Time to thrash this old horse (unlock codes) again?

[Bokkie]

I've reformatted my spare drive and I'm in the process of installing everything from scratch. That includes the maps. So, I go through the process of installing the ique software and get to the crunch where you install the detailed maps. Insert the CS6 upgrade cd and it immediately tells me that I have no previously installed maps. This is where the dumb-ass problem begins.

1. CS6 upgrade is a full replacement for CS5?

2. CS6 upgrade should not need CS5 to be installed.

3. If you can't use CS6 without an unlock code, then what the heck does it need CS5 for anyway?

4. If it transfers the code from CS5 (not sure if it does) then the install should give the option. It seems really stupid to force users to double up the amount of disk space. I can't think of any salient reason why you'd want to use CS5 and CS6 as I can't see CS6 being a backward step?

All in all a real mess. Have Garmin gone and messed this up do you think and they did no more than introduce a problem when a solution was called for?

Fortunately, my CS6 that came with the cfque is a full product so there is no need to install CS5 beforehand.

Rant over.

[donc13]

Originally posted by Bokkie
I've reformatted my spare drive and I'm in the process of installing everything from scratch. That includes the maps. So, I go through the process of installing the ique software and get to the crunch where you install the detailed maps. Insert the CS6 upgrade cd and it immediately tells me that I have no previously installed maps. This is where the dumb-ass problem begins.

1. CS6 upgrade is a full replacement for CS5?

2. CS6 upgrade should not need CS5 to be installed.

3. If you can't use CS6 without an unlock code, then what the heck does it need CS5 for anyway?

4. If it transfers the code from CS5 (not sure if it does) then the install should give the option. It seems really stupid to force users to double up the amount of disk space. I can't think of any salient reason why you'd want to use CS5 and CS6 as I can't see CS6 being a backward step?

All in all a real mess. Have Garmin gone and messed this up do you think and they did no more than introduce a problem when a solution was called for?

Fortunately, my CS6 that came with the cfque is a full product so there is no need to install CS5 beforehand.

Rant over.

Ah, but as I'm sure you know, the difference between the upgrade and the full version of CS6 is the cost. One costs twice what the other does. The full version comes with a registration code whereas the upgrade Cd itself costs nothing (at least here in the US) and you only get charged when you go unlock it. Thus, if you don't have CS5 installed, you can't install CS6 upgrade and thus can't unlock it.

The side effect, is it's a pain in the butt, but once you have CS6 installed, you can remove CS 5. You'll have to 're-install" CS6 (go through the menu item install wizard and REPAIR the installation) but once you've done that...all is well.

[Bokkie]

Originally posted by donc13
Ah, but as I'm sure you know, the difference between the upgrade and the full version of CS6 is the cost. One costs twice what the other does. The full version comes with a registration code whereas the upgrade Cd itself costs nothing (at least here in the US) and you only get charged when you go unlock it. Thus, if you don't have CS5 installed, you can't install CS6 upgrade and thus can't unlock it.

The side effect, is it's a pain in the butt, but once you have CS6 installed, you can remove CS 5. You'll have to 're-install" CS6 (go through the menu item install wizard and REPAIR the installation) but once you've done that...all is well.

A pain it is. The cds cost next to nothing to manufacture and the cost is in the unlock code. Without it, the cds are useless. I'm still puzzled why they need to force a CS5 install. Smart installation packages give you the option where to find the original product, and many let you choose, or prompt you, to install the original cd as part of the validation process.

Badly done Garmin, badly done!

[Holgado]

Oh dear Bokkie, how many times we have said, told, and so on, that you have to have the original version of the maps and after an update you would not clear the original version, you can indeed delete the img maps for clearing space on your PC, but not the soft.
So, you got to install first the original version of CS5 and then the update.
I know it is really a boredom situation but think of Garmin and its assurance to keep its soft clear of pirates.

[donc13]

Originally posted by Holgado
Oh dear Bokkie, how many times we have said, told, and so on, that you have to have the original version of the maps and after an update you would not clear the original version, you can indeed delete the img maps for clearing space on your PC, but not the soft.
So, you got to install first the original version of CS5 and then the update.
I know it is really a boredom situation but think of Garmin and its assurance to keep its soft clear of pirates.

No, you do not need to keep the original CS5 software. You can remove it just fine. Once you remove it, go back to the installation wizard for CS6 and tell it to repair the installation and once you do that...it works fine by itself.

[Holgado]

OK, it is another option.

