a sailor - I would think that my 50K+ (or 1k) sailboat should have some sort of NAVAID that is certified by the U.S. Coast Guard or other approved device. Clearly the Que is not such a device - because Garmin would proudly display that "moniker" to increase sales.

Regarding Flying, I would think that the FAA would also need to certify a device for such usage. I'm not a pilot but I did check with my 3 brothers in law who fly for commercial airlines and they confirmed my suspicion regarding the FAA.

I inferred that the device is not designed for such usage. It is similar in taking a knife and trying to use it as a hammer. The end result will be dissapointment. In this case - I believe that the dissapointment here is similar to that knife/hammer scenario.

Therefore to call the Que under such circumstances "A clever toy just not serious" is a misrepresentation. It is serious as a GPS, MP3, Voice Recorder and more importantly a PDA which is it's primary target market, IMHO.

And BTW - I still haven't mentioned anyone by name nor attacked them with any condensending comment directly.


:D

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by dirkus
Something to remember regarding batteries is that the new Garmin 2610 doesn't even have the option of running on batteries!

Hats off to you Dirkus,

To the rest of the posters here - Dirkus used his Que to walk 60 miles for a worthy cause knowing full well what to expect using his Que.

I applaud you sir! :)

[CaptainSpalding]

Originally posted by Moose Man
I never mentioned anyone by name in my post and if you took offense at my "general" comments then I apologize.Let's see, Moose. fkend starts a thread with a post about how his iQue let him down on an airplane trip. In a subsequent post, you defend the iQue, and at the same time interject a bit of hyperbole about iQue users being disappointed that the iQue won't "fly" them to their destination.

And now you expect me to believe that you weren't taking a shot directly at fkend, anonymity notwithstanding? No, you didn't mention any names, but your target was surely made clear by the context. You made a condescending remark, I called you on it, and now your trying to make it out to be my misinterpretation. Nice try.

[Moose Man]

Perhaps those who are dissappointed that it won't fly them to their location or won't walk them to their location - were woo'd by the Toy factor. That's unfortunate and I feel for them. They bought something that doesn't suit their needs. Perhaps they all bought the device too early before there was enough perusing of this forum.

This is the comment that I made that seems to have invoked an issue. This comment was made as a general statement that the Que is not designed to be used as a flight instrument. That's my opinion.

I did not "flame" anyone by making that statment. No one starts a thread on this forum assuming that it will not either invoke a response or an opinion, I don't believe. By the very nature of forums - it is a place to share opinions, knowledge and to request advice.

Anyone who read my full post should assume that I don't believe the Que was designed for flight nor for long walks. I would hope that it would not be inferred that it was a "flame" on the individual.

In this case, if I offended fkend by stating my opinion then I due apologize to him.

[Curious Cat]

Wow, I take a week off from this board and all hell breaks loose….

Anyone who starts a topic with the title “A clever toy just not serious” in a forum full of IQue lovers is going to get a little heat and that goes also to anyone who says “me too” to the poster. You might as well go to the “Right to Life Forum” and post your support for abortions and then ask not to be flamed. In “fkend’s” defense he elicited the response he wanted and has not complained about the negative responses, nothing wrong with that. I don’t want to infer so I’ll just mention “CaptainSpalding” may be taking this too seriously. I doubt if Moose meant anything personal, at best he was attacking your position, a logical approach when one disagrees. Your correct response should be to defend your position, not to take it personally. When one plays chess you think of moves, not throwing the board. And Moose, would you please stop apologizing….


BTW, I love my IQue. It’s primarily designed for the urban creature who wants directions in his car and to keep their life organized. Everything else it does is just a bonus but not it’s reason for existence. I bought mine because it was better, IMO, then any stand alone GPS device for the same money plus it’s a Palm. If you primarily want a device for just hiking, boating, or flying this might not be the best choice for you but it may suffice if you need to use it occasionally for any of those activities.

[prjohnsonjr]

I bought my IQUE in August to support me on a trip to NY, Ny and Boston. I flew into NY and drove to Boston using the IQUE to find the way, find places to sleep, find places to eat, and find contacts in my address book.

For the device performed 100%

I've had a few unexpected resets, mostly before the updates, but never lost any data.

I've not had any of the unpleasant experiences that are often expressed in this forum. For that I am greatful. I have updated my unit as updates became available, mostly by way of this forum. I appreciate the value of a forum like this and appreciate the mostly positive attitude that helps user become more adept at getting the most out of the product and other software that is compatible with IQUE. I have gotten lots of help from various members of this forum and to me they represent a large ROI.

Thanks for the discussion

Paul

[fkend]

Hi, what have I started? I take offence from no one!

Lets get this straight, I have no idea where the earlier comments about the FAA and GPS come from? there is no problem with using a iQue for navigation on a PPL, but like all navigation when it goes wrong you have to carry on and use VOR's, NDB's, number one eyeball and map this being what we are taught before we get a license.

