Yet another RMA - the iQue antenna

[Bobny]

Well, I was doing pretty well with my original iQue. No hard resets and just a few soft resets, a few screeches here and there but fairly good.

However, today when I flipped up the iQue GPS antenna -> nothing. No satellites, no bars - nothing. After awhile a message appears asking me if the iQue was indoors since no GPS signals were being received. I answered "No" and the iQue continued to search but I never saw a bar for a signal. After 1/2 hour I gave up and used the iQue as a map for getting where I was headed. At least it gave the directions with turns on how to proceed.

After getting home, I plugged in the Gilsson antenna and immediately saw the signal bars and got a 3D location in about 30 seconds. After getting the 3D fix, I then unpluged the Gilsson and tried again with just the iQue flip up antenna - nothing.

I would conclude that the flip up antenna connection to the GPS receiver internal to the iQue is shot.

Anybody have any other suggestions?

[Last Mrk]

Yep, it'll be much better when you get it back. ;)

[LeoG]

Same thing for me. I have RMA'ed mine and am waiting for it to come back. Garmin telephone tech support was quite helpful when I finally got thru, but the person replying to me by email was terrible. Same as you I had it working for several months and when the flip up antenna failed, the Gilsson one still worked fine. In spite of this the email tech support said that a hard reset would fix it - it did not and then he had the cheek to send me another email asking if I was trying to use it indoors !!

Anyway, I hope all will be well and STAY WELL when it gets back.

[Rod Bunker]

Mine had the identical problem, I am awaiting its return. The tech was so quick with the RMA it must be a common problem.

[AndreyMa]

Same is here...
But before that I had quite hard times with resets induced by static electricity - I was getting them at least twice a day, or even more; when I got to the car (and install iQue), got out of the car, just touched it (even in cradle). At that I did ground myself constantly - to cradle, to everything - before touching Ique (thanks to advices I got from this forum!); such a subtle unit...
It was (and is) a cool, dry weather out here.
Interestingly, many of my friends have PDAs (nobody of them has iQue though). They use them w/o any problems re static discharges!!
I was not a PDA user before I got iQue, I thought that those discharges is a necesary evil when you do with such devices. But one of my friends (an experienced PDA guy) said he never had such a problem, and even demoed me this with his unit.
He took off his woolen sweater (you know - this action charges you soo high that your hair are up!) and touch his PDA (in cradle) - there was a noticeably discharge, with a spark. Nothing bad happened with that unit! I continued working. Such thing would kill my iQue...

So I suspect this extreme sensibility of the iQue to the statics is a main culprit.
Anyway, before my internal antenna died I did not remember any significant static discharges. I just installed in in the car, and it did not work. This "are you indoors" message.

I sent it for RMA early this week. Nothing got from them yet.

[placido]

I think this is a very common problem with the antenna. Apprently, the quality control is poor (or bad parts used in the unit). My first Ique's antenna was dead on arrival. when I call Gramin, they told me to send it back.

[kokopeli123]

I'm about to do my third RMA for a failed internal antenna (this one on a replacement 'new' iQue that supposedly had the udpated board.) After going back and reading all the posts on failed internal antennas, I'm begining to wonder if there is some cause and effect between the failed internal antennas and having used an external antenna. Seems to be a common thread among the failed internal antenna RMAs.

I've been using a Gilsson since the day I got my first iQue in August. Internal antenna has failed on three different iQues, but the iQue still acquires with the Gilsson even though they wouldn't with the internal antenna.

Just a thought.

kokopeli123

[Bobny]

Although I bought the Gilsson antenna, I only used it at most 3 or 4 times and that was a month ago. I've always used the flip antenna only because it was more convenient and it worked good enough for me. Even in the canyons of NYC last weekend, It kept GPS tracking except when I found myself sandwiched between three buses (forming a box where I just saw a small patch of the sky).

Given the above and the fact that I haven't used the Gilsson antenna for the past month, I would say there's no correlation between use of the Gilsson antenna and my iQue flip up antenna fail.

Has anybody had a flip antenna fail and never used an external antenna? (even once?)

[stevevo]

Originally posted by kokopeli123
I'm about to do my third RMA for a failed internal antenna (this one on a replacement 'new' iQue that supposedly had the udpated board.) After going back and reading all the posts on failed internal antennas, I'm begining to wonder if there is some cause and effect between the failed internal antennas and having used an external antenna. Seems to be a common thread among the failed internal antenna RMAs.

