Qwerty-azerty

[jazzman62]

Hello

I don't own (yet?) a Netbook Pro because of its prohibitive price tag - but I was wondering anyway:
is it possible to easily re-configure the keyboard mapping (preferably 'on the fly') so as to switch between QWERTY and AZERTY layout? (useful feature for translating and touch-typing).

Many thanks

PS: What's the cheapest price one can expect to get a Netbook Pro for these days?

[mauritron]

Theres one on ebay at the moment 2777436205
Not mine I just came across it when I was searching for a Netbook (not pro, I already have one) for myself.

[jazzman62]

Wow! Odd that a brand-new Netbook Pro should go for auction already? I wonder why.
I wanted a Netbook Pro, but was put off by its prohibitive price, and went for a second-hand Netbook instead.
If I find a Netbook Pro, I'll happily sell you my Netbook - but to be fair, I'm not 100% sure it is worth changing Netbook.

[mauritron]

I purchased a Pro early December to evaluate and to be honest I am not impressed with it.
Very little software is compatible unless you know how to change it to fit.
I've only managed to get 1 modem to work with it and that was not very reliable.
The reset button has been put on the front for a reason - it's constantly in use.
I am going to keep evaluating it until later this month and if it does not come up to scratch I will ebay it and cut my losses.
I am a keen psion collector and the Netbook is the one machine I still have to get. It must be a proper one though not an upgraded 7 or Malaybook.
I originally wanted a Pro to use with GPS but so far not found a compatible GPS unit, despite being told by the sellers that they should work.
Will probably try and use my 7book as a GPS unit when I have found a suitable unit for it.

[jazzman62]

That's very interesting - I am very curious to see how the Netbook Pro compare to the 'old' Netbook. The price tag being quite high, I had high hope for it, and still am tempted , particularly for ease of data transfer with Windows applications which I have to use at work.

In the meantime, I recently bought a fully fledged Netbook, added 32Mb RAM to it, a Psion GoldCard LAN/Modem, and it works OK.
To be fair, I am having trouble with EPOC, but I hope to sort it out by loading the very latest OS image which I downloaded this morning.

So you say the Pro crashes a lot? Has little application to offer? I would have thought WinCE would have an impressive software library to pick from, and would link-up to Windows PC like a dream?

[ktupper]

I have all the software I need on it. (Spreadsheet [SpreadCE], WordProcessor [TextMaker], Remote Desktop, IE, MSN Messenger, Windows Media Player, Pocket MVP, ListPro, eWallet, On-Schedule)

It syncs up with my Desktop without problems. My only complaint there is it only syncs to the internal memory. I'd like it to sync the 5GB PCMIA card. I store lots of music, documents, and spreadsheets on that.

Also, my 3 cards all worked immediately without any trouble at all. They are a CF2031 [SprintPCS Web Connection], WLAN Card [D-Link], and 5GB PCMIA Card [Kingston].

I haven't had to restart except for a couple of times when I tried installing pocket pc software on it.

I absolutley love the form factor and the instant on. I can be anywhere that I have cell phone access and in a minute I'm on the Web and connecting to any of my servers I need to manage or my office desktop along with browse Web. Of course I can use all the other software I have installed at any time too.

- Kevin :D

[jazzman62]

Sounds like you're having an better Netbook Pro experience than Mauritron who often needs to reset the system?
So you would recommend the Netbook Pro? Even to replace the legendary Netbook and despite the high price-tag?

[ktupper]

I have never seen or used a Netbook so I don't know how to compare it to that. I've never used EPOC OS either.

I wanted something like a PPC that had much more screen real estate and a keyboard. This works great for me. It's a business tool. For someone that wants a Web appliance and has a cell modem I think it's a great device. At retail, it is a bit pricey.

If they ever want to reach the consumer market they need to get below $1,000...probably to a $750 price point.