The iQue has provided within it a perfectly adequate system for use in a plane, it provides a direct course line to destination (when in off road mode), it has a heading line and also speed over the ground, I have no problems with this. The problem is that the gadget is too flimsy, I correct myself, the connectors are to flimsy and the battery is inadequate for running in GPS mode.
To compound the issue there are no sources of good back-up power in easily mounted packages. I would suggest that to ask for 4 hours runnng in GPS mode on batteries is not too much to ask?

[Bobny]

fkend

I hesitate to reply to this thread given the strong feelings voiced but following Curious Cat's advice and sticking to the facts. I do agree that the battery is not adequate to power the GPS and mapping functions for extended periods of time.

On my boat, I use a dedicated GPS for primary navigation, a GPSMap76, but I got tired of constantly replacing the batteries every 8 hours on weeks of sailing. My previous GPS went 12 hours between battery wearout. In both cases I bought a 12v plug just for the convenience of leaving the gps on and not having to worry about batteries (they always seemed to need replacement at the most inconvenient times! e.g. entering a harbor!)

For the iQue, I bought the Garmin car kit. In addition to powering the iQue through the Plam connector from the cigarette lighter, it also provides a secure cradle (it locks the iQue in place, it can't fall out) for the iQue and an external speaker for the voice directions. I have found it entirely adequate. Since the iQue is locked into the cradle, the 12v connector does not disengage and I don't worry about batteries anymore. The fragile 12v plug on the iQue is not used by the car cradle, the power goes through the Palm connector.

Some people do not like the "bean bag" approach of the Garmin car kit but it has an anti-slip surface on the bottom which works well for me. Some have separated the cradle from the bean bag and more securely attached the cradle to the car dashboard.

Of course this only works if you have access to a 12v power supply. For my use in a car, it works well. I'm not familiar with what's available in an airplane but you might look into getting the car kit.

[Last Mrk]

As I said in my first reply.Does it have limitations? Of course. But for most of them there are work arounds.Can't you find a AC power source in your plane to tap off of?

Can't you use the AutoNav kit which doesn't use the "flimsy" single pin AC adapter on the botom of the iQue?

[paqtoque]

naw ... i am not gonna post ... this thread has gone too far already ...

[JohnVa]

Wow, the 3600 must be awesome to raise all this EMOTION :)

I'm anxiously awaiting receipt of mine. My son has a new Honda Accord with their newest nav system, extremely impresive both in operation and price. If the 3600 gets me there for driving anything near the way his does for the price of the 3600 I don't care what else it does!

For the last 2 days I have been avidly reading all of the posts and reviews I can find and they have been very entertaining :) I have never owned a PDA, although my wife uses one all the time and loves it. The 3600 might not be a toy, but it is sure small enough to be one (a big guys toy, as my wife calls them) :) Let's see, my last one was the Nikon 5700 (which has give me thousands of beautiful pics to share).

I believe we need to view problems as a challenge to be solved and quit beating them over rthe head. With my previous Sony digital cam the FD-91 which also ate batteries, I simple adapted a 12 hour Sony NIMH with a coiled cord to attach it the cam, worked great in several trips hiking in Glacier NP MT. I'm sure someone has the skill to resolve this one too.

The large Memory cards may be expensive but what is it worth to store large amounts of data in small spaces? To me every penny, and while others are moaning and groaning I'll be out enjoying myself :) I admire those folks who develop and share solutions, anybody can find problems :)

...and that's entertainment!

John

[paul6347]

One store I was in I saw a battery pack for 12v applications, like cell phones and pda, etc. It was about the size of half a brick and weight a little less than that, and it was about $40 and said to give hundres of hours to pda usage with a full charge. Might be a handy and useful 12v battery pack to bring on a plane that doesn't have 12v oulets. Or anyplace that doesn't have a 12v power source, camping, hotel, etc. I've seen it in a trucking rest stop store.

[JohnVa]

There might be a way to marry one of the 12 hour nimh batteries with the desktop stand for the 3600 which seems fairly small?

see fig 12 and 13 at http://www.**********.com/reviews/default.asp?reviewID=231

I still have that Sony 12 hour nimh battery :)

[Curious Cat]

OK, it's settled!!

Fkend, your IQue is fine, you need to take your airplane back and get one that has a cigarette lighter (12V).:D

[Last Mrk]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
OK, it's settled!!

Fkend, your IQue is fine, you need to take your airplane back and get one that has a cigarette lighter (12V).:D

Keep the plane, just find an alterative way to power it.

[fkend]

Ok I started this one and I reckon we are going round in circles so I am retiring from this subject.
Thank you all for your comments and opinions.

