Poll for/against a sticky, listing IQue specific updates.

[iiicRules]

It has been brought to my attention again that some people wish for there to be a sticky thread, that has announcements to do with the IQue.
I decided it was time to see what the general IQue visitor wanted:- I can't justify a sticky on just a couple of opinions, when there may be many more opposite opinions. So here is a poll, which I will make a sticky for one week (to give you an idea of what it's like having a sticky), that I want you to ALL vote in. It will be left open for 1 week, during which time I hope there will be a clear winner for or against this sticky.

For:-
You will get a sticky, so it will always appear above all other posts.
It will give you easy access to the latest announcements/releases.
It will be uncluttered (i.e. it will be locked to the general members to stop there being general posts, keeping the thread brief and relevant.)

Against:-
It will always be on top of the other posts so it may get in the way of general browsing.

You have one week so GET VOTING!

[JK110]

I may be slow, but I do not understand what a "sticky" is :confused:

[JMckie]

I was the first voter :)

[iiicRules]

Originally posted by JK110
I may be slow, but I do not understand what a "sticky" is :confused:

A sticky is a thread that is "stuck" to the top. It will always be the first thread on the forum board, no matter when the last reply was.

[rjack22]

Do you know, I tend to ignore the sticky threads. Maybe I shouldn't, but I do.

[Last Mrk]

Every forum I visit has stickys. It's a way to inform members of important issues etc.

[HPH]

I voted 'yes' for this one, but I will lobby against a proliferation of stickies. One forum I'm a member of has a whole screen of the damned things, some antiquated. They just get in the way. HPH

[Bokkie]

A good idea. We had a lot of positive feedback in the sticky we had asking what we'd like to see in R4, for those who remember it...who couldn't?:)

A sticky like what's proposed that is used for announcements, software, faq, etc is a good idea I think, and if non-editable will cut out a load of the nonsense that we tend to post - I know, I'm one of the worst offenders!:D

[Bokkie]

Just thought of something. If we the riff-raff in the forum can't edit it then someone needs to be able to. Would it work on the line that someone would notify the mods to make the change to the content displayed?

[iiicRules]

Originally posted by Bokkie
Just thought of something. If we the riff-raff in the forum can't edit it then someone needs to be able to. Would it work on the line that someone would notify the mods to make the change to the content displayed?

Yes basically. Either its open for all or locked. If it's locked only Mods/Admin will be able to add posts to it. Once it was decided who was going to collate the info to be put on it, they would then have to just e-mail it to me to every time it needs updating, and I would add it.

Just to let you all know, I most likely won't be around the forums much until early next week, so nothing will be finalised until then. You have a few days to discuss it and vote in the poll until then.

iiicRuled

[Tymb]

If there were an "Last updated on (DATE)" line, it would be more useful.

[RVRodie]

I vote yes, as long as moderators are willing to manage this thread, including deleteing outdated posts.

Anything thing that gets added to this thread should start out as a seperate discussion topic. Once it becomes evident that there is long term utility to a post, then the moderators can move the relavent post to the sticky thread, or just post a link to the thread.

[Moose Man]

I voted yes and for the specific reasons which won't make it's way into the sticky thread.

The Que is no longer a new device. We keep getting new user's that don't search their questions and start new threads that aren't useful to some of the older posters. If the sticky were to include the FAQ's that Jonas and Anders have created and several sig lines point to outside of this forum - then I think a sticky to replace that "outside" faq is warranted.

When I was playing with the Sony clie TH55, ClieSource used one of my threads (a review) as a sticky so that everyone could follow along and it worked great.

A FAQ style sticky would be perfect and would cut down on "extra" posts that have already been answered ten fold.

[alexcue]

Originally posted by HPH
I voted 'yes' for this one, but I will lobby against a proliferation of stickies. One forum I'm a member of has a whole screen of the damned things, some antiquated. They just get in the way. HPH


I'm with you on this one. Just one would be fine, with relavent links, but more than that and people tend to ignore them.

[bamb_i]

The stikies should be identidied with different font and font colour, with last upddate date and the numbers should be strictly regulated so that we dont have too many stickies floating around!

