UK Speed Camera Locations Database VCF File

[DeaDLocK]

Hi folks,

Had my iQue for a couple of weeks now and this is my first official post on these forums.

I have taken the latest UK speed camera database file (dated 24th January 2004) from here (http://www.pocketgps.co.uk/uksafetycameras.php) and formatted it into a VCF file that can be easily imported into Palm Desktop. It contains waypoints of nearly 3000 known fixed speed camera sites in the UK. The waypoints are neatly displayed on map as little camera icons.

There is an older version of this file knocking about on the forums, but I believe this is the latest to be posted.

I am not sure if this database is accurate so use it at your own risk, though initial checks have shown all the cameras local to me to be on the database. Having this is certainly better than having nothing, though don't depend on it the way you would a full-featured aftermarket GPS camera-detector system. It may just save your license though.

There is one caveat however: uploading all the waypoints slows down your iQue horribly - I just bought a Sandisk Ultra II SD card thinking that the slowdown was due to my plain-vanilla Sandisk card, but though times are improved with the Ultra II, map redraw times are still painfully slow. I've decided to get used to it as opposed to not having it - may just come in very useful someday.

Now all we need is for someone to write a waypoint alert system (preferably with an audible sound), so that we are notified of upcoming waypoint locations (and consequently camera sites) as we drive.

The ZIP containing the VCF is attached to this post. To install, execute the file. But if VCF files are not associated with Palm Desktop on your PC, the easiest way to install the file is to launch Palm Desktop and then go to File>Import.....

Cheers
DeaDLocK

[Peztone]

Nice work Deadlock, we need something like this.

I have a Geodesy in my car so I don't need it, but will definitely look at it as a backup device!

-S.
-paranoid about speed cameras.

[papagolf]

I have tried to install this as it would appear to be a very handy set of waypoints but it just seems to want to install it to my calender. When I try file, import it doesn't appear to exist, what am I doing wrong? :(

[DeaDLocK]

Launch Palm Desktop. Select the "Adresses" section by clicking on the icon in the menu on the left. Go to File>Import and browse for the VCF file in the ZIP I attached. Make sure "File Type" is set to VCF. You should be sorted then. :)

[nparker13]

Not to sound too american, but what exactly are these speed cameras? I can figure they take your pic of your license plate if your speeding, but are they really as bad as i could imagine?

-nate

***------
***------
----------
----------

:rolleyes: :D

[Curious Cat]

It's easy to fool them. Just paint your license plate(s) over and wear a mask. :D

[Peztone]

Not to sound too american, but what exactly are these speed cameras?

They are evil, revenue generating life removing infringements of personal freedom...

Er.. they are as you say, radar equipped cameras that photograph your license plate, if you get caught you are issued with a £60 fine and get 3 points on your license, get 12 points and you are banned from driving.

They are hidden exactly where you'd not expect them to be despite their positions being advertised as accident hotspots.

There is a straight country road near me which does not bend for 5 miles, it has 3 speed cameras on it, the only thing likely to jump out infront of you on this road is a tree.

I hate the damn things..

The full gorey story here: Speed trap bible (http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Home/Menu1.htm)

[Bokkie]

Originally posted by nparker13
Not to sound too american, but what exactly are these speed cameras? I can figure they take your pic of your license plate if your speeding, but are they really as bad as i could imagine?

-nate

***------
***------
----------
----------

:rolleyes: :D

nate, they are a pain in the UK. They are fixed cameras and take snaps of speeding cars. In some streets like one we drove back on from north London today, there were 3 cameras within maybe a 2km length of road. Usually they are fairly easy to spot but they have been known to be planted in obscure locations to make it difficult to see them. There is also an anarchist group that goes around destroying them but like a weed, they are soon replaced. They are essentially a cash-cow for raising revenue. The puris would say if you drive at the limit then no-one would be fined. There is a court case on the go that is questioning the legality of the the photographs being used as evidence. I'm not sure what it's really about though.

[rbest]

My favorite part was driving in England, for the first time in many years, at night from Heathrow to Northumbria. I kept seeing this flash of a strobe light going off behind me. I had no idea what was going on, I would slow down, but there was no one else on the road. I didn't figure it out until I saw the signs in the daylight.
I never got a ticket. I didn't know if it was just a scare tactic to get you to slow down, or if they decided not to ticket tourists.:D

[Peztone]

While the cameras still use film they often go un attended and you never know if they are taking a picture of not, but to rely on them not having film is a recipe for disaster!