[eewanco]

I can understand how losing data and going through RMAs and resets would be frustrating.

Personally I have not lost any data on my iQue, nor required an unplanned hard reset. I have not noticed any static problems. I got the modem screech two or three times and I need to RMA it for the antenna, but overall after three months I am quite satisfied and happy with my iQue, both as a PDA and as a GPS. I am not saying that you should be satisfied, because everyone has his own needs, requirements, and tolerance for imperfection. Me, I can afford to be non-chalant and forgiving (I introduce it to my friends saying "Hey, check out my new toy"). I realize not everyone can.

I do think this is a bleeding edge product and problems are to be expected. It's a trailblazer, there is no doubt. If this were a bottom-performing product in a field of a half-dozen comparable products the situation would be different.

Also this is definitely not a product to rely on in life-or-death situations. It's a low-end, consumer-grade product. As others have pointed out, this device is not suitable as the only navigation system for marine or aviation use. Maybe Garmin should be more up front about this fact, but they do market it as an auto navigation system.

I guess my comment would be that this product has the potential to be a mature, solid product that works as well as any other PDA and as well as other consumer-grade GPSes. No, it is not there yet., but as others have pointed out, Garmin is working hard.

For all those would-be iQue buyers who searched and found this thread, I guess I'd say that if you can be somewhat tolerant and forgiving, and intend to use the iQue for typical purposes -- personal auto navigation and short hikes or walks in populated areas -- there is a very good chance you will be happy with it.

Eric

[vectorman]

I know a co-worker who just returned from a 3-week trip.

I asked him how the iQue worked (3 of us ordered iQue enmasse last spring and received them in August) and he answered with one word:

Indispensible.

He was in a 3-week training class and the guy sitting next to him ordered one on the second day of the class.

I feel about the same as he does.

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by eewanco


Also this is definitely not a product to rely on in life-or-death situations. It's a low-end, consumer-grade product. As others have pointed out, this device is not suitable as the only navigation system for marine or aviation use. Maybe Garmin should be more up front about this fact, but they do market it as an auto navigation system.I don't see how you can consider this a low-end, consumer-grade product. It is a high end PDA with GPS specifically targeted towards automotive use. The Palm Zire 21 is a low end consumer product.

For all those would-be iQue buyers who searched and found this thread, I guess I'd say that if you can be somewhat tolerant and forgiving, and intend to use the iQue for typical purposes -- personal auto navigation and short hikes or walks in populated areas -- there is a very good chance you will be happy with it. Absolutely true, although there is no reason to limit it to personal auto, there have already been several professional truck drivers posting to this forum that use it for their job.

[cohenc]

Originally posted by reinbeau
[B]I don't see how you can consider this a low-end, consumer-grade product. It is a high end PDA with GPS specifically targeted towards automotive use. The Palm Zire 21 is a low end consumer product.

Well, I tend to agree with eewanco. I have been using Palm's since Pilot was an official part of their name. This is the least stable one I have ever owned. The Palm OS and hardware platform is quite mature, but the iQue crashes, loses data and flat out won't run software entirely too often. From a PDA point of view, this makes it "low-end" to me.

I love my iQue and wouldn't trade it for the world, but it still baffles my mind that the Palm part of the PDA is so quirky and unstable I would never consider it high end. We're in that area where we used to have an incredible stable platform, but now we add to it color, lightning fast processors, SD support, full screen and it becomes at times unusable with the battery life of a gnat. At some point, for the average user, these features are to the detriment and a less feature-rich model that will work when called upon would be a better tool for them.

I am willing to accecpt these draw backs because I enjoy being on the bleeding edge. I do NOT recommend it to novice techies though. They would not be as forgiving as I, or eewanco. As he said, if there were other options out there, the iQue would be unaccecptable.

Cheers,
Caleb

[jonasolof]

The iQue is fine if

- you make sure all you data is backed up to card and desktop often.

- you have a spare Palm with all your important stuff on (also with it's back up)

- if you need navigation, a fool proof GPs such as Garmin 76, GPSV or Magellan Sportrak or Meridian with street maps.

With these saferty measures taken you can enjoy the bleeding edge performance of the iQue. I have yet to use mine for contacts and datebook.

Jonas

[eewanco]

Ann,

I actually didn't mean that it was a "low-end consumer-grade" product, but rather that it was a "low-end, consumer-grade" product, not as opposed to a high-end consumer-grade product, but as opposed to a high-end, professional, marine, aviation, commercial or industrial grade product. If that's at all clear. ;-) (In retrospect I probably should have said "consumer-grade, low-end product.") It's like the difference between the $200-$400 cameras and the $1000-$2000 cameras. The first is consumer grade, the second is professional grade.

If anyone contests this, go to the Garmin website and see that they list the iQue under the "Consumer" heading (specifically, "mobile electronics").