[stairman]

I think most of what we want in a stidky thread scould be in the FAQ. Perhaps if Anders would keep the FAQ up to date with a "Useful programs for IQ." list all we would need at the top of the forum would be a "Please read FAQ before posting." notice.

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by stairman
I think most of what we want in a stidky thread scould be in the FAQ. Perhaps if Anders would keep the FAQ up to date with a "Useful programs for IQ." list all we would need at the top of the forum would be a "Please read FAQ before posting." notice. No, I disagree. I think we should stick (no pun intended) to the original thought in this thread, this sticky thread would be just for the various software packages that have been developed specifically for the iQue. Enough of us have the FAQ link in our sigs, and Anders does a fine job in keeping the FAQ, let's not burden him with more to do.

Yes, the sticky post should reference the software name, the date of the newest issue, and the purpose of the software. The creators of the software should, perhaps, have the responsibility to give this info to the moderator (or whoever ends up keeping this sticky post up to date, I'd be happy to volunteer if the mods don't want the responsibility) when the software is issued or updated.

Howsabout it? :D

[stairman]

It appears the ayes have it.

[Bokkie]

There are still 10 dissenters. Hunt them down. Confiscate their iQue's. Make 'em beg!:D

[HPH]

Hey, give 'em credit for not stuffing the ballot box. (I guess. Maybe it's just one person who voted 10 times.) HPH

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by HPH
Hey, give 'em credit for not stuffing the ballot box. (I guess. Maybe it's just one person who voted 10 times.) HPH I don't think you can, unless you have 10 different screen names!

The only problem I see with these sticky threads is they screw up the order as you go through the posts. What I do is go to the bottom, to the first unread post, and go through they hitting the 'next post' button and then the 'newest post in thread' button, and frequently it'll pop right to the top to the sticky post, skipping all inbetween. Oh well, I still think it's worth it to have it at the top.

[HPH]

Hmm. Well, I have to preface this by saying that I'm a scientist, so it's OK for me to try stuff.

I just voted again, as an experiment (so the results are off by one yes vote).

But now I don't see the choices any more, and this vote was from a different computer (home) from my earlier one (work). I guess this means that the PDAStreet cookie keeps track of this. And, in turn, that means you can stuff the ballot box by deleting your cookie between votes.

Nothing like full disclosure.

I guess it's a good thing that it isn't particularly close. HPH

[ronk1030]

Yes but there should be a limit of them

[tke918]

Originally posted by iiicRules

For:-
You will get a sticky, so it will always appear above all other posts.
It will give you easy access to the latest announcements/releases.
It will be uncluttered (i.e. it will be locked to the general members to stop there being general posts, keeping the thread brief and relevant.)

Against:-
It will always be on top of the other posts so it may get in the way of general browsing.

You have one week so GET VOTING!

How often there is an important announcement which benefit most of the ique users. I think it's not too often from Garmin. But if this thread includes 3rd party softwares, it's most likely going to be mess cuz not all the 3rd party softwares are important to everybody.

I think, a fixed span sticky (such as one week) is appropriate for "announcments/releases" thread, not permanent.

Or...

If someone posted a something important, make that thread sticky for a week or two.

It's mroe tedius work to moderators but it works for me!

[CaptMike]

I think that is a great idea, cuts down a lot of time searching.

[Curious Cat]

One sticky is great, more than one could get annoying. With this in mind, I believe the “one and only sticky” should include links to the FAQ’s and everything else that we feel is important, esp., to someone new to iQueing or this forum. Short verbiage and the use of links should keep it from becoming too unwieldy. If there is something on the sticky that has served it’s purpose but is no longer applicable, then it can be edited out. We can always post a poll to decide if we want something in particular to be included, in fact we will probably need a poll to decide how broad this sticky should be in the first place.

[abid786]

Vote YES for stickys.

Abid

[Berty]

I think the idea is long overdue. I've been wasting mucho time searching for items which, under the new, progressive idea, would have been all in one thread. Bang that gavel!

[iquique]

I am voting yes in the hopes that the original suggestion is what will be implemented: A list of download links to the latest versions of the great quality software developed for the iQue by the members.