When they go digital you can bet they'll all work all the time...

The new trend is to have a sensor that reads your number plate, and another that reads it 10 miles up the road, then they calculate how fast you were going between the 2 points and .. bing! ...busted.

[kenspice]

I guess I kind of like the system we have in my neck of the woods. There is a large picture of a camera and a big sign stating that the intersection is photo controlled. I don't know if there has been a study as to how many school kids have been hurt by motorists that were speeding or drinking and not paying attention versus how many tickets have been issued. To me, the extra minute or so you might save in time does not seem worth the risk. I installed SPEED to help avoid tickets and I think that is the better system. I don't think your system in the UK is a good one either if the cameras are placed as you say. Can't you form some type of group to fight the legality of hiding cameras? The idea is to save lives and make it safer for pedestrians, not as a money maker to enlarge political coffers. Just my two cents. Fire away!

[Derodeo]

Well I think I'd prefer having fixed camera positions and signs rather than the mobile disguised photo radar equipped cars we have in Canada. These amazing revenue generating devices now (indirectly or directly) produce the majority of police budgets in several cities. They started out as safety monitors usually positioned in school zones but drivers soon figured out it was not a good idea to speed through such places. So the police quickly multiplied their numbers and placed them virtually everywhere but school zones. Revenues have increased steadily year after year, proving that these infernal things do not act as a deterrant.

The unfortunate owner of the vehicle just get a ticket in the mail (you have to make a request for the picture - cheap buggers!), no driving demerits are applied as there's no proof as to who the driver was. The local police love their photo radar so much that they are getting another $150K so they can process their own photos instead of sending them away to the company that developed the system. That way they can cut the processing cost in half and have more time to spend in the donut shops instead of on active traffic enforcement.

[mcvpjd3]

Originally posted by kenspice
I don't think your system in the UK is a good one either if the cameras are placed as you say. Can't you form some type of group to fight the legality of hiding cameras? The idea is to save lives and make it safer for pedestrians, not as a money maker to enlarge political coffers. Just my two cents. Fire away!

There have been lots of protests and groups complaining about the positioning of the cameras, however, these things only work if you live in a democracy and not a 4/5 yearly changing dictatorship.

[Gets down off soap box]

[reinbeau]

While I think the use of the cameras is mainly a revenue generation machine, I always get a kick out of people complaining about them. They're only going to give you problems if you violate the speed limit....that is, after all, against the law! Yes, of course, I speed sometimes, and if I get caught, shame on me.

[Peztone]

You're missing the point Ann, in the UK if you get caught 4 times they take away your license, which in my case would also be taking away my job, which would lose me my house..

Now, if the cameras were in accident black spots I wouldn't have a problem with that, but a camera hidden behind a bush on a dead straight country road is put there to trap me if I'm doing 10-mph over the limit, with the above consequences foir the heinous crime of endangering nobody.

And for the record I've never been caught speeding, but I still hate the infernal things.

-S.

[reinbeau]

No, I'm really not missing the point, I see what the problem is, but I also see what the problem is. If you don't speed, then there's no problem.

I live on what looks like a little country road. Well it isn't (but it's supposed to be). It's a main thoroughfare during the morning and afternoon rush hour for neighboring towns to get to the expressway four miles away. The speed limit is 30. Yea, those two cars (in separate incidents) rolled onto my front lawn becuase they were doing 30. Right. More like 60. Many times I've stood out in my front lawn and written down numbers to report these idiots to the police. They set up traps every once in awhile, but not enough, because my road leads out of town, and I'm almost on the border. People live in those houses along those roads, their kids play, their pets cross. I try to keep that in mind if I catch myself speeding up, and I slow down. And if I get caught speeding, that's my problem, I'm not going to complain about it to anyone.

