Bluetooth enable GPS

[placido]

Does any on know whether Garmin is working on a bluetooth enabled GSP.

If they are, that will allow one the freedom to choose the PDA or cell/pda device.

Has anyone check out the new Hangspring Treo600. It is a PDA/cell phone running Palm 5.2. It comes with 32M of memory. It has all the functionality of a Palm pda (address book etc.). It also has a integrated key board, and VGA qaulity cameras. Because it is a cell phone, You can use it for e-mail etc. Best of all, it has an SDIO. One can buy a bluetooth SDIO card to communicate with a bluetooth GPS.

I hope Garmin is working on a bluetooth GPS.

[jonasolof]

Why would you need Garmin to make one? There are already plenty. The Fortuna Clip on is interesting, high sensitivity. Have a look at www.gpspassion.com they have reviews and the lot.

[placido]

Jonas,

Thanks for the information.

It looks pretty inexpensive (for $229.00). I wonder the software they supply (mapping software etc) is comparable to Garmin's.

One of Garmin's strength in GPS is their GPS mapping software. I read there are other quite a few other companies that sell wireless GPS devices that can be used with PDA's. The problem is that while the hardware is OK, but comes with terrible software.

I think it would be great if Garmin will (or plan) to make a bluetooth enabled GPS receiver. In addition, I can FREE to choose the PDA (or cellphone combination) that I like.

[jonasolof]

I don't know of any platform other than Garmin's that you can run garmin maps etc. on. But you can use Fugawi, teleatlas vector road maps, pathaway and others. And the bluetooth receivers are totally independent of the mapping software used. And I don't know of any garmin device that would receive a bluetooth gps input, garmin or otherwhise. So it is useless to pursue the topic here.

[nparker13]

As most of you will probably agree, there is no other software like Garmin's Que maps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but i dont think that there is any other software that can route, re-route, voice guide, contain pre programmed POIs w/ address and phone, or do half the features garmins does....so those BT GPS devices aren't really worth it for auto navigation because they are so limited.

-nate

[CaptainSpalding]

Originally posted by nparker13
As most of you will probably agree, there is no other software like Garmin's Que maps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but i dont think that there is any other software that can route, re-route, voice guide, contain pre programmed POIs w/ address and phone, or do half the features garmins does....so those BT GPS devices aren't really worth it for auto navigation because they are so limited.

-nate

On Jonas' recommendation a few posts earlier in this thread, I went to GPSPassion.com, where I found the following:

2004 is starting with a bang * for the PalmOS platform with the announcement by Navman of the Navman 4460 for PalmOS 5 devices!

The Navman 4460 systems includes the Navman One Bluetooth GPS, SmartST v2, the navigation software included with the PocketPC bundles in its v1, as well as a car mount.

On offer:
- Route calculation and rerouting
- Vocal guidance
- Coverage for North America including Canada and Hawai
- Large POI database

See the page here:
http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/news.asp?id=254

It would be pretty awesome to have a Palm device that could provide all the navigational features of the iQue, but retain the compatibility and durability that Palm's higher end units have a reputation for.

As a geocacher, I have followed the bluetooth GPS market closely looking for a solution which makes up for the shortcomings of the iQue. It's just a few months away now, I think.
:D :D :D :D

[placido]

I read some review about navman (I think it is amazon.com or cnet). Review isnt that great. May be they have a new version.
Actually I check out several bluetooth GPS before I bought my Ique last year. The reason that I did not go with bluetooth GPS at that time is because most review seems to indicate the hardware (GPS receivers) is comparable to that of the Ique, but the mapping software is not. On the other hand, most review I read about Ique gave it very high marks on the mapping software, Garmin is well know for the navigation system. That is why I bought the Ique. In addition, the price is a bit lower.

The only other review that I read that I thought may be comparable to the Ique's mapping function is the Co-pilot live. If you are on the road, and has access to the web through your handheld, this device will even let youo down load maps from certain web site. It is listed at about $350.00. If you buy a PDA (that is comparable with Ique's, 32M etc) and a bluetooth SDIO card, I estimate that will cost about another $350.00. So this combination is more than the Ique ( $500 for Ique vs about $700.00). The other problem is that if I use the SDIO slot, then I wont have place to store detailed map (unless the PDA has multiple sd slots: which means it may cost even more). I was not about to shell out $700.00 for a product that I dont know enough of. Also, I cannot find more detailed review about really how good is Co-Pilot's mapping software.

My point in this thread is that, as time goes, we will see more and more of these bluetooth GPS devices in the market. Mapping software will improve. The advantage of bluetooth device is that it let you to choose the pda or pda/cell phone/cameras you like. I am sure that Garmin can easily manufacuture such device. It is a market that Garmin should explore.

[CaptainSpalding]

Originally posted by placido
I read some review about navman (I think it is amazon.com or cnet). Review isnt that great. May be they have a new version.

Actually I check out several bluetooth GPS before I bought my Ique last year. The reason that I did not go with bluetooth GPS at that time is because most review seems to indicate the hardware (GPS receivers) is comparable to that of the Ique, but the mapping software is not. On the other hand, most review I read about Ique gave it very high marks on the mapping software, Garmin is well know for the navigation system. That is why I bought the Ique. In addition, the price is a bit lower.