I learned about the Q on 3/20/04 and made it a whole 14 hours before I just had to order one. Other than going to work, I have not put it down since it showed up. So, speaking as a Newbie, I have spent LOTS and LOTS of time recently, pouring through this and any other iQue information source that I could find. This forum is by far the best, so I settled here, registered and decided to write this book.

The information in the FAQ's and the discussed ‘Area for Newbies’ are both great ideas, but they are different ideas than this "sticky list of latest version download links" (say that three times, real fast). I spent 20-30 minutes last night just trying to see if I had the latest versions of several of the wonderful programs offered by members on this site, before I do a hard reset for the fun of it (yes, I am the kind of sick-o/geek that thinks its fun). It was a real pain of a search and a short sticky list of links would have been just the ticket.

This sticky list should be as short as possible (unlike this post), indicating just the product/file name, version number, date uploaded, download count, author’s login and name (they deserve to be better known and recognized for their contributions - THANKS!). If I want descriptions or information about these programs, I will search the forum threads using the program name from the sticky list. If I am reading a thread about a program, it could just have a link to the sticky page. Putting too much information in the sticky, even if relevant, would dilute the sticky’s usefulness by making people look harder, again. With lots of text, this sticky will be just as tough to search as the current forums.

I have been very pleased at the 'availability' postings of new map and software updats from Garmin (e.g. recent basemap updates, the R3 announcement, the hopeful announcement of the R3 patch for the flashing “?” in the map pointer, etc.). I would think that this class of link would have a good fit in this sticky list too. Short & beneficial, even though it is easily identified on the Garmin download page, being slapped in the face with the availability will encourage those, who might not have sought out the information on their own, to upgrade.

This sticky should definitely avoid any links to retail establishments or people who are looking for another opportunity to market their product. The best price/place, etc. information would change too often and have too many variations around the world. It would be a maintenance nightmare that is probably better handled in the forum as it is now (ask and ye shall shop).

A list of retail recommendations would be a nice addition in the Newbie/FAQ area though. Not a list of the BEST price/place, etc, just a list of good solid reasonable iQue aware establishments that provide solid information and service. Short lived information about “low price opportunities” can be handled in the forum, as it is now. Probably a short black list of bozo’s would be appropriate too. Both would have to have some geographical orginization too.

My search for Newbie information took me down the path where I read everything I could find without knowing much about what I was reading (I started researching as soon as I ordered but did not have one in my hands for 6 days including the weekend). One big problem was that I did not know the terminology to search for. You either look through the questions that people ask for what you want and hope to find something, or just click them all and read them all. I did the latter. Several times.

The questions are frequently not representative of ALL of the information that winds up being helpful inside. As an example, the recent Prime Meriden thread was the clearest example of what map datum is all about and how/why it is used that I have found. However, I passed over the thread for a couple days before bothering to read it, due to a subject line that I did not know I was interrested in.

Since a Newbie does not know what he needs to know, much less what words to search for, it would seem that putting all questions and answers on 1 page, or in a WinZip’ed TXT file that could be downloaded, would provide significant benefit for Newbies like myself. I find that using the search functions on the web are frequently too slow for my taste (yes, my PC is a dog, but I correctly chose the iQue when looking for a replacement last month). When possible, I prefer to use the browser or other application’s FIND function to parse a large page of text. A single web page with all questions and all answers on it or a downloadable file with the same information, would be something to consider as a solution for us Newbies, that may be even easier to maintain for the wonderful people who do it for us (Thanks!).

If the ‘download of a TXT file of Newbie information’ idea works for others and is adopted, then the simple link to this Newbie file should go on the Sticky page. No explanation other than a descriptive file name, like “iQue Newbie Information Cache.zip”. Like the software on the sticky, if you want to know what it is about, just search the forums for the file name to find the threads that explain the item(s) at length.

One last topic, the moderator stated he would be willing to deal with one person who has collected and collated the data for the sticky list

“Once it was decided who was going to collate the info to be put on it, they would then have to just e-mail it to me to every time it needs updating, and I would add it.”.

Has anyone thought about how this would work? I hope this is not one of those you touch it, you own it questions as I am still trying to just get through the learning curve on my Q (so I can run it from memory). Ha. Give me a few months to see if I know what I think I should know even though I don’t know what I don’t know now or even if I need to know it, and I would be willing to do it. I’m already staying up until 02:00 or later every night because I just can’t put the iQue down... Throw in the SDK I will be grabbing soon and the fun will never stop. Wa-hoo.