I've been using a Gilsson since the day I got my first iQue in August. Internal antenna has failed on three different iQues, but the iQue still acquires with the Gilsson even though they wouldn't with the internal antenna.

Just a thought.

kokopeli123

Now you are scaring people. If you have a unit with a new board like they told me that I got then mine could end up going back for a 5th time. They told me they put a new board in mine and it does seem different than the others I have had in my possesion. I did turn on the WAAS and when I went back to the energy saving mode it took about 15 minutes to lock onto satalites and I thought that I would have to send it back but it finally started aquiring. This new unit really seems more stable.

Stevevo

[Bobny]

kokopeli123

On the three failed antennas, were they completely dead? Or just wouldn't acquire a fix?

On my fail, I saw no bars at all on the GPS status screen, even after 30 minutes and got the iQue question "Your GPS reception is very poor, are you indoors?"

[stevevo]

Yes it said that it was aquiring but no bars after 2 hours and the notice of are you indoors. There are two switches one is the hall effect switch for the flip out antenna and the other is hooked to the antenna to connect it to the unit. If no aquiation then you need to RMA it. I never had an external antenna but do now and that is how you can diagnois if the internal is dead. If the external works the internal should. Good luck.

Stevevo

[nparker13]

Same problem here, RMA'd it, and got my brand new unit yesterday

-nate

[kokopeli123]

Originally posted by Bobny
kokopeli123

On the three failed antennas, were they completely dead? Or just wouldn't acquire a fix?

On my fail, I saw no bars at all on the GPS status screen, even after 30 minutes and got the iQue question "Your GPS reception is very poor, are you indoors?"

Bobny,
All three wouldn't acquire any satellite fix from the internal antenna. I'd get the 'Acquiring Satellites' dialog but no signal strength bars (including goiong thru the 'Your GPS reception is very poor, are you indoors?'dialog) no matter how long the units stayed on. Other than that, they all worked fine.

kokopeli123

[kokopeli123]

Originally posted by stevevo
Yes it said that it was aquiring but no bars after 2 hours and the notice of are you indoors. There are two switches one is the hall effect switch for the flip out antenna and the other is hooked to the antenna to connect it to the unit. If no aquiation then you need to RMA it. I never had an external antenna but do now and that is how you can diagnois if the internal is dead. If the external works the internal should. Good luck.

Stevevo

Steveo,
The second switch you mention is my point of concern. The PNY transistor (the Hall Effect one) is working and putting the iQue into the "Acquiring Satellites" mode when the internal antenna is opened, but the second switch doesn't seem to be enabling the internal antenna. Since most of my use during the week is on an external antenna in a vehicle and I use the internal anyenna on the weekends when I go hiking or geocaching, perhaps the external antenna use is causing the second switch to hang or be disabled?

Anyone know the switch type of the second switch that toggles between internal and external antennas? (Is it another PNY transistor?)

kokopeli123

[kokopeli123]

Originally posted by Bobny
Has anybody had a flip antenna fail and never used an external antenna? (even once?)

Great question and much more to the point.

kokopeli123

[dshea]

Mine just failed (strangely and probably just coincidentally right after the Release 2 Patch 1 install). I never used an external antenna either.

[nparker13]

same here, mine just never got a signal one day, and ive never used an ext. antenna

-nate

[kokopeli123]

Just RMAed mine for my third (yes 3rd!) failed internal antenna (on three different iQues no less.) Fourth (4th) total RMA - first one was for a failed digitizer.

Tech said that they were having a problem with a chip on the board and after it was replaced, there shouldn't be any more problems. He didn't have an answer when I told him that the 'new' iQue they sent me after the last failed antenna already had the new board in it.

I mentioned the possibility of the problem being caused by the use of an external antenna making the second switch hang, and he said that it shouldn't cause that problem nor had he ever heard of external antennas causing any problems at all.

A Palm T3 with a bluetooth GPS is starting to look good ...

kokopeli123

[galambo]

Well this is my 2nd RMA. (the first for the charging pin broken another common problem) and not getting a signal.

they said it was a common p[roblem (my guess static charge)

love the product... wish they would get better QA.

it is fustrating

[AndreyMa]

Got a replacement unit today, just placed it in cradle for charging.
Previous one - dead flip antenna. Have not checked the new one yet.
The letter says they exchanged unit with "newly overhauled unit",
the # 9023XXXX. This is far from newest ones. Anyway, hope this one will be doing good...
In opposite to cases I read here when they send whole new box, they sent me just a unit (no stilus, no antenna cover cap even) what I think is fair.