But that's just me. Of course all that happens to us here in the US is your insurance rates soar through the roof. They like that. They'd love you to get your incidents right up there so they can suck you dry. More money in their coffers. :rolleyes:

[DeaDLocK]

Here in the UK, the basic problem with speed cameras is this:

1) Speed limits as they exist are outdated and too low in most places. They need to be revised. The national speed limit of 70mph was introduced over 30 years ago, when cars were nowhere near as sophisticated as they are today (especially when it comes to braking). Drivers are also a lot more road-aware and are better educated. Most people speed at some point during their daily journey, yet they come and go everyday without incident. There is a place for sensible limits (e.g. schools and built-up areas), but to impose a 70mph limit on a highway (which in the UK was actually designed to be safely travelled at 100mph anyway) is ridiculous. So everyone accepts that speed limits should not be such absolute figures and we all flout the law. Problem is cameras practice no such discretion. A cop may not bat an eyelid when you speed past him at 80mph down an empty motorway but a camera will certainly flicker it's shutter. And regardless of conditions, you are issued with a ticket and given demerit points. Anyway, my first point is that speed limits are too low as they stand but cameras exploit this and the fact that on many roads everyone exceeds the legal limit. There is no regard whatsoever to conditions and the average true speed of that road. Laws change and evolve as society changes, and eventually laws only become guidelines until they are overruled with new and relevent precedents. A case in point is the marijuana situation in the UK. Speed limits have largely become "guidelines" as opposed to stiff laws now, but cameras disregard this completely, and hide behind a profitable holier-than-thou pedestal protected by the law, which happens to be written in some dusty volume somewhere in the corner labelled "60s".

2) What started off as a genuine attempt to deter speeding in places where breaking the limit really is dangerous has blossomed into a brilliant cash-cow for the government. There are nearly three thousand cameras in the UK. For such a small country with not that many main arteries, that is A LOT. Cameras in themselves can be very useful things, and we all know there are punks on the road who deserve to get caught, but the systematic level of blatant exploitation of the legal speed system on mostly-wealthy motorists is mind-boggling. It is simply ridiculous now and lacks no credibility. You really have to be in the UK to know what I'm talking about - they are the bane of society.

Each camera costs in the region of £50k on average to install and run for a year. That same £50k is what costs the police force to hire one extra recruit. Which is better, 3000 cameras or 3000 people who can practice discretion and who can prosecute the people who really deserve it?

I am not trying to justify speeding (well, actually I am - but not in a blatant sense anyway), and my sentiments are not one of a bitter persecuted motorist (well actually they are, but there is a wider issue) - high-ranking government and police officials themselves have condemned the current state of speed cameras in this country.

The system really is in the shambles - have no doubt about it.

DeaDLocK

[Curious Cat]

DeaDLocK,

So you’re all for smoking pot and speeding, hun?. :D

Sorry couldn’t resist. There really isn’t a proper answer to this. Ann feels that no one should speed and if no one did speed would there be fewer accidents, yes there would be less. So in that case you might assume Ann is correct and she may be. The problem with driving and speed is where do you draw the line? Here in the U.S., they lowered the national speed limit years ago from 70MPH to 55MPH, due to an oil embargo. Lo and behold, all of a sudden less people were dying on the highway so the law stuck around long after it had filled its original purpose. The problem with the logic here is you can carry it to absurdum. If we lower the speed limit to 45 will even less people die? Yes. How about 35 or 25? In each case there will be a drop in death rates ( not counting frustrated motorist who shoot at each other :D). Well let’s eliminate cars altogether…I bet nobody dies in an automobile accident then. It’s hard to argue against safety but ultimately it’s a choice between how mobile we want to be or how safe. To carry it one step further, you’re probably safer if you don’t leave your house at all!

My suggestion is to be democratic about it. Vote against anyone who is for the cameras and vote for those that oppose it and if “everyone” really hates these cameras then they will go away. Until then, try to go so fast that by the time the shutter snaps, you’re gone. :D

BTW, ANN, it’s a guy thing. We have to speed. If they didn’t want us to speed then they wouldn’t make cars that go so fast. :D

[Bokkie]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
...Until then, try to go so fast that by the time the shutter snaps, you’re gone...

CC, you will actually be surprised that that was actually tried. A UK motoring program called Top Gear tried to determine if it was possible to go so fast past a camera that it was unable to detect you had done so. I can't remember the actual speed but it was somewhere around the 160mph mark at which point the camera did not flash.

[rbest]

KE=.5M x S x S, Kinetic energy equals one-half mass times speed squared. (E=mc2)
70 MHP is double the energy of 50 MPH. 100 is double 70.
There is a very big diference in energy between 50 and 100. (Lets not talk about distance traveled and reaction time.)