That’s my .02 dollars worth. Sorry about the length of this post/book. Thanks to all who make this the great forum it is.

Ken

And the gavel bangs a second time.

[iiicRules]

Okay I'm back. There has obviastly been much going on in the way of discussion and voting. It's near impossible for the No's to come back and win now, so we'll assume the Yes' have it. (There is a very large margin- thanks to all those who voted.)

A few things-
1) This will be ONE and only ONE sticky, so don't worry about there being more.
2) Thanks to those who offered to keep it up to date. Unfortunately, due to the nature of this thread (it will be locked) only mods will be able to update change it. I don't mind updating the thread, but there will need to be someone appointed to collate the info and organize it. They can then e-mail me it and i'll put it on the board.
3) You shouldn't be able to vote more than once- if it was the same person with 10 usernames, they would also need 10 different working e-mail addressess :D

Now what we need is to appoint someone to collate the information. (Remember this information will be iQue specific updates etc, not any old announcements). I'm not sure how to do this, but maybe if people could put their names forward on this thread, then when we have a few names, we can vote on who you think is most appropriate for the task. I hope this sounds satisfactory. Of course, those whose names a put forward would have to be happy to do such a thing, so if you are suggested, please also post to say if you are happy/unhappy to do this.

I think an approprate candidate would be someone who has posted these important iQue announcements in the past. (I don't know if this comes down to mainly one member- if so, maybe they can do the job). I've heard of "Anders"- is he the guy who posts these announcements? (Sorry for my poor knowledge of people on this forum. I don't have an iQue so I don't tend to post here!)

Thanks all. I want to get this moving and wrapped up ASAP, so I can get rid of this sticky and put the proper one in place.

iiicRuled

[reinbeau]

I would be happy to pull the info together for you. Just tell me what you want done!

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by reinbeau
I would be happy to pull the info together for you. Just tell me what you want done!

I nominate Ann or am I seconding it…oh well, I’m voting for Ann, yeah that’s it.

[Bokkie]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
I nominate Ann or am I seconding it…oh well, I’m voting for Ann, yeah that’s it.

I second Ann, and I second Anders, and I second Jonas, and I propose and second that Most Eminent And Research Intensive Domesticus Cattus Cattus.;)

[iiicRules]

So far nominated:
-Jonas, Anders, Ann and Curious Cat (in no particular order).
Confirmation of happiness to do job(!):
-Ann.

Keep going. If we don't hear from the other nominated persons, I'll PM them in a day or two so we can get this going.

I would be happy to pull the info together for you. Just tell me what you want done!
Well this is the thing- it's what you guys want done!!
The job will be to collect the information sent to you by different users about important iQue news/updates. It will need sorting- you will need to decide whats important and what does not need to be put in the post. Then put it together in a post that flows from start to finish, and is easy to navigate, as well as clear and consise. Then just e-mail it to me and i'll add it to the sticky.

My understanding was that the iQue was being developed still on the software side, and from time to time there were important announcements/updates. I heard that frequent visitors here were even involved in the development of such things (maybe some of the users listed above?) and they gave useful info on whats happening etc. These were the types of things that I thought would go on this sticky. But really its up to whoever is organising the sticky- what they deem to be important enough to be added.

iiicRuled

[dough333]

Following up on my thread that introduced this whole idea, in my note to you to put up the poll, I also volunteered to help. So I guess my hat is in the ring too.

[iiicRules]

Yep sure, I'll add you to the list. I have had others request the same thing too- I can't remember who though. I don't have the e-mails any longer.
P.S. Can you give me a link to the thread? I don't think I've seen it. Thanks

[dough333]

Originally posted by iiicRules
Yep sure, I'll add you to the list. I have had others request the same thing too- I can't remember who though. I don't have the e-mails any longer.
P.S. Can you give me a link to the thread? I don't think I've seen it. Thanks

Sorry been on the road with no access to the internet. Here is the URL:
http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=39624

[iiicRules]

Thanks for the link. This gave me a chuckle:
Originally posted by BokkieJust DON'T mention my name!
Lol!