The only other review that I read that I thought may be comparable to the Ique's mapping function is the Co-pilot live. If you are on the road, and has access to the web through your handheld, this device will even let youo down load maps from certain web site. It is listed at about $350.00. If you buy a PDA (that is comparable with Ique's, 32M etc) and a bluetooth SDIO card, I estimate that will cost about another $350.00. So this combination is more than the Ique ( $500 for Ique vs about $700.00). The other problem is that if I use the SDIO slot, then I wont have place to store detailed map (unless the PDA has multiple sd slots: which means it may cost even more). I was not about to shell out $700.00 for a product that I dont know enough of. Also, I cannot find more detailed review about really how good is Co-Pilot's mapping software.

My point in this thread is that, as time goes, we will see more and more of these bluetooth GPS devices in the market. Mapping software will improve. The advantage of bluetooth device is that it let you to choose the pda or pda/cell phone/cameras you like. I am sure that Garmin can easily manufacuture such device. It is a market that Garmin should explore.

It won't be long before Garmin's current advantage with mapping software is moot. And while it seems to be the least expensive option at first, in the long term that may not be so when compared to the PDA/bluetooth GPS combination.

The central issue here is standards and compatibility. Sherman, set the way-back machine ahead to January 2006. All of our iQues are looking a little long in the tooth and we're eagerly awaiting any tech news from CES. Garmin announces its new iQue 5600, which sports 64 MB of on board memory and a faster processor. We all rush to pre-order for the announced April delivery, knowing deep down it will be August until we actually see one. Some of us with early-adopter-itis will be replacing our iQue 4600s, just a year old and with not enough wear on the screen to warrant the $12 we spent on screen protectors.

I stand outside my door wringing my hands waiting for the UPS guy to bring the new Q - and at last it's here! As I unload my old 3600 on e-bay for a measly $75, it occurs to me that with my new Q 5600, while I am getting a better-performing PDA, GPS technology is unchanged since my first iQue, and the built-in expense of a new GPS in the 5600 is totally redundant. What's this I notice? The new iQues have come with revised mapping software. For those of us with topo maps or maps outside our country of origin, we'll have to shell out $150 for upgraded versions of topo and foreign maps. Of course Garmin will have upgraded their version of the universal connector that has been so problematic for many of us. Maybe the connectors and form factor are different enough that I'll need all new peripherals, too. Car cradle, hotsync cord, etc.

That is the best case scenario. Here's another:

Now suppose that Garmin is a tad slower to market with their new whiz-banger than their competitors. Palm and Pocket PC makers have leapfrogged Garmin and have faster processors, more RAM, and better mapping software SOONER than Garmin. (I see chances of this to be about 50-50.) Gee. I could be using that Tungsten T7 with BlueTooth GPS, choose from a plethora of mapping software, use all my favorite geocaching software again because there is an NMEA standard datastream coming from the GPS, enjoy backwards compatiblity with all my old and future Palm peripherals, and not have to wait 6 months for all my favorite 3rd party software vendors to make an iQue 5600-compatible version of all my mission critical software. And I could have it right now. But what would that mean?

Well, it means I would need to buy all new topo and European maps, because Garmin's mapping software is proprietary. It means that I will have to get a new car cradle and a host of other peripherals because Garmin's "universal" connector is proprietary. So now I am forced to decide whether to pay through the nose for a non-Garmin solution so that I can have the latest greatest functionality now, or wait until Garmin comes out with their catch-upgrade so that I can maybe save some bucks possibly not having to upgrade maps or peripherals. I'm stuck with Garmin's proprietary stuff.

Why this fanciful journey into the future? Just to show that any argument about the iQue being cheaper may be short sighted, and that it is quite possible that in the future, having owned an iQue might might end up being more expensive.

If today there were a Bluetooth GPS that came bundled with map software that approximated the usefulness of Garmin's, but ran on any high-end Palm PDA, I'd be hard pressed to decide between that and the iQue. I'd gladly shell out an extra $200 to avoid the hassles that this iQue has caused me if I could get the same functionality in a different solution and without the hassles. And my bet is that it's a better investment - in the long run.

[placido]

You are right-on.

I dont know some of the other people that had bought the Ique. That is exactly how I feel. Garmin is very good at making navigation and guidance system (not just the GPS). I hope they will come up with a good bluetooth enabled GPS, because I think bluetooth (or other wireless) type of technology is the way to go.

Garmin's strength is not in PDA. So leave that to the PDA/handheld experts. Do what they do best, i.e. GPS mapping software.

[JohnVa]

Having read all the above I'm not sure i undestand what the big Hoopla is with Bluetooth? Exactly what do you all hope it will provide? GPS positioning to ur laptop or home computer (for what)? It justs seems to me that that bluetooth is a techie freak thing that has little or no real utility in this pda/gps application.

