ARRGH!!!! I just had to do a FN hard reset and lost all of my data!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lethalsvt]

I just lost over 250MB of information on my damn unit!!! ALL BECAUSE OF QUICKOFFICE!!!!! The program completely wrecked my palm!!!!
Ok...now that this will NEVER happen again. I have a couple of questions..

One...WHAT is a RMA?

Two..Is their a backup program that will backup EVERYTHING, and i mean EVERYTHING on my garmin?? (Maps, saved preferences, programs, unsaved preferences, card info, etc etc).

Please let me know how to avoid this in the future...in other words, so I can be worry free!

[AlanJ]

1. RMA is a code/serial/number given to you by Garmin when you need to return your unit to them for a repair job. If you have a major fault and your unit is still in Warantee, you phone up suport and they will let you know if the unit needs to be returned or not.

2. You need Backup Man or Backup Buddy, people on here are split in choice between them both, so I guess its down to the individual. You cannot however, backup your maps because they will already be on your SD card and you will also have them on your City Select CD, everything else will be backed up to the SD card, from where you can re-install the whole lot.
Backup Buddy ONLY backsup the the SD card, whereas Backup man also backs up to your PC. I dont quite see the point of this because if you are away and something drastic happens that requires a full restore of your Data, then its no good being on the PC.....lol

It was the FIRST app I installed and Im surprised its not on every one's list of MUST have Apps. Another is Uninstall Manager and a good File Manager, FileZ is Free.

[apersson850]

Yet another is CardBackup. It also backs up internal iQue memory to the card.
If you don't do something very silly, the card will keep its content, even if you sweep the internal RAM.
Just to prevent silliness, I usually make my backups to a spare card, which I don't have installed in the iQue normally. Thus, even if the iQue would get really sadistic, and destroy everything on the card as well, it can hardly reach the card that's not installed...

[AlanJ]

Thanks for reminding me Anders, like you I have a 'Spare Backup Card' which I use like you, I havent backed that up in a while...Duh....

[AlanJ]

Originally posted by lethalsvt
I just lost over 250MB of information on my damn unit!!! ALL BECAUSE OF QUICKOFFICE!!!!! The program completely wrecked my palm!!!

I'm a tad lost with this :rolleyes:

The internal memory of an Ique3600 is 32 meg, so even if you did a hard reset and went back to factory settings, the max ammount of data you would lose would be what you installed on your unit not on your card...... You could not lose 250 Meg unless the card is also FUBAR and I doubt that happened on a hard reset.
Could you confirm to us, just for interest how you did (If you in fact did) lose 250 Megs of Data?????

[sammypooodle]

Did you ever try a warm reset? This will sometimes allow the system to boot without loading applications. Then you can delete the errant application, do a reset again and not lose any information. Save me a few times.

From Garmin site:Warm Reset - Also referred to as an extensions off reset or a no-notify reset. This reset is useful if an errant piece of software has your device stuck in a reset loop. Bypasses any system extensions. Once you delete the problem program, perform a soft reset to return your device to normal.
To perform, press the reset button while holding the scroll-up button. Release when the Palm Powered logo appears.

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by AlanJ


2. You need Backup Man or Backup Buddy, people on here are split in choice between them both, so I guess its down to the individual. You cannot however, backup your maps because they will already be on your SD card and you will also have them on your City Select CD, everything else will be backed up to the SD card, from where you can re-install the whole lot.
Backup Buddy ONLY backsup the the SD card, whereas Backup man also backs up to your PC. I dont quite see the point of this because if you are away and something drastic happens that requires a full restore of your Data, then its no good being on the PC.....lol A bit of a correction, Alan. BackupMan only backs up what's in internal memory onto the card. BackupBuddy is a complete Palm backup program that will backup both the Palm internal memory and the SD card to the PC. BackupBuddy VFS is the program to install on your iQue to backup internal memory to the SD card so you can recover from a hard reset. It's part of the full BackupBuddy installation, I still use the PC component to keep complete backups on my PC.

I use BackupMan on the iQue, though, it's the cheapest (besides free) at $10 and worth every penny. I did use BackupBuddyVFS for awhile, but it didn't do a complete, absolute restore when I needed it (I lost some registration numbers so third party programs wouldn't run until I re-registered them, not something you want to have happen on the road, although I've got copies of all of my reg numbers in a database in HanDBase). As I've said before, BackupMan's da man! :)

[rocket666]

Ditto on BackupMan.

To backup my SD, I now use card export II.

Run it on the iQue, open M: on the pc, drag and drop 6 folders onto a folder in my hard disk. If I am in a hurry, I skip the Audio folder. At $15, this is almost as much of a bargain as BackupMan, and worth every penny also.