There is nothing inherently wrong with consumer-grade products. You use the tool appropriate to the job. There is no reason to buy a $2,000 camera to take pictures of your kids for the family website. You just have to be aware of their limitations.

reinbeau,

I don't doubt the product is useful to truck drivers. Nor will I contest that there are truck drivers that are perfectly happy with it. In many cases consumer-grade products work adequately well in a commercial environment. I do think they are taking a certain risk, and if they understand and can tolerate that risk, great. If you like it, as I do, use it, and be happy. I think some people are finding though that they cannot tolerate the risks of using the product. My response is simply that it's reliability meets the lower standards of a consumer-grade product, not the higher standards of a commercial-grade product.

I actually think the risk is more tolerable with truck drivers because if the iQue totally craps out on them, they might get delayed but they'll eventually make it to their destination safely if unhappily, as opposed to marine and aviation users who can perish if they get lost. The worst risk for truck drivers is frustration and maybe some lost revenue.

Eric

[Last Mrk]

If you have a backup program installed on the iQue and HotSync on a regular basis, how can you lose your contact and reminder info?

It's been about a month since I got my iQue back from RMA (antenna) and I have no fear of losing anything on it. I have not had to use Backupman yet or had to restore from my desktop either.

[eewanco]

Last Mrk,

If you have a backup program installed on the iQue and HotSync on a regular basis, how can you lose your contact and reminder info?

Well, even if you regularly HotSync, if you are away from your PC, like on a vacation trip, and your iQue requires a hard reset on the way out (which happened to someone I know), you lose your data without an immediate backup and it can be pretty annoying.

Eric

[CaptainSpalding]

Originally posted by jonasolof
The iQue is fine if

- you make sure all you data is backed up to card and desktop often.

- you have a spare Palm with all your important stuff on (also with it's back up)

- if you need navigation, a fool proof GPs such as Garmin 76, GPSV or Magellan Sportrak or Meridian with street maps.

With these saferty measures taken you can enjoy the bleeding edge performance of the iQue. I have yet to use mine for contacts and datebook.

Jonas

Isn't the convenience of the iQue that the integration of a GPS into a PDA saves you from having to carry around one more gizmo? It sort of nullifies the convenience factor if the darn thing's so unreliable that you have to carry around a fully redundant system.:(

[Last Mrk]

eewanco

I did mention Backupman I believe.

I also learned that if you have an involuntary hard reset, answer NO to whether or not you want to erase all your data. At least give that a try first.

[jonasolof]

Originally posted by CaptainSpalding
Isn't the convenience of the iQue that the integration of a GPS into a PDA saves you from having to carry around one more gizmo? It sort of nullifies the convenience factor if the darn thing's so unreliable that you have to carry around a fully redundant system.:(

Captain,

One would be inclined to agree. But as a matter of fact, the iQue is so convenient for car navigation that that by itself gives it a raison d'ètre. And then photos etc. I wish though taht I had a 515, I have a mere m500, wit no backlight. But nothing like slipping one of these down in your pocket with an original palm case. I do have a Tungsten T also but I don't like that it is thicker and that the original case leaves the bottom connector bare and unproteted from coins, keys etc.

I think over all you and I agree on the iQue. It is an interesting and intriguing hobby tool - but nothing one could depend on in professional life as a medical professional, property developer or investor, just to mention my own recent fields.

However, I think we have carried the burden of being the pioneers and thanks to the feedback that Garmin (and Palm) has got from this unit, they'll be able to make high end and low end units in the future. As I showed with a copy of an email earlier, Garmin didn't even think that statics were going to present a problem. At the end, maybe this WAs the only way to proceed into a new market. You can't spend 7 years testing as they did with Lexus before bringing to market. Then, this stuff would already be obsolete.

So next year maybe, we'll find reliability and performance in one unit. And insh'Allah, also a good working antenna. But then, the user proposes and Garmin disposes.

Jonas

[Bobny]

I agree with Jonas on the convenience of using the iQue for car navigation.

Last weekend I reserved a parking space for $13/day next to a garage at $30/day in the theater district of NYC. The iQue led me exactly to the garage entrance. There were no obvious markings of the name of the garage but trusting Betty, I turned in and she was right.

On the way to catch the ferry for a trip to NYC this past weekend, the iQue led me to not only the ferry area which covers several acres, but exactly to the entrance which was not well marked.

The same thing happened on the way back, many of the signs are covered with soot and don't show up at night at all. Nevertheless, when Betty says "turn in 500 feet", I turn and she hasn't been wrong yet.

On the way down, there was construction so the detour signs wandered off into the distance. As soon as we got by, I followed Betty back onto my route, automatically.

All this happened after I had lost the flip up antenna and I'm now sitting on the phone waiting for Garmin to pick up so I can get an RMA number (music in the background...oh well, at least it's Christmas music) . Luckily, following the posts on this forum, I had a Gilsson antenna as backup and it worked without a problem.