[jazzman62]

I couldn't agree more.
I fell back on a second-hand Netbook because the 1600 Euro price tag is just silly.
If I ever save up enough (or if the price goes down), I still would like to make sure this Netbook is up to its promises.
I hear that WinCE is quite flaky, and knowing the weaknesses of the Window OS family, I'm willing to suspect so.
Mind you, EPOC is said to be rock solid, but my Netbook is playing up quite a bit, so...

[mauritron]

A lot of my problems may be down to me.
I prefer to use computers, not program them.

I've managed to get the Netgear MA701 CF Wireless Card to work and can access the net via my broadband hub no problem.

I wanted to use it to surf while totally mobile using the Vodafone Mobile Connect Card (Red). So far have had no luck despite them pointing me in the direction of the site to download the drivers.

Anyone know of a GPRS system which works with it.
So far I can only surf via the Wlan or Modem but not totally Mobile from the middle of nowhere.

[vitualis]

Perhaps it should be noted that the Netbook Pro is not an upgraded version of the Netbook as such. It is a whole different beast. If you were a handheld PC enthusiast (like me), then the H/PC should be a dream to use -- especially as obvious from ktupper, you already know all the good software to use.

As the Netbook Pro runs Windows CE.NET 4.2, it is actually in a unique position as you can probably run most H/PC software on it (that's compiled for ARM) as well as being able to "hack" PocketPC software (including Windows Mobile 2003) to run too. However, as it is still new in the Windows CE world, it probably isn't so good if you don't know what you are doing.

@ ktupper -- as for folder synch... I think there are some third party H/PC apps that can do what you want... There is a free (well unrestricted shareware) program here that can sort of do what you want: http://www2r.biglobe.ne.jp/~tascal/download/hpc/tfs_e.htm

... except it doesn't work through Activesync (it is on the machine itself only) and it only syncs one way (from source to destination). It is good to use it for backing up if you only add/change/modify files on the device itself and not on the PC (BTW, to back up onto the PC you obviously need a shared folder on Windows and then use the UNC address).

Regards.

[vitualis]

Originally posted by mauritron
A lot of my problems may be down to me.
I prefer to use computers, not program them.

I've managed to get the Netgear MA701 CF Wireless Card to work and can access the net via my broadband hub no problem.

I wanted to use it to surf while totally mobile using the Vodafone Mobile Connect Card (Red). So far have had no luck despite them pointing me in the direction of the site to download the drivers.

Anyone know of a GPRS system which works with it.
So far I can only surf via the Wlan or Modem but not totally Mobile from the middle of nowhere.

I don't know a GPRS card (I don't use one), but perhaps something like the Zupera Smartbook would be more what you are after.

It is similar to the NB Pro in many ways (runs Windows CE.Net 4.1, 800x480 screen, etc.) except that it has an in-built GSM/GPRS modem (you only need to supply a SIM card).

You can use the device as a mobile phone as well.

It is significantly cheaper than the NB Pro... but has some disadvantages which will be obvious if you actually look into it. A Finnish? company has also OEMed the device and market it as the Coxion Webbook.

BTW, if you have any thoughts about selling your device, contact me! Psion is basically a no-show in Australia so nobody stocks them ... <gripe>except Expansys who is completely screwing us on the price (it is expensive to begin with but they also obviously take a very consumer unfavourable position on the exchange rate + other taxes --- which can be voided if they just did international sales rather than "importing" and then selling -- basically, I can get it cheaper by flying to NZ and buying it!) :-( </gripe>

Regards.

[jazzman62]

Michael - you seem quite clued-up on the Netbook Pro and Win CE. Do you know if there is an answer to my QWERTY-AZERTY keyboard dilema (see very first message of this post)?

[mauritron]

Michael - Thanks for that

The reason I chose the Pro was the form factor - I just love the 7 and Netbook and assumed the Pro would be straightforward to use just like them.

I currently use a sub notebook for GPRS. I got it from Staples. It's a tiny PC but great for the purpose except for battery life of just about an hour. (plus it gets hot in use, is noisy, not built to last etc, all the minus points which are not applicable to the Psion).