Check out http://www.streetracersonline.com/gallery/index.php?cat=5

I have no doubt that a majority in the US would vote to abolish speed limits (the oil crisis is over, right?), but, as I am sure the europeans can appreciate, the majority voted for Bush.
(Well actually that is not true, but that is another story.) I think of speed limits as protection of minority rights. Most drivers, myself included, will judge a one in a hundred chance a risk worth taking, but for people affected by the one in a hundred, it is their life.

Yes I speed, but I know it is dangerous, and I will have to pay when I am caught. Thanks for the speed program, I have it set to 9 mph over the speed limit. That is fair, without limits I would be going way too fast.;) :D

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by Bokkie
CC, you will actually be surprised that that was actually tried. A UK motoring program called Top Gear tried to determine if it was possible to go so fast past a camera that it was unable to detect you had done so. I can't remember the actual speed but it was somewhere around the 160mph mark at which point the camera did not flash.


Bokkie,

Fess up... it was you wasn't it? :D

[Bokkie]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
Bokkie,

Fess up... it was you wasn't it? :D

I drive a Toyota Corolla Verso. She has no idea what 160 is. She did once though manage to get to about 90 and at that speed the wall paper started to peel off!:D

[kenspice]

You're missing the point Ann, in the UK if you get caught 4 times they take away your license, which in my case would also be taking away my job, which would lose me my house..

Lose your license, lose your job, lose your house? If I were confronted with those possibilities I would put a block of wood under my gas peddle, join the police force and invest in the company that makes the cameras and nope...I'll stay right up here on my soap box!

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by kenspice
You're missing the point Ann

You're missing the quote marks...:D

[kenspice]

Thanx Mr. Cat or (Stylus claws), I also see I spelt sum udder tings wrong. Peddle, peddal aahh wot da hell.....

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by Curious Cat BTW, ANN, it’s a guy thing. We have to speed. If they didn’t want us to speed then they wouldn’t make cars that go so fast. :D I know, but some of us gals feel the need for speed sometimes, too!

[7driver]

Deadlock - nice work.

I'm trying to get a file together without the redlight cameras in it. This would be considerably smaller, and so not have the same effect of slowing down the redraw times (I have a panasonic card and its still dreadfully slow).

I think I've seen the source file (.txt or .csv, I think). Do you have a good way of converting it?

Does your list add camera icons as Bill's did? I'm not sure how to do that yet!

Mail me and we can talk more. This is very useful for me!

db

[7driver]

I've now got a pretty slick way of converting the file.

Here's my copy - version 2.011 from pocketgps.co.uk, updated 24th Jan.

I called mine all "Camera" rather than "Gatso" as it looks better on the map, I think!

The big issue is the size of this file. I am working to take out duplicate locations and red camera lights - by listing the camera numbers. If anyone wants to help by sending ones through - do mail me!

I have 4 so far... :)

db

PS - Thanks to Bill for all his help getting here so far!

[OceanView]

> PS - Thanks to Bill for all his help getting here so far!

Your welcome ;-)

What is the issue with dups? I have an Excel macro for finding and deleting dups if that would help? Let me know.

-Bill

[7driver]

I'm just tidying up some of the data - the issue with dupes is that some cameras appear to be within 100m of each other -- in which case I'll delete one of them. It's just a question of pair-wise checking of distances and adding them to my exclusion table.

There also appear to be a bunch of cameras in the Bristol Channel a long way off-shore, so they are going too!

[7driver]

WARNING

File above is incorrect. I am altering it to take account of some cameras mysteriously jumping 60 miles... (integer degrees).

Apologies for any mistaken downloads. Corrected edited file to follow.

db

[DeaDLocK]

Yes, I forgot to credit Bill for his wonderful little tool which generated the VCF file I uploaded.

As for formatting the CSV from the pocketgps site into a TXT file that was compatible with Bill's program, I took a look at an older version of said text file (which again Bill posted) and I compared data with the spreadsheet and reverse engineered it to create the new one.

Wasn't easy I'm afraid - well not knowing anything about Lat/Lon codes and the various ways of writing the data did not help. But in the end I got there.

Yes, if you could find a way of reducing the number of cameras so that the slowdown isn't too unbearable, I'd be grateful.

In fact, further to my first post, I have actually removed all the camera data - simply because it is just too much.

What I may do is upload the data to Mapsource and preview the route in Mapsource to see if there are any cameras along the way. At least I think I can do this anyway...