Getting back to the point, I would have bought the iQue just for the car navigation capabilities. It has provided new confidence in traveling in unfamiliar places. I used to prepare maps, make copies, have a flashlight ready to read them with, try to find road signs (many missing or turned the wrong way) and usually would pull over to study the map when in areas I've never been before.

All that has changed with the iQue and I don't want to go back. Garmin has always come through in the past with their products in support and in fixing problems, I trust that they will do so with the iQue too. I'll stick with the iQue.

[cohenc]

Originally posted by eewanco
like on a vacation trip, and your iQue requires a hard reset on the way out (which happened to someone I know), you lose your data without an immediate backup and it can be pretty annoying.


Hey, now that's an experience! Once I was visiting a friend and while navigating through upstate NY, my iQue up and crashed big time. Lost everything. I was 12 hours into my week-long vacation and I lost all my contacts, all the places I was to visit, all my directions - you name it - gone.

The ONLY benefit was that the maps were mostly on the card, so I could still re-find my destination and navigate there. But being without my Palm data or ability to take additional notes, etc. while gone for a week was an outrage to me. In geese, what, 6 years of using a Palm, I've never lost my data before. Go ahead and try to tell me about back-up buddies and such - I shouldn't have to plan for this. The system should be robust enough to handle a cross-country trip! I mean I should have planned my trip and printed everything I wanted to do rather than store it all in the iQue.

Geese, eewanco, how did this person you know handle the situation. I know myself, I freaked and almost lost my sanity.

Cheers,
Caleb

[jonasolof]

Wanna lose data on a Palm like Vx or m500? start fiddling with half the stuff you do on an iQue. But the best way is to use it for internet communication via a cellular phone. I certainly have succeeded in crashing Palms-and losing data with hard resets. So I have learned the hard way to keep my contacts and calender out of harm's way, i.e. on a separate device. Then I can do all kinds oft tricks with the bleeding edge tools without being too nervous. So I guess I see myself and others as volunteer guinea pigs new tech implementations. But if the only feed back Garmin gets is a lot of eulogies, there is nothing gained for them. Bullshit is bullshit, even from a moose or an old goat like me. .


Jonas

[eewanco]

Geese, eewanco, how did this person you know handle the situation. I know myself, I freaked and almost lost my sanity.

What a coincidence, Caleb -- that's exactly how my friend reacted!

What're the odds of that??

Eric

[apersson850]

I may be more stupid, or brave, than most of you, but I actually do use my iQue at work as well.
Appointments, calculations (Excel) and having documents handy (Word).
Also for navigating to places, finding phone numbers to hotels and such.

Honestly, most of my crashes occur when testing some obscure software or similar things.
It does crash occasionally when doing something sensible as well, but the last versions have improved significantly. Just wait until Release 3 becomes official, and you'll see.
Some nice new functions as well!

[rbest]

The only trouble I had with Palm was when I tried to match it to Outlook. With the IQue I use it and my work PC for calendar and contacts, each backed up daily. My PC has crashed twice and been restored up by the IQue. I also back it up to my laptop, which I take with me on long trips, after loosing batteries on a prior palm on a trip, and not having a back up. I have lost material on the IQue once and restored from the laptop. Now I am waiting for the laptop to crash.

I am very happy with the system, which includes the PC and laptop. I am glad there is a backup card system, but I have not felt the need for it. Maybe if I was backpacking. I think Garmin and Palm have made a wonderful toy, that is deductable as a business expense.:cool:

(In posting this reply the web crashed twice, but I copied the reply before I sent it. Gotta think ahead of the glitches.)

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by cohenc
Geese, eewanco, how did this person you know handle the situation. I know myself, I freaked and almost lost my sanity.

Cheers,
Caleb The best way to handle it is to be prepared....have a copy of BackupMan or BackupBuddy VFS on your iQue and your card, and use them properly. I have recovered from hard resets flawlessly via BackupMan, the only reason I lost anything this past weekend was because I didn't have a backup from Saturday, only Friday (I have now fixed my scheduled backups to run all 7 days).

I know not everyone has these backup programs, but it is cheap insurance to be able to restore your iQue anytime, anywhere, and not lose a single contact/appointment/application whatever). Of course a catestrophic failure of your SD card means your outta luck, but I have yet to hear of that happening. $10 or $15 to protect your sanity is well worth it!!! :D

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by jonasolof
Wanna lose data on a Palm like Vx or m500? start fiddling with half the stuff you do on an iQue. But the best way is to use it for internet communication via a cellular phone. I certainly have succeeded in crashing Palms-and losing data with hard resets. So I have learned the hard way to keep my contacts and calender out of harm's way, i.e. on a separate device. Then I can do all kinds oft tricks with the bleeding edge tools without being too nervous. So I guess I see myself and others as volunteer guinea pigs new tech implementations. But if the only feed back Garmin gets is a lot of eulogies, there is nothing gained for them. Bullshit is bullshit, even from a moose or an old goat like me. .


