To those of you experiencing the acquiring satellites with antenna closed sydrome.

[rjack22]

I am curious.

I have noticed (in my case at least) that the acquring satellites with the antenna closed syndrome appears to occur after I have not used my GPS for three or four days. If I use it regularly it seems to be okay.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Garmin wants me to RMA my unit for this problem and I am on the fence as to whether I want to do this yet.

[stephanpls]

In my case it can occur any time period (1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day....) after using the iQue with GPS on. BTW, while the sign 'acquiring satellites' at the bottom centre of the screen is shown, the QueGPS page says GPS is off (which is correct).

[Curious Cat]

I have a theory about this problem that I’m fairly sure Jonas will shoot down when he reads it but here it is:

I believe its possible that one of the fixes that was put into R3 was to help alleviate the problem with the internal antenna failing. There has been general agreement here that a large percentage of these problems could be related to the hall effect transistor going bad. Perhaps R3 is deliberately less sensitive to the readings of this transistor so that it is more likely to assume that the connection is there and to try to receive signals. This would account for many of the units continuing to try to receive signals after the antenna is closed, until perhaps it has recalibrated its sensitivity. Just thought I’d throw this balloon out to see who wants to pop it.

[chorlton]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
I have a theory about this problem that I’m fairly sure Jonas will shoot down when he reads it but here it is:

I believe its possible that one of the fixes that was put into R3 was to help alleviate the problem with the internal antenna failing. There has been general agreement here that a large percentage of these problems could be related to the hall effect transistor going bad. Perhaps R3 is deliberately less sensitive to the readings of this transistor so that it is more likely to assume that the connection is there and to try to receive signals. This would account for many of the units continuing to try to receive signals after the antenna is closed, until perhaps it has recalibrated its sensitivity. Just thought I’d throw this balloon out to see who wants to pop it.

BANG! I think that ballon popped before it even left the ground.
The Hall switch will just present a high or low signal to the processor, rather than a voltage to an ADC since that would be massive overkill for the function it is supposed to provide. And the QueGPS screen definitely knows that the GPS is OFF.

I suspect that the loss of location data being reported, coupled with the "scanning for satellites" is going to be due to communication synchronization issues between the different software modules during power-on wake up. This certainly should be reported as bug to Garmin. Does any one know if Garmin have been informed (Anders?)

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by chorlton
BANG! I think that ballon popped before it even left the ground.
The Hall switch will just present a high or low signal to the processor, rather than a voltage to an ADC since that would be massive overkill for the function it is supposed to provide. And the QueGPS screen definitely knows that the GPS is OFF.


Whoa, hold on there cowboy! Even taking what you say into account, I still don’t see where there couldn’t have been a redundancy introduced by R3 to poll for reception, instead of simply “assuming” the antenna is closed. It doesn’t need to have any variable voltage for this to work. Since this is supposedly an R3 issue, that would rule out hardware as a cause, so it may be something different in the way that the iQue is interacting with the antenna. My theory is that it isn’t a bug necessarily, but an attempt to fix the loss of signal problem many iQues have experienced. Admittedly, my theory is just a theory and probably wrong but before I let you pop the balloon I thought I’d put a band-aid over the puncture and let it fly a little longer.

[jonasolof]

I'd let it fly a little longer. I don't have any knowledge of how the hall effect transistor switching circuit interacts with the rest. I have no idea how the two indicators of GPS acquisition could show diverging results, one on and the other off. Of course you could play around with a small magnet at the bottom of the flap recess to see if that changes anything. I wouldn't fool around with this on a healthy iQue, but since these seem bound for RMA anyhow it could hardly matter.

[rwsmith123]

Originally posted by Curious Cat

I believe its possible that one of the fixes that was put into R3 was to help alleviate the problem with the internal antenna failing. There has been general agreement here that a large percentage of these problems could be related to the hall effect transistor going bad.

The hall effect transistor is only used to determine if the antenna has been opened or not. There were some failures here, but not nearly as many as the other failure where it knows if the antenna is open, but can't acquire the sats. I doubt that there is anything they could do in software to help either problem. I agree with chorlton on this one.

[rjack22]

I did report the problem, via email, to Garmin on Monday. It was a rather long email documenting my experience. The result? They told me to RMA my iQue back to them for repair/replacement.

At first I didn't want to do this yet. I still was convinced it was R3 related since it never happened before R3. But after thinking about it overnight I decided to go ahead and RMA it. I figured it couldn't hurt and I would at least get a updated (hardware) unit back. I did have one of the earlier serial numbers. Now if the problem reoccurs when I get my iQue back...well then I'd say it is definately a R3 thing. So I guess I am the guinea pig since I think I am the first to RMA for this issue on this board.

