multiple pdas in sync

[CUNNINGHAM]

I have 2 pdas, both using the palm o/s. I can easily synchronize them seperately to my desktop. But I haven't found a simple way to get these two in sync with one another, and keep them that way. Any suggestions?
Cunningham

[DrMud]

Take a look at the two apps listed below. ONe of them should fit your needs.
DrMud




Dual Date (http://www.palm.com/support/dualdate/) Sync US (http://www.timjane.dsl.pipex.com/syncusreadme.html)

[CUNNINGHAM]

DrMud,
Thanks for your suggestions, but unfortunately, the first seems only to coordinate calenders, while the second (SyncUs) notifies the user of updated items and offers to sync them one-at-a-time.
Since this is a business database, a great many updates occur each day on both handhelds. Any ideas for an easier way?
Cunningham

[DrMud]

Cunningham,
(Great name! One of my favorite cars.)

Palm Desktop and the Outlook conduit do not support the syncing of one user HotSync ID to multiple Palms, as data corruption can occur. Basically, you can HotSync multiple Palms to separate Palm user ids on the computer.

I keep a Palm Vx in my car as a back up and about twice a week I beam the data bases for address and calendar. I recognize that is for you no solution.

Let me think a little more about this. The problem is the sync info stored in the Palm at the end of the sync.??
doc

[CUNNINGHAM]

DrMud-

Thanks for the attention you're giving this. I'd actually thought it was going to be easy.
Based on what little I've come up with on my own, your I/R sync, however imperfect, may be the only solution. If so, are you doing a global sync directly between handhelds? And if so, how?
Hard to believe we're the only ones around that need to coordinate files on two pdas.

Cunningham
(Unfortunately, no relation to Briggs)

[DrMud]

THe IR method has not only the limitation of time and effort it would mean that one of the Palms would not really be in a position to acccept new info and sync it. It could be come too confusing.
If we continue to look at how the standard hotsync works we need to know just where the time and date of the last HotSync info is held in the Palm. If that file could be transfered..??
I am still thinking and I have put the "Q" to some developers.
Doc
PS: Too bad about no Briggs in your tree. He was a neat fellow. Met him in the late fifties, as I recall Lime Rock. My memory has been corrupted by work I fear.

[Mason]

Gentlemen,

I believe I have a similar requirement, and will be happy to share my solution with you. If you are doing live updates to the PDA's and computer the conflict possibility matrix gets rather large, so, Cunningham please tell me:

1. Can you control the timing of updates to the databases on PDA's and computer?

2. Do you make updates on both PDA's?

3. If answer to above is yes, what is your conflict resolution hierarchy? (I.e. If you changed the same field on both PDA's, which one is to be accepted as correct; PDA1 or PDA2?)

4. Do you make updates to computer copy of the database?

5. If answer to above is yes, what is your conflict resolution hierarchy? (I.e. If you changed the same field on a PDA and the computer, which one is to be accepted as correct; PDA or computer?)

If the answers to either question 3 or 5 is "It depends..." then you may have trouble automating this requirement by synching only.

Mason

[DrMud]

As Mason so clearly states the issue is the heirarchy. As I stated in my earlier post "it could become too confusing." Simply trying to keep track of who went last.
THree heads are better that two! Do I hear another voice?
Doc

[CUNNINGHAM]

Mason and DrMud-

I'm almost getting optimistic again.

Answers to Mason's questions are:
1) Updates are made unpredictably, as required, throughout the day.
2) Updates are made on both PDAs
3) If there are competing updates, the most recent entry should tbe accepted.
4) No updates are made through the desktop computer,which acts primarily as backup for the pdas.
I have used the desktop occassionally to edit and condense the database, and to import additional entries.

Thanks for your help,
Cunningham

[Mason]

Cunningham,

Since you are not normally updating via the computer and already sync both PDA's with the same computer, you already have the environment in place. I propose the following method, and respectfully ask that Doc review it for accuracy. I believe this method is simple and will synchronize all four copies or your database.

Before beginning, I will define a few terms as I use them:

PDAx - Physical handheld device and it's databases.
USERx - Directory structure for databases on the computer.
DESKTOP - computer/handheld interface application. Represents the databases of all USERs.