Jonas

I resemble that remark:D

[Wolfreak]

Weee! Finally got to the end of all the replies to this post and topic. Now I get to add my opinion to the fray, not that it really makes a lick of difference, but here goes anyway...

Regarding the power pin being too small...I don't think this is entirely Garmin's fault. I wouldn't have thought that a standard plug size would have reliability problems, and they likely bought this part from another manufacturer. Stainless steel fish hooks are about the same diameter, and I can't remember ever breaking a hook on a fish. Simply a stronger material for the pin would fix this.

GPS for PDAs has been around for ages, but I wonder, how popular has it been? I'd hate to have used it on a 160x160 monochrome screen with no voice prompts. Garmin could have spent the time and money to make this the most expensive and well built PDA on the market, but where is the past marketing proof to prove how much people would be willing to pay for built in GPS? How much money should they have risked on a potential flop? I'd like to see more customizable options and more software in the iQue Apps, but to initially spend all the time and money to put this into a new product that people may have found too bulky or some other excuse not to buy could have really hurt the company. Instead, it comes with basic features it does well, and more updates on the way now that they know they have a winning product.

I dread the thought of this PDA being any larger to house a larger battery. Size is one of the reasons people buy Palm over Pocket PC. This one is already close to being a bit too bulky for some people's liking. Not having a previous similar product to go by, it would have been risky for Garmin to make it bulkier.

I find mine resets sometimes when running DocsToGo (though I did a scandisk on my SD and seems there was some more file trouble I didn't weed out, right in my spreadsheet files...) and some other programs. I am wondering how many people have run other OS5 devices, or are their previous Palms OS4 and less? I think most of my stability issues have been with pre OS5 software or just OS5 related. Saving Excel format spreadsheets takes awhile, so it seems there's a lot of places for glitches in code to hide in DocsToGo. I find I have to edit cell types on DocsToGo then save the document, because it seems to change them when I import from Excel, I don't think I can blame that on the iQue.

I think Garmin probably risked a reasonable amount of money and time to bring a new idea to market in a field they've never been involved in before. I wouldn't have minded spending $100 more for the chasis to be metal, but where do you draw the line? Seems most people are satisfied with the unit, and therefore they did an excellent job at finding the right balance on their first try. What if they had been wrong and there was no market for any device like the iQue? All the extra R&D put into making their idea of a perfect product would have just been more waste.

I'm still hotsyncing through the IR port on mine, because USB (or serial) doesn't work reliably on mine. I also have the broken power pin, screeching, and I can't install the latest software patch, but I'm waiting until January or Febuary to return it, when it sounds as though they'll have fixes to all the hardware troubles. Makes sense to me to only send it back once.

[apersson850]

A metal housing is of course more durable, but also significantly cooler to carry outdors during the chilly season. Something you aren't that likely to do for an hour with a non-GPS Palm, but rather likely to do with this one. If you don't have any better "outdoor GPS" in your drawers.

[paqtoque]

Thought this thread was over and we heard our final words from the pilot ...

Well guess not!

Not quite clear what all the talk re: reliability means. With VERY SIMPLE measures, you make sure the thingy IS reliable.
- You carry a backup on an SD card (backup is that thing that your IT manager tells you to do also for your desktop and laptop, but that most people never do ...), so that you can restore after a hard reset. And don't tell me price is an issue for a 64MB card that easily takes care of all your stuff in internal memory.
A Hard Reset is solved in 15 minutes (ok: 20)
- You buy a car charger so you don't run out of juice during a trip in a car. Ideally you buy Garmin's Car Kit, and use that, so you don't have the broken pin problem (which quite frankly, I would love to get solved). If you don't like the beanbag, you remove the cradle and attach it to a clip vent.

We should measure the reliability of this gadget based on it's purpose:
- As a PDA to manage contacts, task lists and appointments
- As a CAR navigation unit.
- To play MP3's
- And to run a lot of other software
It has never let me down for this stuff, and I rely on it a lot, for work and for fun.

[reinbeau]

Paqtoque, you've nailed it exactly!:)

[Skata]

If I knew the problems I would experience and the potential problems others have experienced with this product, and if I was aware that I would be returning it after 3 or 4 months of use for repairs and would be waiting anxiously for software updates to improve the functionality of the unit, I may not have bought it for what it cost.

But, also having the knowledge of how useful and fun this thing is, I would not hesitate in making the choice I made in buying it again.

While I was waiting for the release of this thing after the months of delays from the time they announced it, I was between being anxious to get it and patient for them to get the released unit working up to specs.