To think that one little device can wash the dishes, clo your laundry, and a host of other things seems to me to be several hundred years away yet. :)

I don't need my pda or my cel phone to take pictures for me, regardless of how cute it is! I still prefer the Nikon 5700 :)

John

[CaptainSpalding]

Originally posted by JohnVa
Having read all the above I'm not sure i undestand what the big Hoopla is with Bluetooth? Exactly what do you all hope it will provide? . . .

That's a fair question. Bluetooth is a short range wireless networking technology. Most Bluetooth device manufacturers promise a range of 30 feet, but devices with double that range are not uncommon. Okay, it's not WIFI, but it's not useless either. Some common uses of Bluetooth:

Bluetooth keyboard and mouse communicate wirelessly with CPU
Wireless headset communicates with Bluetooth cell phone
Laptop or desktop computer with printer
PDA with printer
PDA wireless hotsync via Bluetooth

and finally,

Bluetooth GPS sends GPS signal wirelessly to Bluetooth enabled PDA - from 30 feet away or more. There are several models of Palm and Sony PDA's that already come with Bluetooth built in. So, you put the GPS on your dash and forget it. No need to hook an extra cable up to your PDA as it sits in its cradle. If you're hiking, hold the Bluetooth GPS in your hand until it gets a lock, and then drop it in your shirt pocket. It will keep a lock from there, and broadcast the datastream to the PDA in your hand as you walk. So, you get the screen size and versatility of a PDA and the functionality of a GPS.

The most relevant answer for the purpose of this thread is that the PDA/Bluetooth duo has the potential to be the closest thing to an iQue without being an iQue. And while it doesn't fall into the "that's one less thing I have to carry around" category that the iQue falls into, it has the benefit that you can use the GPS with the PDA without a serial cable, and more importantly, you can keep the GPS and continue to use its software when you upgrade your PDA.

'nuff said.
Cheers!


P.S.: Glad to meet a fellow Nikon user.

[jonasolof]

In the GPS context, the most important thing is that you an let the GPS receiver work away from the pDA and avoid radio interference from the PDA which definitely is a problem. And you don't need an antenna cable, an external amplified antenna being the other solution.

I have used the Emtac bluetooth GPS with ipaq. It is very sensitive but managing bluetooth is more hassle than managing a Gilsson antenna cable, especially if you change to s atraight connector.

[AndersLj]

Originally posted by jonasolof
In the GPS context, the most important thing is that you an let the GPS receiver work away from the pDA and avoid radio interference from the PDA which definitely is a problem. And you don't need an antenna cable, an external amplified antenna being the other solution.

I have used the Emtac bluetooth GPS with ipaq. It is very sensitive but managing bluetooth is more hassle than managing a Gilsson antenna cable, especially if you change to s atraight connector.

But the Bluetooth module does need power. So you have to arrange with some kind of power cable, unless you can live with the inconveninece of constantly handling batteries and recharges.

Besides that, this is a very interesting topic. What will happen with consumer grade GPS navigation in the nearest coming years? Probably a lot. We get more efficient components from the semiconductor manufacturers, and we can expect the big consumer electronics companies to enter the market soon.

We can also expect a growing interest from the consumers. At least in Sweden, we now read reviews of GPS devices in our newspapers and hobbyist's magazines (motor, sailing, hunting, etc.) that are treating GPS as something everyone has use of - not only a device for geeks and very rich people.

Soon the real interesting thing will probably be the maps (and partly the mapping programs). This is the area where the che companies will earn their money in the future. When the GPS device becomes a commodity product that is sold at supermarkets and petrol stations, nobody will earn big money on them.

The users will also notice the biggest difference between different systems in how well the maps and programs solve their needs and expectations. This could be hopeful, because competiton will force the development of better maps. But we must be prepared to pay for regular upgrades. That is where the companies will earn their money in the future. Also expect efficient copy protection!

[placido]

I agree with Ander LJ completely.

The other advantage that I try to point out is that I can choose any PDA device. The new ones that are out now, like the Handsprint Treo is a PDA/cell phone/camera device that runs on Palme 5.2. Because it is also a cell phone, the GSP information it receive has manay more potential uses other than just giveing directons or navigation. For example, using the GSP information, it becomes a tracking device of the user. (Some bluetooth GSP already has this feature). It can also be used as a car security device, like the "On-star" (GM) or the "home-link" (MB) system that are now in many more expensive cars.

The idea of having a bluetooth GPS is very appealing. My feeling is that the potential market for such a device probably will far exceed that of an integrated pda/GPS. Because of Gramin's strength in navigation and GPS mapping technology, I believe that they will come up with a very good bluetooth GPS.

[JohnVa]

:) Thanks for all ur replies. I consider myself somewhat of a techie geek and have 3 sons that inherited the disease :)

It has been my experience that the more complex (read multifunction) you make a device the more apt one of those critical function is to break :( So I am willing to accept a good 2 or 3 function device in lieu of a 50 one. I fully understand that technology will bring us more and more on a chip, witness all the built in capabiblities on the latest motherboards, but I always keep my all-in-one stereo experiences in mind (I am now back again to the multiple pieces).

And Capt S, I luv my Nikon 5700 (one of my fav techie toys) and have taken thousands of pics with it.

John