Will look up your suggestions.

[vitualis]

Originally posted by jazzman62
Michael - you seem quite clued-up on the Netbook Pro and Win CE. Do you know if there is an answer to my QWERTY-AZERTY keyboard dilema (see very first message of this post)?

I don't own a NB Pro but I'm very interested in it and I've reseached it a lot (and spoken to several people on the net who own one). I've owned several Handheld PC form factor Windows CE devices and still use two (Jornada 820 and Jornada 720... though I've given the 720 to my dad).

As for what you want... Google came up with the following: http://www.artsoft.ru/eng/artskhpc.htm

I personally don't know if it works well but it seems to do what you want. I suggest that you give it a go!

You'll be looking for the Windows CE 2.11/3.0 and above versions.

Regards.

[vitualis]

Originally posted by mauritron
Michael - Thanks for that

The reason I chose the Pro was the form factor - I just love the 7 and Netbook and assumed the Pro would be straightforward to use just like them.

I currently use a sub notebook for GPRS. I got it from Staples. It's a tiny PC but great for the purpose except for battery life of just about an hour. (plus it gets hot in use, is noisy, not built to last etc, all the minus points which are not applicable to the Psion).

Will look up your suggestions.

As before, if you are thinking of selling, talk to me! ;-)

Regards.

[jazzman62]

Sounds like just the thing I need!
Well, I don't need it until I can shell out for a NB Pro (if I ever do), but at least, that's one more reason to consider buying one eventually.
I found a similar freeware to do the same thing on EPOC for my Nebook, but couldn't get it to work...

[mauritron]

Michael
Ok will let you know if and when
Have you seen the one going on ebay

Regarding your alternatives
Do you have any knowledge of it.
ie
Battery Life
Spare Battery availability
Build Quality.
All 3 must at least match the Psion before I will consider it.

[vitualis]

Originally posted by mauritron
Michael
Ok will let you know if and when
Have you seen the one going on ebay

Yes... only will post to UK... :-(

Regarding your alternatives
Do you have any knowledge of it.
ie
Battery Life
Spare Battery availability
Build Quality.
All 3 must at least match the Psion before I will consider it.

The Zupera comes in the Windows CE.NET and a WindowsXP (uses a Transmeta Crusoe processor) versions. The Windows CE.NET version is the only one I have seen for sale...

Info from Zupera's site: http://www.smartbook.com.cn/mobile.htm

The Zupera for sale in the UK: http://www.peripheralcorner.co.uk/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/37/products_id/227

And from Expansys: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=107767

The the "Coxion Webbook": http://coxion.com/tuotteet/webbook.html

As you can see, surprisingly "cheap" when compared to the NB Pro (which is why Psion pisses me off with its price -- the Smartbook is HALF the cost!) ... even cheaper in the UK if you buy it with a "plan".

So a 6 hour battery life (a little bit less than NB Pro) and 2 hours with GPRS on. Decent, but not great... but then GPRS sucks power... It is hard to know how the the NB Pro would last with a GPRS card.

Of course, an option would be to use a Mobile Phone as a GPRS modem and use IRDA to connect to the Windows CE device!

Spare battery availability may be a problem, though as you have UK resellers, you may be able to source them. No different from getting NB Pro batteries I think. The trick may be to buy them EARLY before you need it!

Build quality is hard to determine. The NB Pro LOOKS swish while the Zupera Smartbook doesn't look half as cool but you really need more than pictures to know.

The main advantages of the Zupera Webbook over the NB Pro is:
- PRICE!
- inbuilt GSM/GPRS modem --> which also allows voice calls, SMS, MMS
- inbuilt ethernet socket
- inbuilt video out socket

The main advantages of the NB Pro over the Zupera Webbook is:
- processor (Intel X-Scale 400 MHz processor over Intel StrongArm SA-1110 206 MHz processor)
- screen (full SVGA 800x600 over 800x480)
- expansion (CF, PC Card, SD over only CF)
- keyboard
- LOOKS!