Here is the method:
[list=1]
Sync PDA1 with the desktop. Result: PDA1 and USER1 are in sync, desktop is out of sync with itself.

On the desktop: COPY (with replace) USER1 database to USER2. Result: desktop is in sync with itself and represents the contents of PDA1.

Sync PDA2 with the desktop. Result: PDA2 and USER2 are in sync and represent the final state, desktop is out of sync with itself.

On the desktop: COPY (with replace) USER2 database to USER1. Result: desktop is in sync with itself and represents the final state.

Sync PDA1 with the desktop. (For absolute certainty, set the sync so that the desktop overwrites the handheld.) Result: PDA1 and USER1 are in sync, and PDA1 represents the final state.
[/list=1]
At this time all four copies of the database are in sync and represent the latest update of any datum.

The copies done on the computer will always be the same so they could be automated for safety and convenience with BAT files. If there is something you wish to manually modify in all databases, do it to the USER1 database after the sync in Step1

Hope this accomplishes you requirement.

Mason Love

[DrMud]

I Like the plan that Mason has formulated for implementing a standardized procedure. For me personally I would surely mess up the sequence as I tend to work at a very high speed and my intuition gets under my feet a bit like an aberrant banana peal.
Doc

[CUNNINGHAM]

Mason and DrMud,

Thank you both for your time and effort.

I'm not nearly as competent as I look: Just a review of the process and a couple questions and I'm out of your hair.

A-What initial sync settings do you suggest??
B-sync palm1 to its own desktop database1,

C-Exactly which d/t1 files do I copy to d/t2?

D-Use the same synch settings as in "B"??
E-sync palm2 to d/t2,

F-Exactly which d/t2 files do I copy to d/t1??

G-(set synch to desktop over palm)
H-sync palm1 to d/t1

Again, thanks

Cunningham

[Mason]

Cunningham & Doc,

Do not worry about asking more questions if you do not understand my answers, Cunningham, I am happy to assist.

Remember, there are only five steps and you will do the steps in the same order whenever you wish to synchronize your databases. To review, here are the steps again:


Sync PDA1
Copy USER1's database to USER2
Sync PDA2 (This action emulates a PDA-to-PDA sync with your live data.)
Copy USER2's database to USER1
Overwrite PDA1 with USER1


Here are the answers to your questions, however, for file names, I will have to defer to Doc, as I use Japanese software and my file names are Japanese.



For sync's in steps 1 and 3, use "synchronize files" setting.

Yes, sync PDA1 to it's own database.

Assuming that both PDA's sync to the same desktop, you should find a file structure something like this: C:\Program Files\??\??\USERx\database name. You should find two structures like this where USERx represents the name assigned to each PDA at initialization. There may be more directory levels represented by ??. Doc, please help here. On the first copy, you replace USER2's database with USER1's.

Correct.

Sync PDA2 to it's own database (which now represents the contents of PDA1 because of the copy.)

On the second copy you will replace USER1's database with USER2's. (Opposite of first copy.)

Correct.

Correct.


One important thing to remember, once you begin this process in production mode, you must do ALL steps each time you start, or to use the official IBM terminology, "results may be unpredictable." I do something very similar to this and it takes about 1 minute for all five steps.

Good luck, and if you have more questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Mason

[DrMud]

Cunningham,
I finally heard back from my code oriented friends and "no go." Here is a quote: "But, it's surely not going to work to have two devices with the same HotSync name syncing to the same PC."
That seems to be the bottom line.
Doc

Mason,
Thanks for all the support; your logical approach is a pleasure to see.
Doc

[CUNNINGHAM]

Mason & DrMud,

You two have obviously helped a lot. Mason's process not only eliminated time spent looking for non-existant software, but also recovery from my inevitably having done something stupid.

At this point, I understand perfectly the need to reset conduit action on datebook, addressbook, memo and to-do from "synchronize" to "computer overrides handheld" on that last sync.

The only thing left is to define exactly which files I need to copy back and forth between d/b1 and d/b2.

Drilling down my file stucture: "program files" holds "Sony handheld", containing "palm1" and "palm2", each with 9 subfiles--address, archive, backup, datebook, expense, install, mail, mempad and to-do.

Which of these nine are to be moved?