[RVRodie]

Every time I hear one of these stories I find myself humming Elton John's "Rocket Man". The $10 for BackupMan gets really cheap when you get an unexpected hard reset away from the PC.

[lethalsvt]

Wasnt as bad as I thought...I kind of overreacted, but I did lose alot of important data (like 100+ passwords in my Top Secret program!! uggh)
I want to get a backup program and have been looking at a few. I'd like to get one that will backup EVERYTHING from my Ique to the desktop pc. So that no data or preferences will be lost...and no databases from 3rd part programs will be erased. Obviously, I need a program that will backup the internal AS WELL AS external memory.
Basically...one click hotsync and everything is back 100%. Is this even possible? (Reason I ask is, I see people have more than one backup program...cardexport, backup buddy, backing up to external card...etc.)

[AlanJ]

Originally posted by lethalsvt
Wasnt as bad as I thought...I kind of overreacted, but I did lose alot of important data (like 100+ passwords in my Top Secret program!! uggh)
I want to get a backup program and have been looking at a few. I'd like to get one that will backup EVERYTHING from my Ique to the desktop pc. So that no data or preferences will be lost...and no databases from 3rd part programs will be erased. Obviously, I need a program that will backup the internal AS WELL AS external memory.
Basically...one click hotsync and everything is back 100%. Is this even possible? (Reason I ask is, I see people have more than one backup program...cardexport, backup buddy, backing up to external card...etc.)


there is a thread on here(Search).. which is quite long and people opt for which one they prefer and why, but I m not sure if you are gonna get what you want 100%... I use BackupBuddy, that does backup everything, but not to the PC, it backsup to your SD card, which IMHO is the best place for it to be anyway...

[lethalsvt]

http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=software.showsoftware&SID=FB6A682D-CF18-AC2E-74CDC0200A99A18C&PartnerREF=&prodID=566

Thats the link for the program Im looking at on palmgear. (Backup Buddy for Windows). It does backup to windows...or do you have a different version of the program??

It seems like this one, however pricey, backs up to the pc AND to the card. And you can edit the files as well in WIndows.

Anyone have any experience with this program?

Only problem I have backing up to the card, is say, you lose the Ique or it gets stolen. If you save EXTREMELY important files on your pda, such as me, then you would be screwed. It would be better to have the backup on a pc as well...so if you got a new pda you wouldnt be starting all over again.
Also, if the card gets corrupted then it would come in handy to have those sensitive files safe at home on a pc.

[AlanJ]

Ok...I have Backupbuddy, I've always used it in the VFS (Card Backup) mode, Ive just changed it (For you) and did a backup to my PC, I'm happy to report everything went just fine, Im not going to do a Hard Reset so I wont be able to tell you if it backed up everything, but looking in the backup folder it seems to have done, I'm now going to revert back to VFS which I much prefer.

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by lethalsvt
http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=software.showsoftware&SID=FB6A682D-CF18-AC2E-74CDC0200A99A18C&PartnerREF=&prodID=566

Thats the link for the program Im looking at on palmgear. (Backup Buddy for Windows). It does backup to windows...or do you have a different version of the program??

It seems like this one, however pricey, backs up to the pc AND to the card. And you can edit the files as well in WIndows.

Anyone have any experience with this program?

Only problem I have backing up to the card, is say, you lose the Ique or it gets stolen. If you save EXTREMELY important files on your pda, such as me, then you would be screwed. It would be better to have the backup on a pc as well...so if you got a new pda you wouldnt be starting all over again.
Also, if the card gets corrupted then it would come in handy to have those sensitive files safe at home on a pc. That is exactly the program I posted to you about a few posts up the thread. Yes, it's a bit pricey, but it backs up everything, and restores everything, from the PC. I don't like their card backup program (BackupBuddy VFS) and prefer to use BackupMan. A bit confusing, I know. Just think BackupBuddy on the PC and BackupMan on the iQue. You'll have a killer backup combo that way.

[lethalsvt]

Thanks for the help. I think I'm going to try backup buddy and hopefully will like the VFS program. If not, I'll take a look at backup man. But since I like to keep the price to a minimum (already spent around 100 or so on pal programs yesterday) and as simple as possible, I hope backup buddy will do it all.

[AlanJ]

Originally posted by reinbeau
That is exactly the program I posted to you about a few posts up the thread. Yes, it's a bit pricey, but it backs up everything, and restores everything, from the PC. I don't like their card backup program (BackupBuddy VFS) and prefer to use BackupMan. A bit confusing, I know. Just think BackupBuddy on the PC and BackupMan on the iQue. You'll have a killer backup combo that way.

Backupbuddy will also do the VFS bit and backup to the card as well as backing up to the PC, so you have both in one so to speak.