Shipped it 2-day this morning (sniff). And YES, I am already suffering iQue withdrawal. Now I know what it feels like! With any luck I will have it back by the end of next week. I was hoping to have it for a day trip on the 14th, but we'll see. The turn-around times reported on this board seem to indicate about a week.

I'll let everyone know how it turns out...stay tuned.

[chorlton]

Mr Cat,

Ah, but the HE FET failure causes the iQue to NEVER detect that the antenna is open. No amount of software changes can get around that fact - since how else are they to actually know whether GPS is supposed to be on or off other than by the output of the HE FET.

Also, why would Garmin change the software in the way you suggest, when the failure of the HE FET will result in the user getting it RMA'ed (since the QueGPS screen will always say GPS OFF). They would surely realise that it would cause more trouble than it was worth.

The main question though has to be - Why is the iQue now intermittently lossing the location data. I certainly don't recall seeing this before installing R3. Maybe the "scanning for sats" bug has always been there, but was hidden by the fact that it very rarely lost the location data before R3.

Can anyone recall lossing the location data before R3?

[jonasolof]

I'm confused.

For a time we had a theory that there were two kinds of errors, one with the hall effect transistor and another with the preamp. Then it was said by Anders among others that Garmin blamed it all on the antenna switch transistor. Maybe this is only a simplification for external consumption. In reality, there could be a whole range of problems.

As I just mentioned elsewhere, it is quite conceivable that a firmware change would make a hitherto hidden hardware problem manifest. To me it is obvious that all iQues failing as described in the acquisition threads should be returned.

I haven't seen any of the problems described, albeit my internal antenna is generally not a good performer.

I also repeat what Garmin reps in Belgium told me, many iQues handed in for RMA do receive over the internal antenna if feed with a strong signal from a nearby retransmitting antenna. This indicates a faulty, but not dead receiver.

However, it does not explain the present acquisition aspirations while GPS off problem. It would be interesting to know how the GPS would react if fed a strongt signal as described above.

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by chorlton
Mr Cat,

Ah, but the HE FET failure causes the iQue to NEVER detect that the antenna is open. No amount of software changes can get around that fact - since how else are they to actually know whether GPS is supposed to be on or off other than by the output of the HE FET.


I’m sorry but I still have to disagree. The software could use the switch to determine the position of the antennas as it always has but one could also add the functionality to poll for a signal and if there is a signal within a set amount of time, then it would override what the hardware is telling it.

Anyway, I’m not letting this balloon sink until Jonas runs out of air. :D

[VideoImpression]

Robin:

Did you write down your S/N so you will be able to determine if Garmin is repairing or replacing your iQue? Depending upon the outcome, there may be a number of IQues going out to pasture at Garmin in the near future (including mine, if when the dust settles you no longer have this little "problem")!

[rjack22]

Yes, the serial number is written on the yellow slip that came with the unlock code, so I have it.

But that may or may not mean anything. Garmin could just repair my unit and slap a new serial number sticker on it when they are through. I don't think that there will really be anyway to determine whether I have my old unit, a refurbished unit, or a new unit. I just hope it solves the problem.

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by rjack22
Yes, the serial number is written on the yellow slip that came with the unlock code, so I have it.

But that may or may not mean anything. Garmin could just repair my unit and slap a new serial number sticker on it when they are through. I don't think that there will really be anyway to determine whether I have my old unit, a refurbished unit, or a new unit. I just hope it solves the problem.

I mentioned this a long time ago in a different thread. I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one with some skepticism on the serial number issue. Good luck with your RMA.

[chorlton]

Rjack22

Am I missing something here.

I thought this problem of acquring satellites with the antenna closed was related to trying to route when it had lost the location data.

Or are you suffering a different problem?

[rwsmith123]

Can someone run GPSData when this problem occurs and post the results? I'd be interested in seeing the results.

[doodah]

Originally posted by chorlton
Rjack22

Am I missing something here.

I thought this problem of acquring satellites with the antenna closed was related to trying to route when it had lost the location data.

Or are you suffering a different problem? The routing issue is just one of the symptoms. These guys are speculating on the root problem.

[doodah]

Originally posted by rjack22
I have noticed (in my case at least) that the acquring satellites with the antenna closed syndrome appears to occur after I have not used my GPS for three or four days. If I use it regularly it seems to be okay.

Has anyone else noticed this? No. I've not used it for about 6 days now, and it powers on and remembers its location without flaw. In my case, the problem mostly went away about 2 days after the upgrade. And then completely after several hours of use.

[rjack22]

I first noticed the problem while trying to plot a route (simulate) without the antenna open.