Cunningham

[little-man]

I just realized, if you make both palms have the same user name and use an app called PalmName to give them the same ID number, you could have them both sync to the same username. THis way they would be exactly the same.

[DrMud]

Little-Man,
Actually we have been avoiding doing just what you suggest. The problem is that if you have two Palms with the same ID after they have had one HotSync they now each have the same ID but a different time/date stored on them. That time/date is used in the next hotsync to set priorities. Sad to say that when you sync two Palms with the same idea you get corrupted data bases.
Doc

[Mason]

Cunningham, which software applications does your requirement use? Did you install an add-on application, or are you using the Palm basic applications?

It is only the database file for the application(s) which you wish to 4-way synchronize that you will copy.

Mason

[CUNNINGHAM]

Mason-
I clearly should have given you that info earlier.

I use "Action Names" (now "Agendus") which sits atop the native addressbook and calender. And I use Palm's memo and to-do functions. I've added "Minicalc" and "Minichart", plus "Only Me" for password security.

While the addressbook, datebook, memo and to-do files are pretty obvious candidates for transfer, I'm not sure which of the other five are involved.

Cunningham

[Mason]

Hi Cunningham,

I am a mainframe operating system software designer (green screen / gray hair,) and take a very conservative approach to software changes.

Assuming that you already have important data in your PDA's, before beginning anything, hot-sync both PDA's as normal and take a backup of all the directories and files under each user. Hide these backups from normal operation by putting them under a different mid-level directory. In the event of undesirable results you can always retrieve these backups. (Depending on what has happened, you may have corrupted both your current and backup copies.)

Put your copy commands in BAT files to reduce the chances of typing errors and save time. You will work only with the databases (*.dat files) belonging to the applications in which you wish to 4-way sync. Do not move or edit any of the other files on you desktop. By copying the files, you are getting around the problems that Little Man and Doc are talking about above. Do not touch the .BAK files!

I suggest you experiment with one application only at first to test your technique. When you are certain that you are getting the desired results, add the other applications one at a time and test them.

Mason

[CUNNINGHAM]

Mason,
I'd be happy to still have hair of any color.

Your recommedations are clear and sensible- I'm sure they'll work. Thanks to you and DrMud for all the help.

Cunningham

[Mason]

Cunningham,

I am happy to help. I believe you have everything you need to proceed in this thread now. If not, please ask. Here are some testing suggestions. These should cover all the possible combinations you will encounter in a 4-way sync. Do each test independently and verify the results. For each test, do all five steps and check the results on both PDA's when the five steps are complete.


Add a new record to PDA1 only. Results: Record should appear on both PDA's.
Add a new record to PDA2 only. Results: Record should appear on both PDA's.

Modify an existing record on PDA1 only. Results: Modifications should appear on both PDA's.
Repeat for PDA2.

Delete a record from PDA1 only. Results: Record should be deleted from both PDA's.
Repeat for PDA2.

Add a new record to both PDA's. Results: Both new records should appear on both PDA's.
Delete a record from both PDA's. Results: Both deleted records should be deleted from both PDA's.

Add a new record to PDA1 and delete a record from PDA2. Results: Appropriate records should be added/deleted in both PDA's.

Check the state of your sanity.
Repeat above steps for multiple records.


Let me know how it goes.

Mason

[CUNNINGHAM]

Mason,

Remarkable. Not only did you create and document a process that solves my problem, but you've provided an elaborate quality control protocol.

Thanks for the thought you put into this, and for the time you've taken.

Actually I started using the new pda day before yesterday, then used your process to sync them last night. Went without a hitch, though not all your testing steps would have been covered. I'll finish your suggested tests tonight, and let you know if there's a problem.

I have a strong hunch there won't be.

Luke Cunningham

[Mason]

Luke,

Omeditou! (congratulations) I am pleased to hear that my method fulfills your requirement and is working. Have you done all the testing yet? To paraphrase a famous architect from your city, The devil is in the details.

One last thing: If you run into trouble during a 4-way sync, you probably can recover your previous data using the *.BAK files. However, they will only be valid for one cycle, so do your recovery right away.

Mason

[CUNNINGHAM]

Mason-

Tests are complete. Like butter.

Mies may have borrowed that from Twain's "Connecticut Yankee ..."-- The money's in the details.

Luke