[holycatz]

This subject and comments makes me wonder just what a hot-sync does/doesn't do, regarding data preservation and restoration. The 'back-up to the card' I just did (thanks to this thread) makes a lot of sense for out of town, 'field failures', but with hot-sync access to your home base PC, what additional safety does the separate 'back up' provide? Thanks.

[Glenn Robertson]

This subject and comments makes me wonder just what a hot-sync does/doesn't do, regarding data preservation and restoration.

Hot-sync is intended to synchronize information in you iQue with information on your PC. This information can be used to restore an iQue but since that is not its primary purpose, some data does not get restored.

Backup programs (i.e., BackupMan) are designed to backup all data on your iQue for the purpose of restoration. Different backup programs may have different feature (full backup, incremental backup, scheduling, imaging, encryption) and the individual must decide what features they require.

Hope this helps.

[AlanJ]

Originally posted by holycatz
This subject and comments makes me wonder just what a hot-sync does/doesn't do, regarding data preservation and restoration. The 'back-up to the card' I just did (thanks to this thread) makes a lot of sense for out of town, 'field failures', but with hot-sync access to your home base PC, what additional safety does the separate 'back up' provide? Thanks.

None that I can see or understand, I backup to a spare SD card which I always have with me, I also backup to the main SD card in my palm, so no matter what I always have access to a full restore, quite why I would want one on my PC is beyond me thats why I use the VFS feature of Backupbuddy.

[holycatz]

<....some data does not get restored.>
Thanks Glenn. I wonder what data gets ignored/not restored? I know that with Betty's OS update, for example, a ‘pre’ hot-sync is required by the instructions, then some degree** of hard reset is performed. After the upgrade is complete, another hot-sync is done. The implication is that FULL restore is assured after the last hot-sync. I never noticed anything missing, after one of these memory wipes.

**still not clear on how many different ones of these there are, depending on which buttons are depressed/held during a reset

[donc13]

Originally posted by Glenn Robertson
Hot-sync is intended to synchronize information in you iQue with information on your PC. This information can be used to restore an iQue but since that is not its primary purpose, some data does not get restored.

Backup programs (i.e., BackupMan) are designed to backup all data on your iQue for the purpose of restoration. Different backup programs may have different feature (full backup, incremental backup, scheduling, imaging, encryption) and the individual must decide what features they require.

Hope this helps.

I'd beg to differ with you on that. The only thing I've ever seen "missing" from a hot-sync is your security settings and some passwords. It may also not backup things like "what page you were on" for programs like eReader and the like. Not sure about that. I do know that it doesn't backup the password for ebooks, but you only have to enter that once and you're good to go until next hard reset (many, many months now with no resets at all, let alone a hard reset). In that particular case, it prevents you from taking your eReader backup and books and passing them on to others. You have to re-enter them after a hard reset. Since your password is your credit card number and name...it's pretty effective in preventing you from passing the password around <grin>!

It is intended for both syncronization and backup. It is not just a syncronization program. That's why Palm/Garmin require you to do a hot sync before an OS upgrade and a restore afterwards.

The one thing I do dislike about hot-sync is the lack of backup of your security password. If you ever forget your password, it's a piece of cake to "fix" things....do a backup, hard reset and then a restore. Your password will revert to no password and all your "secret" or supposedly secure records are now available to look at with no password.

But, on the other hand, should you ever forget your password, at least using that procedures, you haven't lost your records.

[waltisimo]

Hotsync as a backup works fine if you don't use a lot of 3rd party software on your Palm. The backup conduit takes care of the applications, but then leaves the data for those applications up to the application itself. The idea being that the 3rd party application might have it's own conduit backing up the data, so an additional copy from the backup conduit would probably screw things up. For many applications this approach isn't a problem. For others, it is. Games for instance don't take the time to worry about getting their level files and settings backed up through the backup conduit, and so may not work after restoring from Hotsync.

Programs like BackupBuddy, BackupMan, and CardBackup take a different approach. They backup everything from internal memory not caring if it's an application or data. Since they work outside the hotsync process they can get away with this. No data files get skipped because their owner didn't worry about the backup conduit.

Having said all of this, there is another reason why I can never rely on Hotsync for backup. I try out a lot of software and games on my palm. I load up all kinds of stuff, try it out for a while, and then delete it off the palm. When I look in my backup folder made by Hotsync I see all of those things that were installed and then deleted. No way do I want all of that trying to come back during a Hotsync restore. It probably wouldn't even all fit! And I don't like having to remember to delete things twice, once on the palm and once out of the backup folder on my computer.

[rocket666]

Restoring a system on top of a running system is always a tricky task. I'm not sure how these backup programs (that backup/restore to SD) do a restore, and in fact there have been reports that some haven't worked correctly just when they were needed. This highlights the need to use a backup program you can trust, even if not the most convenient to use.