Even though we are beta testers for this product (as it has been suggested by somebody earlier), I could not be patient enough to wait until every bug is worked out and get a model a year or two after it is proved problem free.

I would rather buy something on the cutting edge (and put up with a few short comings) than wait for a perfectly produced product that has been out for a few years.

I couldn't be happier with this product. I use it around 90% for the GPS function and have not been disappointed with it at all.

For those of you that upgraded from a Palm device to this, I can kind of see your disappointment from reading these posts.

I upgraded from a GPS V to the iQue and it has more than fulfilled the purpose.

[vectorman]

I agree with paqtoque also, except for one thing:

My recoveries from a hard reset (and I've had TONS of those, but NONE since r2) only take about 2 or 3 minutes and I restore from BackupMan -- which is a necessity to have if you own an iQue.

Also, like Anders, I do use mine as my primary PDA and it's been working great.

Sure, I'd like one with no bugs, who wouldn't? I'm guessing they'll get it all worked out.

[kokopeli123]

Originally posted by paqtoque
Thought this thread was over and we heard our final words from the pilot ...

Well guess not!

Not quite clear what all the talk re: reliability means. With VERY SIMPLE measures, you make sure the thingy IS reliable.
- You carry a backup on an SD card (backup is that thing that your IT manager tells you to do also for your desktop and laptop, but that most people never do ...), so that you can restore after a hard reset. And don't tell me price is an issue for a 64MB card that easily takes care of all your stuff in internal memory.
A Hard Reset is solved in 15 minutes (ok: 20)
- You buy a car charger so you don't run out of juice during a trip in a car. Ideally you buy Garmin's Car Kit, and use that, so you don't have the broken pin problem (which quite frankly, I would love to get solved). If you don't like the beanbag, you remove the cradle and attach it to a clip vent.

We should measure the reliability of this gadget based on it's purpose:
- As a PDA to manage contacts, task lists and appointments
- As a CAR navigation unit.
- To play MP3's
- And to run a lot of other software
It has never let me down for this stuff, and I rely on it a lot, for work and for fun.

Been watching this thread with some interest, epecially since I used my iQue as my primary work PC and use it in the woods as my primary GPS. I don't expect it to do more than Garmin put in the manual, but since I'm on my fourth RMA I have a bit of a hard time with accepting the reliability claims.

I own both a back-up card and the car kit. And, unfortunately, have used both frequently. We let computer folks get off way too easy with the "just reset/reboot", "always make a back-up", "have an alternate power source" stuff. What other machines do we accept this type of requirements from? If we accept that these things are necessary, then we deserve what we get. If these things are required for the day-to-day operation of the iQue, they should come bundled with the machine. I have always bought bleeding edge stuff, but this is becoming a bridge too far.

Now - rant finished - I bought the iQue to use as a serious machine. I've used it in sorted places around the world and when it works, it's great. I just wish it worked more often.

kokopeli123

[CaptainSpalding]

Originally posted by paqtoque
With VERY SIMPLE measures, you make sure the thingy IS reliable.
- You carry a backup on an SD card (backup is that thing that your IT manager tells you to do also for your desktop and laptop, but that most people never do ...)

I have a weekly and a monthly backup regime for my desktop and laptop computers. I don't feel the need to do a daily backup because in 20 years of dealing with personal computers I have only needed a backup ONCE. With the iQue, my personal experience with the blasted thing compels me to backup whenever I put a new piece of information in it.


We should measure the reliability of this gadget based on it's purpose:
- As a PDA to manage contacts, task lists and appointments
- As a CAR navigation unit.
- To play MP3's
- And to run a lot of other software


Although some of us would use the GPS for other than "CAR navigation," even judging only by the narrowed criteria you set forth the iQue is still unreliable by the standards set by any other Palm PDA or Garmin GPS

There are several recent threads in which iQue owners have been let down, either on vacation or on business trips, by hard reset issues, or faulty GPS switches or whatever. Buddy, if you think your iQue is reliable, great. But let me tell you, my mileage has varied! Heck, even Reinbeau, one of the Q's staunchest defenders here on this board, has changed her signature line to "Still hoping for reliability from the iQue!"

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by CaptainSpalding

There are several recent threads in which iQue owners have been let down, either on vacation or on business trips, by hard reset issues, or faulty GPS switches or whatever. Buddy, if you think your iQue is reliable, great. But let me tell you, my mileage has varied! Heck, even Reinbeau, one of the Q's staunchest defenders here on this board, has changed her signature line to "Still hoping for reliability from the iQue!" That is true, and while I may be a 'staunch defender', I've also said from the beginning that reliability was lacking. I think Garmin has done an admirable job fixing things as they occur.