Best regards.

[mauritron]

Would the Pro work with a Nokia 6310i.

My vodafone mobile connect card contract expires soon and rather than trying to get it to work with the pro use the GPRS built into the 6310i instead.

comparing your specs I still think the Psion has it for me its just that I can't get to grips with Win CE yet.
That would still be a problem if I went to the Zupera

[vitualis]

Have a look at: http://www.hpcfactor.com/support/cesd/h/0005.asp

It should work as a GSM modem. With my Nokia (8310), using GPRS involves simply putting in a specific dial number which should be available from your carrier. I don't have GPRS available on my plan though... so I don't know if it works (though there are "ho tos" on my carrier's website so I presume it does.

GSM modem works ok with the 8310.

Regards.

[vitualis]

Originally posted by ktupper
It syncs up with my Desktop without problems. My only complaint there is it only syncs to the internal memory. I'd like it to sync the 5GB PCMIA card. I store lots of music, documents, and spreadsheets on that.

Yes, Microsoft short-sightedness...

However, I've just found a third-party solution called "MightySync".

It does EXACTLY what you want it to do -- it can can sync any file or folder on your Handheld PC to any file or folder on your PC.

I've just downloaded it and started using it... it works very well indeed!

http://www.mydocsunlimited.com/html/mightysync.html

You can buy it for $US5.95 or download a 15-day trial from Handango: https://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?productType=2&zsortParams=true&platformId=2&siteId=1&productId=32175&sectionId=0&catalog=1&authorId=110155

Best regards.

[jazzman62]

Virtualis,
Can one touch-type on the Zupera's keyboard?

[spellbound]

On the psion website there is a compatibility list for GSM cards. I called vodafone tech support and their card (in ireland anyway) is a rebranded seirra wireless aircard which is on the list !!

Check with Vodafone why it's not working on your device !

http://www.psionteklogix.com/assets/downloadable/NETBOOK_PRO_Compatability.pdf

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by mauritron
Would the Pro work with a Nokia 6310i. I would think so. I've used a 6310i via GPRS with both my netBook Classic and a Windows XP laptop - can't see any reason why the Netbook Pro shouldn't be able to do the same.

Julie

[netBookBabe]

Also, should be able to use the 6310i via Bluetooth with the Netbook Pro!

Julie

[hg71]

You can utilize a num lock feature. As for price you will soon be able to purchase through Mobile Planet online (best bet)

[vitualis]

Originally posted by jazzman62
Virtualis,
Can one touch-type on the Zupera's keyboard?

I don't know. I suggest that you have a look at the dimensions on the unit. From looking at the picture (with the person's hands) I would think probably not (it looks like about the same size as the J720 keyboard --> 75-80% full size -- which I don't think is touchtypable).

Regards.

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by ktupper
I wanted something like a PPC that had much more screen real estate and a keyboard. This works great for me. It's a business tool. But now you're selling it, Kevin? I don't mean to pry, but curious to know the reason, if you care to say.

Julie

[ktupper]

Originally posted by netBookBabe
But now you're selling it, Kevin? I don't mean to pry, but curious to know the reason, if you care to say.

Julie

Sure, I'd be happy too, at least as much as I'm allowed.

My company is looking at a "CRM Type" application for a particular vertical market. The NBP was going to be the main tool for this. We were to use the NBP as a Web Terminal with a cell modem and run our Web application and / or a WinCE smart client.

Given some of the improvements we're seeing in convergence in the cell phone market and PDA maret and considering the cost of those verses the NBP, it looks like a better R&D investment to go that direction. We sacrifice on usability of the application because of the significant loss of screen real-estate but the CBA improves dramatically when we take $600 to $800 off the per unit cost.

That said, I need to be using what I hope to be selling.

- Kevin