However I soon discovered the problem is more widespread than that. It really has to do with the iQue not remembering its last known position. I could just turn on the ique and go to the map screen. The triangle which shows the last known position would have a flashing question mark in it. In other words, it didn't know its last position. This is what caused the route simulation problem. And that also affected the Sun & Moon, Hunting & Fishing programs because they calculate the information based on your position or last known position.

Now this does not happen all the time. Just some of the time. It can work perfectly fine for days and then it crops up again. I was thinking maybe it occurs when you don't actually use GPS for a few days, but others have said that this didn't make a difference in their case.

So I RMAed it this morning and I will let everyone know if that cleared it up once I get it back and have had an opportunity to use it for a week. If it did, then a lot of people will be RMAing their iQues. If it did not, then I highly suspect a R3 issue.

[rjack22]

Oh, one more weird thing. Last night I used the iQue to route me home. I didn't drive the way it wanted me to, I took a different road and it "recalculated" as expected. When I got to my driveway it told me I was arriving at my destination. I have a long driveway but just before I pulled into the garage I closed the antenna and then a few seconds laster turned it off. This was all normal behavior.

But the strange thing was that this morning before I shipped it I turned it on and was playing with it. I had tapped GPS and a new location. Selected a site probably 90 minutes away then turned it off and then back on. This should have put the triangle back in my driveway (last known GPS position) but guess what? The triange was sitting about two miles south of me where I last ignored the iQues chosen route last night and it had to recalculate the route! Something is definately not right.

It just may be a coincidence that this occured after I installed R3 or it may not be related. The jury is still out on that.

[scpanj]

rjack22,
Are you using my iQue? I have exactly same thing happen to me the day before yesterday (plus lost of location bug and I RMAed it today :-))... yesterday when this happened, I was thinking maybe it was me forgeting when I was last night ...

-- steve

[rjack22]

scpanj,

Well that makes two of us now (that I know about) that have RMA'ed over this issue, GPS losing position)

Wow, I can't believe you had the exact same thing happen.

[jajohnson]

I have also had the Ique not remember the correct last location. It happened once since R3. I pulled into the driveway as I normally do and turned the GPS off by flipping the antenna down. Agfter waiting for the map screen to settle down I turned the Ique off. When I left for work the next morning the Ique showed that my last known position was about 1000 feet down the road (on the route that I had taken). This is just confirmation that a RMA will not probably fix it, since it is a firmware/application bug.

[Holgado]

My Que also can not remember its last position, had GPS working and after a few hours starts asking for the last possition and the circle around the triangle does not appear.

[VideoImpression]

This all seems to be going back to the order in which programs are run, at least in my case. Repeatedly, if my iQue has been off for any length of time (over a minute or so) and I open ANY PROGRAM WITH ANY BUTTON, HARD OR LAUNCHER, BEFORE Qmap, or otherwise open Qmap using the launcher, I LOSE MY COORDINATES. However, when I shut it off and open Qmap WITH THE HARD BUTTON IN THE LOWER RIGHT CORNER, OR TURN IT OFF AFTER I GET THE QUESTION MARK AND TURN IT ON AGAIN WITH QMAP RUNNING--BINGO, MY IQUE ALL OF A SUDDEN NOW KNOWS WHERE IT WAS THE LAST TIME I USED GPS!!

I HAVE JUST TESTED THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES, AND NOW I HAVE FOUND A DEFINITELY REPEATABLE PATTERN THAT I CAN DUPLICATE WITHOUT FAIL (TRIED IT JUST NOW AT LEAST A HALF DOZEN TIMES!!)

Will this now shed any light on the subject, folks? Would anyone like to repeat these exact steps and see if their iQue will respond the same way? Perhaps Garmin can once and for all test this themselves, too??!!

[VideoImpression]

By the way, jajohnson, WHEN I get my iQue to remeber its last location, the arrow is located about 500' South of where I flipped the internal antenna down!!

[jajohnson]

I have just tried the step by step instructions provided by VideoImpression and am unable to reproduce the problem right now. That said, I have been able to previously see the problem doing the same steps.

[jajohnson]

While I was not able to recreat earlier, I was just able to recreate the problem using VideoImpressions steps. I also noticed what may be an additional piece of information. I have never seen the problem while running on external power. Just now I experienced the problem while running on internal (battery) power. I then hooked up using USB power and can't reproduce the problem.

[VideoImpression]

Great observation! I will test this myself when I get home this evening!!

[rjack22]

Sorry, but I had the same problem with external power on my iQue.

[VideoImpression]

Originally posted by rjack22
Sorry, but I had the same problem with external power on my iQue.

I just now tried it, too, my friend. I had the SAME results--"?" in the cradle!