The difference between you and me, I think, is that I've also read the many, many posters who have had the iQue save them time and traffic trouble rerouting them, who are amazed at what this little box can do, and I tend to lean towards the bright side. Thing is, I think the iQue got caught in my purse, and the battery drained because of that, my sig change may have been premature. I may be changing it back soon barring any reoccurances. Yes, there still is that thread of mistrust, but it's fading...:cool:

[CaptainSpalding]

Thanks for clarifying your position, Ann. It was rude of me to drag you out into the sunlight to suit my own purposes.

:)

Spalding
____________________________
Still hoping someone will come out
with mapping software for the T3
with routing and voice guidance as
good as the iQue's. . . ; )

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by reinbeau
Thing is, I think the iQue got caught in my purse, and the battery drained because of that, my sig change may have been premature. I may be changing it back soon barring any reoccurances.

Yeah... you were fast to pull the trig on your sig.:D :D

[reinbeau]

Oh, I was angry, stressed from this wonderful holiday season and all ;) And Captain, no problem!

Now, it's time to sign off and apply myself to come serious cookie baking. You all play nice now so Santa will bring you toys for tomorrow morning!!:D

I am also politically incorrect.

Merry Christmas!

[paqtoque]

With regards to Hard Resets and Crashes, I gladly admit that I have been lucky so far (no unplanned Hard Reset, and only one screech).
Plenty of soft resets though, cuz I install about every piece of software I can get my hands on to try it out ... :D

With regards to backup procedures, as long as I am back and forth between my desktop, I don't even need one. Resyncing will do the trick. So there is no need for a "daily" backup, CaptainSpalding. But you bet that before I go on a business trip (a few days, or even vacation), I will make a backup and take it with me. Just in case. If I am not ready to accept that, I am not ready for the technology.

With regards to using the car kit, kokopeli, why are you using the word unfortunately in connection with the use of the car kit? The iQue is MADE to be used with the Car Kit, when navigating in car. Any other use is unsafe in my opinion (except maybe a passenger operating and holding it).

Well anyway, let's get to the essentials

Originally posted by reinbeau
You all play nice now so Santa will bring you toys for tomorrow morning!!:D

Merry Christmas!

:D Like a new iQue, that never crashes????? :D Or a PocketPC with Navigation System :P Like that new Toshiba with 640x480 Resolution :P:P Oops this is a Palm Community, this may not have been politically correct either ..... :eek:

Happy Cookiebaking, Ann ... too bad you can't post those here!!! Well too many cookies on my PC already!!!

And certainly Merry Christmas to you too! And to CaptainSpalding and kokopeli.

[kokopeli123]

Originally posted by paqtoque
With regards to using the car kit, kokopeli, why are you using the word unfortunately in connection with the use of the car kit? The iQue is MADE to be used with the Car Kit, when navigating in car. Any other use is unsafe in my opinion (except maybe a passenger operating and holding it).

I have no problem with the car mount (in fact most of us have used mounts other than the Garmin beanbag so we can avoid the safety issue of it becoming a missile in a wreck or quick stop) it's having to connect the iQue to an additional power supply while on a trip (in a car or boat or plane or on foot) that I wish wasn't the case. I'd much rather have it be an option (like with my cell phone) rather than a requirement.

kokopeli123

[eewanco]

I have no problem with the car mount (in fact most of us have used mounts other than the Garmin beanbag so we can avoid the safety issue of it becoming a missile in a wreck or quick stop)

Well, technically your beanbag will go forward under the window in the case of a stop or wreck, not backward at the passengers. So it won't really become a missle. Still, you admittedly don't want it moving around.

Eric

[apersson850]

Regarding Hotsync as the only means of backup:

Lately, I haven't had a single hard reset that I didn't order myself. But I've made several hard resets, since they are required required prior to upgrading the software in the iQue.
Then I've noticed that some databases are not restored simply by a Hotsync. One typical example is the SC-103PC (very good non-RPN calculator application). This calculator has a Currency mode, where it can convert between different currencies. The predefined currencies, and their corresponding rates, are very outdated. You can define your own, which I've done. But if I do a hard reset, install new firmware and then Hotsync back the data, these currency definitions aren't restored. But if I make a backup, to a SD card, with CardBkup, prior to upgrading, and then restore from the card, then I get it all back again.

[Holgado]

It happend to me wth Sheet to Go, when a hard resset happens, I loose all my data on it and can not be restored again.

HOLGADO

[dirkus]

As to the "option" of needing a power supply for the iQue, take a look at what it is designed to do and then take a look at the Garmin 2610 which doesn't even try to give you the option -- you have to hook it to an external power source!

[apersson850]

Originally posted by Holgado
It happend to me wth Sheet to Go, when a hard resset happens, I loose all my data on it and can not be restored again.

HOLGADO
Which data can't be restored? Sheet to Go data, or just any other data?