D

[7driver]

I've now got a pretty good spreadsheet that will convert the simple CSV file from pocketgps into a tab delimited file for Bill's tool.

It also will exclude cameras by number. I have started by excluding any camera that is within 250m of another camera.

I'd ideally like to exclude the red light ones as well so that we can lightenen the data up by about half.

The spreadsheet is linked to if you want to take a look at it. I've attached the vcf file that I am using - its 2883 points at the moment - not much of a reduction yet.

db

Spreadsheet at www.turl.st/seven/pocketgps%20converter.zip

[julesdby]

Hi, i am new to the iQue movement ( fantastic bit of kit ).
I downloaded all those great Waypoints for the Speed Camera's and i was most impressed.
Now for the Problem my iQue is soooo slow !! it also seems to have effected the acuracy ?? ( is this possible ?? )
I can delete them one but one, but the list seems endless !!


Is there anyway to select multiple waypoints and delete them all in one go ?? :confused:

Whilst i am in here whats the must have software for the iQue's ?? any suggestions ?

Thanks to anyone that can help in advance.

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by julesdby
Hi, i am new to the iQue movement ( fantastic bit of kit ).
I downloaded all those great Waypoints for the Speed Camera's and i was most impressed.
Now for the Problem my iQue is soooo slow !! it also seems to have effected the acuracy ?? ( is this possible ?? )
I can delete them one but one, but the list seems endless !!


Is there anyway to select multiple waypoints and delete them all in one go ?? :confused:

Whilst i am in here whats the must have software for the iQue's ?? any suggestions ?

Thanks to anyone that can help in advance.

If you have put all the waypoints in a separate category you can use the address book and select that category and then select all/delete except when I just tried this I noticed the select all doesn't do anything. Does this work for anyone? Anyway, you can do it from the Palm Desktop the same way and it does work.

[7driver]

I think the best way of deleting waypoints is to delete them several at a time in palm desktop. Do a find for the ones that you want to delete, select them all and they are gone.

Must have software?

I've got chessgenius, brightiq, LondonTubeA-Z, FugawiUK, Planetarium, Harden's guide which I consider "essential".

db

[julesdby]

Curious Cat & 7driver MANY MANY thanks !!
As i said i am new to the iQue and did not even think about using the Palm Desktop !!! Doh !
All waypoints now deleted and suprise suprise map speed is superb again !

Must say i am gob-smacked at how quick people have got back to me your superstars.

I will be looking at the software you have suggested 7driver, thanks.

I have just uploaded Worldmate good for showing your mates but i don't travel that much , plus i can see this registering all the software getting very very expensive !!

Thanks again. :D

[7driver]

There's a developer in a different forum that I have been speaking with who is looking at an app just to upload the relevant points to the map - a tough call I reckon - but we'll see if he can do it. Will obviously post here if I see it.

db

[tusker]

Originally posted by julesdby
Hi, i am new to the iQue movement ( fantastic bit of kit ).
I downloaded all those great Waypoints for the Speed Camera's and i was most impressed.
Now for the Problem my iQue is soooo slow !! it also seems to have effected the acuracy ?? ( is this possible ?? )
I can delete them one but one, but the list seems endless !!


Is there anyway to select multiple waypoints and delete them all in one go ?? :confused:



Using Excel spreadsheets is not exactly in my comfort zone, but this idea looks as if it should work. If you just want to capture the cameras in the Birmingham area - West Midlands, not Alabama! - then imagine drawing a square shape around the city, and look for places near the NW and SE corners of the square. I chose Dudley and Solihull. Fire up StreetMap (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/) and get Latitude and Longitude readings for these 2 places: 52.411, -1.777 for Solihull & 52.512, -2.073 for Dudley. Download 7driver's data which is in Excel spreadsheet format and use the 'Filter' command to filter out all data not between the values of 52.411 & 52.512, and -1.777 & -2.073. If my logic is correct, then the speed cameras captured by this process are only the ones inside the square shape you originally imagined drawing.

It is then just a case of downloading these points to the iQue, and remembering when you drive outside the square.:p

I would emphasise that I have not actually done this to prove I am right, other than testing that applying the suggested filtering does indeed eliminate all but 83 cameras, which feels about right. However, my logic may need a bit of 'tweaking'!


Paul

[7driver]

I like that thinking.

If I can be arsed, I might even build that functionality into my spreadsheet.