Interestingly, they sent it that way that my signature was not required on receiving (?) - the box with ~$500 device was just left in appartment building near post bins...

Andrey

[LeoG]

Same thing. Just got mine back after flip antenna failure. Also got a "not so new" refurbished unit with same range serial number. I think that they are now getting so many of these units back that they have a conveyor system. ie. a broken one comes in and goes into repair but is immediately replaced by a repaired one which has just come off the repair conveyor.

Not sure if this is "fair" or not. The refurbished unit appears to have a new screen (no sign of any scratches or use). However, after 2 days have already had one modem screech and several resets and lockups.

Also noticed that the flip up antenna opens and moves much more loosely than my original iQue - that's good, but it does not ratchet into place at a particular angle as well as the original one. Have other folks with replacement machines noticed this or did I just get a loose one ?

[Harleybear]

Great question and much more to the point. Originally asked by kokopeli123

I owned my iQue for less than 24 hrs and never used the external antenna and it is on its way back for RMA. I tried accessing the sats 5 - 7 times from my home in a rural area about 60 miles north of NYC. At first - nada. Then learned from board to upgarde software - I did. Got 3D acquisiton within 15 minutes. Tried agin next day - nada. Tired from NJ - nada. Tired tried tried - nada. Now we will see what happens when I get the new one.

Please tell this newbie more about the hard rest issues and by the way, what is screeching?

Also - where can I download some FREE awesome games e.g., solitaire, etc.

[kokopeli123]

Originally posted by Harleybear
Please tell this newbie more about the hard rest issues and by the way, what is screeching?

Also - where can I download some FREE awesome games e.g., solitaire, etc.

A hard reset is where the memory of the iQue is wiped clean of everything except the base operating system and programs. You lose all the data and programs you have loaded on the machine. This can hapen intentionaly (reset pin while holding down the power button) or unintentionally all by itself. The complaints on the board about hard resets are the unintentional type caused by static electricity or who knows what. Release 2 seems to have modified the hard reset tendency to soft resets. With a soft reset the iQue just 'reboots' itself and you don't lose any data or installed programs.

Screeching is when the iQue starts making a loud sound like a fax or modem trying to connect. It also happens unintentionally all by itself. You have to do a reset to make it stop. Release 2 was also supposed to fix this.

Try http://www.freewarepalm.com/ for Palm freeware., including games

kokopeli123

[Harleybear]

kokopeli123

Thanks for the explanation!

and greetings from one who profoundly understands "Kokopeli" as we have a place in Sedona, AZ!!!!

[mark-west]

Originally posted by kokopeli123
Great question and much more to the point.

kokopeli123
Just got my unit and used the GPS 3 times with the internal antenna (about 6 hours total). I upgraded to the latest software but didn't use the GPS for three days (but used the Palm lots), when I went to use it yesterday it just shows the "acquire" screen and occasionally asks if I am indoors. I dug out my Gamin external antenna (which I hadn't used before on the 3600) and hooked it up - it acquires almost immediately. That was the first time I have used the external antenna or even removed the rubber plug in the socket so I would say that the external antenna has nothing to do with the internal antenna failure (if it has actually failed). I am currently waiting for Garmin's response. This is my fourth Garmin GPS and my third Palm device and in one weeks use I have had more resets and "funny" problems with this unit than I have had with all the others combined (over three years of use each for most of them). One of the GPS's (an eTrex Legend) and a Palm IIIxe have been to Inuvik NWT by road on a motorcycle so they have not been "babied".

[mark-west]

Originally posted by dshea
Mine just failed (strangely and probably just coincidentally right after the Release 2 Patch 1 install). I never used an external antenna either.

By strange coincidence that is when my unit failed as well.

[Rod Bunker]

Yesterday I received my RMA unit back after a failed antenna. On receipt it worked great, today when I took it for a ride it wouldn't acquire satellites. After 20 minutes I did a soft reset and than it acquired within 30 seconds. Worked fine for the next 45 minutes of driving.

I never used an external antenna. The replaced iQue was updated for all upgrades andd patches.

Tomorrow I will test again.

[serf]

Internal antenna switch failed, RMA's & back in less than 1 week. Never had used external antenna.

Unit came back with "recent finds" all from Minn.,/St. Paul area - I'm in Chicago & never "found" there. Fiand anything unexpected on your returned unit?