For this reason, I like to have more than one backup/restore choice. In the event one fails, I have a backup to my backup. There's nothing worse than the sinking feeling you get when a restore fails.

Given the traveling use of the Q, one also needs a backup in the "field" when you are away from your PC.

But one nice bonus is that if you backup your SD card after doing a backup of internal TO the SD card, you end up with a backup of both on the PC. To restore, one would re-load a new SD card, do a hard reset with the new SD card and run your restore from SD to internal w/o disturbing any files on the PC. Then if this failed, you could still fallback to doing the hard reset/sync.

[donc13]

Originally posted by waltisimo
Hotsync as a backup works fine if you don't use a lot of 3rd party software on your Palm. The backup conduit takes care of the applications, but then leaves the data for those applications up to the application itself. The idea being that the 3rd party application might have it's own conduit backing up the data, so an additional copy from the backup conduit would probably screw things up. For many applications this approach isn't a problem. For others, it is. Games for instance don't take the time to worry about getting their level files and settings backed up through the backup conduit, and so may not work after restoring from Hotsync.

Programs like BackupBuddy, BackupMan, and CardBackup take a different approach. They backup everything from internal memory not caring if it's an application or data. Since they work outside the hotsync process they can get away with this. No data files get skipped because their owner didn't worry about the backup conduit.

Having said all of this, there is another reason why I can never rely on Hotsync for backup. I try out a lot of software and games on my palm. I load up all kinds of stuff, try it out for a while, and then delete it off the palm. When I look in my backup folder made by Hotsync I see all of those things that were installed and then deleted. No way do I want all of that trying to come back during a Hotsync restore. It probably wouldn't even all fit! And I don't like having to remember to delete things twice, once on the palm and once out of the backup folder on my computer.

Those deleted files don't stay in my backup folder on my pc, they get moved by hot-sync into the archive folder. Sounds like you're not deleting apps via the program or launcher, but by some other method so they're not marked as 'deleted' and moved to the archive folder.

Look in your hot-sync log. For example, the other day, I deleted TealDoc and the log show this:

-- The database for TealDoc.PRC was deleted on the handheld. Moving the backup to the Archive folder.
-- The database for TealDoc_Demo_Document.PDB was deleted on the handheld. Moving the backup to the Archive folder.
-- The database for TealDoc_File_Extensions.PDB was deleted on the handheld. Moving the backup to the Archive folder.
-- The database for TealDoc_Manual.PDB was deleted on the handheld. Moving the backup to the Archive folder.

[waltisimo]

Aha! That explains a lot. Most of the time I don't delete via the launcher.I use a file manager. Thanks for setting the record straight. Well, I'm glad Hotsync works well for others.

[lethalsvt]

I pretty much tried and downloaded every single backup program from palmgear (a lenghty process, but wanted the BEST one).
Well, I tried backupman, card backup backupbuddy (full, light and VFS backup) and came to the conclusion that BackupBuddy Complete (the full version) backed up every single thing on my palm...even including the last pages I was on, game levels, ALL databases and ALL preferences. It did this to my external card AND posted a FULL backup on my pc. So if I ever need a mobile backup, I have it. And if I ever need a desktop backup (if I lose the backup SD card, it gets corrupted/broken/etc), I can easily sync it with my pc and pick/choose MANY options at my disposal.
It is DEFINITELY the most complete, and I will even play devils advocate and say that backupman and cardbackup DO NOT COMPARE, and are BAD BACKUP programs compared to Backup Buddy.
I think you need to have both, extensive card backups for mobile use, and extensive desktop backups as a "backup to the backup".
And the fact that all of this is done in a very simple manner (BOTH backups done to the card and pc during a regular hotsync) makes it even better.
So I figured I would help people like me choose which program is the ultimate BEST. I am the type of person, who If I am going to spend money, I want to make sure every penny is spent to its full potential. I wanted the best, and got the best with Backup Buddy.

Off subject, but other paid programs that I thoroughly tested and recommend:

QuickOffice Premier
Ultrasoft Money
Resco Viewer
Uninstall Manager
Pocket Tunes Deluxe
TripDelux (for people who NEED accurate and easy automobile mileage reporting/entry).

[reinbeau]

I used both BackupMan and BackupBuddy (I have a license for both). Both backed up everything on my iQue. However, both didn't restore equally. BackupBuddy's restore didn't fully restore some of my third party registrations and some of the databases. BackupMan did a full, complete restore. YMMV, I guess.

[lethalsvt]

I see your reason why here (just asked why you didnt like Bbuddy in another post).
Thats too bad. I've had nothing but great luck with it. To each his own I guess

[Curious Cat]

Ann is not the only one. Myself and a couple others have also had problems with restoring when using BackupBuddy.