Anyways, as is often the case with stickys when people get to know they're always there, this thread has died as I think people have stopped looking at it. So tommorrow I'll PM those who've been nominated and haven't said they're happy to do the job yet. So you have 18-24 hours to get those nominations in.

I think I'll unsticky this too- that way it might get some more attention!!!

iiicRuled.

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by iiicRules
Thanks for the link. This gave me a chuckle:

Lol!

Anyways, as is often the case with stickys when people get to know they're always there, this thread has died as I think people have stopped looking at it. So tommorrow I'll PM those who've been nominated and haven't said they're happy to do the job yet. So you have 18-24 hours to get those nominations in.

I think I'll unsticky this too- that way it might get some more attention!!!

iiicRuled.

I nominate the holder of the proverbial "Senior Morale Officer" status. :D At least he'd bring a curious viewpoint to the maintenance issue.

I also nominate the aloofsive Springbok with the "passing gas" avatar just because of his word of mouth can also double as an energy source.

I would also suggest one of the ESC members - see
this thread by Bokkie (http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40380)

Then you also have the "Geek who can't log off" contigent would also bring a certain gender balance.

All of that said it should be someone that's been around awhile and active within the "Q" continuum and who really would like to do it.

So hopefully that person that really wants to do it will step up to the plate and take a swing at it.

[iiicRules]

Okay. Having contacted all those nominated, we are left with just two of you who have been nominated and are willing to sort the thread. The two are Curious Cat and Ann (reinbeau). I was thinking that rather than do a poll to choose someone, maybe you could both work together to look after this thread? If you both have IM software maybe you could communicate with each other and organise it that way... If you aren't happy with that idea, and would rather it came down to just one person, then just say and I'll set up a poll.
Please let me know which way you are both happy with, and then you can go ahead and put the stuff together for this sticky, and we'll get it up and running.
iiicRuled.

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by iiicRules
Okay. Having contacted all those nominated, we are left with just two of you who have been nominated and are willing to sort the thread. The two are Curious Cat and Ann (reinbeau). I was thinking that rather than do a poll to choose someone, maybe you could both work together to look after this thread? If you both have IM software maybe you could communicate with each other and organise it that way... If you aren't happy with that idea, and would rather it came down to just one person, then just say and I'll set up a poll.
Please let me know which way you are both happy with, and then you can go ahead and put the stuff together for this sticky, and we'll get it up and running.
iiicRuled.

I’d be happy to let Ann do it by herself or I’d be happy to work together with Ann.

Hope it pays well. :D

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
I’d be happy to let Ann do it by herself or I’d be happy to work together with Ann.

Hope it pays well. :D CC, we can work together, I think we'll make a great team! :)

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by reinbeau
CC, we can work together, I think we'll make a great team! :)

OK, you do it the first 5 years and then we’ll switch. :D

Really it sounds great Ann! I think it will work out better with the two of us doing it.

Maybe they will eventually make us honorary moderators and we can kick out people who stay on topic too much. :D

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
OK, you do it the first 5 years and then we’ll switch. :D

Really it sounds great Ann! I think it will work out better with the two of us doing it.

Maybe they will eventually make us honorary moderators and we can kick out people who stay on topic too much. :D

I have the utmost confidence in both of you........well at least the utmost confidence in Reinbeau. ;)

How can you have confidence in a 4 legged fury little creature that can't stay on topic for more than one of it's 9 lives?
:)

Truthfully, I think you'll both do a great job and I know that I will be appreciative of your efforts. Thanks for volunteering. ;)

[iiicRules]

Lol. Glad that's sorted. So do you guys know what to do? I think it's basically explained earlier in this thread- but again, you will be doing the thread so it's up to you! Whatever you think is appropriate and relevant enough. Feel free to get it all together and sorted out from now on. Obviastly you can build on it, so you don't have to get all the stuff there first time. A big link to the FAQ would be a good idea I think but I'm sure you'd do that anyway...

There is one thing that you can't share though- who's going to be the thread owner? (i.e. the person who it says started the thread). I can put myself as thread owner, but as it will be written by you guys it ought to really be under one of your names. Anyway let me know who you decide again! That really should be the last desicion thank-goodness! :)

Its probably best if you e-mail me from now on, rather that doing stuff via this thread. If you both send me a quick e-mail then I'll have your e-mail addressess then I can write back and you'll have mine...

iiicRuled.