[Rod Bunker]

Mine RMA had no evidence of any prior data. Appears to be a new machine(newer serial number). Had all latest upgrades and patches. Used GPS extensively today. Worked great but weak satellite signals

[Atlrodeopup]

I had to RMA (while travelling no doubt - go figure) for the antennae problem.

Garmin was great to me. I got a new unit next day. I asked if it would have the newer board and lastest fw - he said yes.

Will have to check. I know there is a post on how to check that, let me go off and find that.

STILL LOVE this thing though... use it religiously still

[Rod Bunker]

If you discover how to check if you have new board, please post the instructions. I would like to check.

[Rod Bunker]

My third IQ arrived today from the land of OZ. It is a older serial number. My first two failed by not acquiring satellites. On arrival I checked this one and it acquired. I loaded all my data and 4 hours later went out to test it again. AND IT AGAIN FAILED. They supposedly changed out a chip.

This was an older unit that was previously used in Maryland. If anyone out there RMA'd theirs from Baltimore, it got fixed, sent to Texas to die again. We ought to track these failures by serial #. This one was 90232192.

This one never made it to the car.

Monday it will go back.

[Curious Cat]

Rod,

I'm sorry to hear you've had so much trouble! Is there anything you can think of that's unique to your situation? I'm starting to think you might be radioactive. :) I'd tell them that you want a brand new one this time. Hope you get it resolved soon.

[Rod Bunker]

In spite of my three failures, I love the machine. I travel all over the Mid-west with my job and I have always used a Handspring Prism to manage my clients and a Garmin GPS III+ to find them.

The IQ will replace both if I can make them work. I love the find and search capability.

Where I live is dry and 2003 was the driest year since 1917. So we have low humidity this time of year. I try to be very careful about static by grounding myself at every oppurtunity, espicially before handling my Q.

I am convinced Static is the culprit although radioactivity is always possible.

Garmin MUST find a permanent solution for the Q to be viable nationwide.

[Al from CT]

Be Brave Send it to them. Its like going to the dentist -- painful but better when finished.

Mine lost antenna acquisition on 12/22. Finallly got an RMA on 12/26 [ Call early -- 8 a.m cst-- as several members of this forum suggested] Sent express mail on 12/26. In Kansas on 12/27. Recieved at Garmin on 12/28. Replaced with a remanufactured unit and shipped on 12/31. Recieved here 1/2/04 11:30 a.m. So far works fine.

I hope they have fixed[ found the root cause and made it go away] this problem. I'm afraid Garmin is guilty of "Customer engineering" where in the validition of the design and durability is performed by the people who buy the product.:(

[placido]

Rod,

From the replies from this thread, it seems that the internal antenna or any mechanism associated with the internal antenna is the problem. Is your problem with the internal antenna ? Have you try external antenna ?

From the information I have seen so far from the IQUE forum, the ique seems to work without much problem as a Palm device. As far as GPS is concern, most of the problem seems to be assiciated with the internal antenna (hardware). Do you think this is correct ?

[Rod Bunker]

I agree that it is an internal antenna problem. I have ordered an external antenna. I am not sure I want to carry another thing when I leave town on business though. They need to fix the problem. When I talked to Garmin yesterday I didn't feel that they have solved the problem yet. I have had 3 IQues in three weeks.

Those of us with high static caused by the low humidity continue to have problems.

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by Al from CT
I hope they have fixed[ found the root cause and made it go away] this problem. I'm afraid Garmin is guilty of "Customer engineering" where in the validition of the design and durability is performed by the people who buy the product.:(

Unfortunately this may be a "truism" however, this was a totally new untried device and merging of technology. Anyone buying it thinking that it would be without some issues should be aware of the pitfalls of "new" technology. This is new technology.

Therefore, anyone reading these threads and posts be warned and glad at the same time - The vast majority of people, at least on this forum, have stated that Garmin is responsive.

Not to get to far off topic but it does apply: I've been on the phone with 8 different people from Cingular over the last 4 days and still do not have cellular service even though my numbers have been transported. The two phones are "searching for network" and no one has yet stated "when" I will definitely have service. BTW - the 4 days is a total of 9 hours of calls some as much as 2.5 hours of on hold.

I think Garmin's C.S. is much better than that! :)

[Dawgs]

Mine is going back on Monday. I guess now that it is getting winter time there will be a lot more static problems with the units.