[Bokkie]

Well done, Cat. Well done, Ann. I withdrew any nomination for me as it is vitally important to have someone to act as a pillar of solidity rather than me, who is a tower of jelly!

Between you, you will do well. I'm just curious why the Sviddish gentleman did not want in. They are almost too quiet on the subject!:)

The pay is great. 5-star hotels. Company jet. Magellan GPS. PocketPC.;)

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by Bokkie
Well done, Cat. Well done, Ann. I withdrew any nomination for me as it is vitally important to have someone to act as a pillar of solidity rather than me, who is a tower of jelly!

Between you, you will do well. I'm just curious why the Sviddish gentleman did not want in. They are almost too quiet on the subject!:)

The pay is great. 5-star hotels. Company jet. Magellan GPS. PocketPC.;)

Bokkie - I had no clue as to how wrong you can be until this post. You know that it's only 4-Star hotels they are allowed to stay at. :D

I've already gave them my blessing but I'll reiterate - Well done to both of you.

[Curious Cat]

Just to keep everyone updated-I’ve emailed Ann already and we will be working out the details and hope to have the sticky launched soon. Thanks for your patience.

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
Just to keep everyone updated-I’ve emailed Ann already and we will be working out the details and hope to have the sticky launched soon. Thanks for your patience. CC, I've got your PM, I'll answer it tonight when I get home! :)

[Bokkie]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
Just to keep everyone updated-I’ve emailed Ann already and we will be working out the details and hope to have the sticky launched soon. Thanks for your patience.

What sort of ideas and format for the sticky are on the agenda, CC?

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by Bokkie
What sort of ideas and format for the sticky are on the agenda, CC?

Well I believe Ann and I are in agreement on how to do it but I’d rather confer with her first before we open it up for discussion. No matter what, there will be ample opportunity for everyone to have input and make suggestions.

Hmm, I’m staring to sound like a politician. :)

[Bokkie]

That's ok. I'm sure her sound head and your silly head will make a good head when the two are added together. Why, you might as well call it a Bokkie head!

It might be an idea if you keep it pm between the two of you until the strategyformat is resolved otherwise there will be a lot of sniping too soon!

Gosh! I sound almost dictatorial.:p

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by Bokkie

It might be an idea if you keep it pm between the two of you until the strategyformat is resolved otherwise there will be a lot of sniping too soon!


That was the idea...:)

[Curious Cat]

We are now getting the “Sticky Post” organized and we would like to receive suggestions about which software updates to include. We are specifically looking for the names of software that you would like to be on the sticky and if possible include a link. It does not have to be software that runs on the iQue only but it should at least be software that iQue users would tend to use. Not all suggestion will necessarily be included.

If you have developed a program for the iQue, please PM Ann or myself with a short ( 2 or 3 lines) description of how you would like your product described and a link if applicable. In the future, please PM us when something changes, esp., an update to the software.

Let’s please just make suggestions and not debate any of the merits at this time. The sticky can always be changed later and it certainly will. Thanks for your cooperation.



Ann & Curious Cat

[Bokkie]

I'd like to see the essential/useful Garmin related items available as links. Things such as Mapsource updates, utilities, anything from their website that might be construed as useful to or specific to the iQue. I often neglect to keep in touch with Garmin's website because it can be slow and when you have to chase several links it can be frustrating on occasions.

If you have their links on the sticky, then one-click for all, and it saves having to add bookmarks of our own (just mho).

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by Bokkie
I'd like to see the essential/useful Garmin related items available as links. Things such as Mapsource updates, utilities, anything from their website that might be construed as useful to or specific to the iQue. I often neglect to keep in touch with Garmin's website because it can be slow and when you have to chase several links it can be frustrating on occasions.

If you have their links on the sticky, then one-click for all, and it saves having to add bookmarks of our own (just mho).

Absolutely, this is part of the plan. We will be relying on the entire forum to let us know when something changes. We will also give a high priority to software written by our forum members.

Right now we are looking for help in gathering links, etc., to all the other software members use such as map products, MP3 players, etc.