Do you think that Garmin will do some kind of mass recall on the units when they finally figure out what the problem is? Or just have everyone send in piecemeal when the units break because of this problem?

It is disturbing that people are having multiple failures for the same problem. If this was a car the lemon law would be in effect.

[AndreyMa]

Originally posted by Dawgs
Do you think that Garmin will do some kind of mass recall on the units when they finally figure out what the problem is

I think they're actually doing something like part of mass recall, at least they respond almost immediately when you complain about died (internal) antenna (most probably - because of statics).

It looks like that antenna transistor is (was?) most sensitive to statics discharges, what makes such a failed unit to be quite eligible to RMA.
However this is not the only part that is sensitive to statics, looks like whole unit was quite sensitive to it too.
Before the internal antenna died mine unit was suffering very much of staticts - with very various appearances, you just touch
it, you put it in auto cradle, you take it back, etc. Very annoying.

Interestingly, I first used my iQue in dry areas Arizona, CO, UT,
that was awesome!!! and I did not have static probelms too much
that time!
However when I returned to MA, these problems became very persistive, finally leading to antenna crash.

Static discharges fenomenon - this is not something discovered
recently.
Most of the consumer devices like iQue do have pretty descent protection. I think GARMIN just missed this part or they failed to
address it during development of the new model.

Anyway it does look like they did learn this subject!
(btw, with pretty help of us, customers....)
They (customer support) say quite adequate words about static discharges, when you complain about it.
If the internal antenna died they exchange the unit immediately, paying for shipping back and forth.

That's good, but I still feel myself pretty much as Beta tester, or even their staff tester (the difference, of course is that they don't pay me money for testing the unit, instead it was me who paid for that :-(

Anyway, I got the replacement unit.
They shipped it pretty fast.
I sent it for RMA a week before Christmas, and I did have big plans for Christmas (which included my iQue too!!!).
And, - I got it before holidays! This is really very much appreciated!
The replacement unit looks quite normal, it works.
It not a new unit, this is a refurbrished one (the # is not a latest one).

Encouraging - I have got few statics discharge with new unit,
and it did not freeze!! So far it is much more stable than that previous one!
This is really noticeable. I held kind of journal few weeks before my first unit died. I found that I had static problems (unit freeze after touching it) every day, even several times a day!
I have not had an instance with this refurbrished unit during two weeks, at that there were few days of cold and dry. I do hope they learned to fix it!
(screeches sure happen.... three times during couple weeks..)

So actually I'm quite happy with this new/old unit.
The only thing that annoying me this time is that the screen film
(that coordinate-sensitive cover) is very loose, at least it is much more looser than that was on my previous unit. Sometimes, it is kind of buble. The graphity recognition is good, though.

Andrey

[Derodeo]

> (screeches sure happen.... three times during couple weeks..)

So I take it then that Garmin still has not managed a solution to the "modem" screeching, even with newly repaired units? Thus far, the infamous screech has been the only real problem I've encountered with my iQue. Its only happened maybe a half dozen times in 6 weeks but it's got a habit of happening at the most embarrassing times...

[AndreyMa]

Originally posted by Derodeo
> (screeches sure happen.... three times during couple weeks..)
Its only happened maybe a half dozen times in 6 weeks but it's got a habit of happening at the most embarrassing times...

Sure it is a well known decree of nature...

I got one, the very hard screech, when I was pretty succesfully showing the operation of the iQue to my friend, who btw was quite sceptic about combined GPS/PDA functionality.

First half of the hour he was really impressed, then it started screeching - right on the freeway.

I had the sound routed through the car audio, we enjoyed the (mp3) Pink Floyd gently interrupted by Betty leading us to the trial destination... The screech was terrible... We had to wait for
a proper pull-out place, then I spent few minutes to heal it (several soft resets), then it started cycling on "off-route" messages - everything was spoiled...

I have never experienced something like that driving alone!
a decree of nature...

Andrey

[audscott]

Many have said it, but I think Murphy (Murphy's Law) is best known.....Murphy's Law reads, "Whatever can go wrong
will go wrong".

[AndersLj]

As one real pessimist said:

"Murphy was an optimist".

[iDaze]

Having the same problem here. After 8 months of usage the internal GPS antenna just gave up. I have contacted Garmin and hoping for an RMA.

[iDaze]

I just received a replacement for my defective iQue: A whole new iQue 3600 and best of all: The newest City Select Europe. Thank you Garmin :)