[dtlee]

Sorry to take this thread off topic, but it reminded me of the last time I upgraded Microsoft Project. I had Windows 98 and MS Project 98 (which was the upgraded from MS Project 4 which was in turn upgraded from MS Project 3). When I upgraded to XP, it told me the version of MS Project I had was incompatible, so I deleted it. I purchased an upgrade to Microsoft Project and it would not install because the prior version was not there.

I called Microsoft. They wanted me to go back to Windows 98 and reinstall the version of Microsoft Project I had previously and then upgrade to XP and install the upgrade. I told them that the Version I used in Windows 98 was also an upgrade and I wanted them to first assure me that I would not have to go all the way back to Version 3, because Version 3 was the original version and that had to be installed under Windows 3.1.

After consulting with their knowledgebase and other tech support for about 30 minutes, they could not guarantee that I would not have to go back to DOS 5 and Windows 3.1 to install the latest upgrade. Instead, they gave me a new serial number that would not look for the prior version. I was quite impressed that they were willing to save me from what would have certainly been a nightmare.

I think all upgrades should include an option to confirm eligibility with the original disks without forcing you to actually install from the original disks (though I am not 100% positive in what box my MS Project 3.0 floppies are).

[Bokkie]

Originally posted by donc13
No, you do not need to keep the original CS5 software. You can remove it just fine. Once you remove it, go back to the installation wizard for CS6 and tell it to repair the installation and once you do that...it works fine by itself.

Donc, removing CS5 is not the problem as I've done that before. I think the issue should be controlled and managed by the installation program as an optional feature. At the moment, it is a draconian action that offers no advantage. As I say, at least the cfque has full CS6 installation control, so my problem is solved.

I still believe Garmin should implement the best practices employed by other software installation packages. This is one area where MS are generally very good.;)

[jonasolof]

Looking in my GARMIN folder, I notice that there isn't any product.tdb file i the EUROCS6 folder. It is the GARMIN folder by the name of eurocsv6, together with the eurocsv5 which happened to be left over when I deleted the version 5 img files after having installed v 6. Seems lika that the fact that they are both present doesn't cause any conflict. But the eurocsv5 is 320 KB so it does take some room.

So for garmin topomaps the tdb file is contained within the family folder whereas for City select the tdb file is in the GARMIN folder itself.

So what happens if I add North America Citry select? will there be two tdb files in the GARMIN folder then?

[apersson850]

Since you could get the opposite impression, by reading carefully in this thread, I'd like to point out that a code, that works with CS 5 and iQue A will neither work with CS 5 and iQue B, nor with CS 6 and iQue A (or any other iQue, for that matter).

So if you have one iQue, with CS 5 and the appropriate code, you need a new code if you upgrade to CS 6.

[Ken in Regina]

Anders, you've summed it up well. I think your last statement is what is bugging everyone. Seems to me that once I've got an unlock code it should continue to work for "update" disks for that product, instead of having to mess around getting Yet Another Unlock Code. With "proof" that you own the base product, of course .. eg. insert original CD, etc. during installation, as someone already said.

You should only require a new unlock code if you get a genuinely new product.

But you already knew that. I just had to get it off my chest. :rolleyes:

[apersson850]

When you use a map product on your computer, with Mapsource or something, I can understand how that would work.
But how would your iQue know if you purchased a certain map product as an upgrade or as a stand-alone product?

Yes, yes, I know that could be arranged, in theory, but without messing this whole scheme up even more? Especially considering that nothing says you can't use an upgraded product on one computer and a stand-alone on another, even to the same target GPS. May not be very common, but should also work, of course.

I think your principle would create even more of a hassle than what we have today.

[Ken in Regina]

Anders, why would the iQue need to know about the difference between a new product and an upgraded product?

Seems to me the only thing that needs to know is the install utility on the PC.

There are a bazillion pieces of software out there that allow you to simply install upgrades right over the previous version, once you install them and "unlock" them with whatever code the developer provides. You never have to provide the code after the initial install of the first installed version.

For instance, I paid for Winzip back around version 6.0. I'm up to about version 9, I think, and each release just checks the registry for a legitimate registration code and then upgrades itself. Same with CuteFTP (as long as I stay with the same product, eg. Standard versus Pro), ZoneAlarm and others I've had for a long time.

Still curious how the iQue gets involved .. ?

[apersson850]

Assume you have CS 4. You then use a CS 5 upgrade on your computer. So this CS 5 has to masquerade as CS 4 when uploaded to the iQue. Then you get CS 6. You can upgrade again, since you have CS 5 before. But really, you had CS 4 as a stand-alone product, so this CS 6 still has to pretend it's a CS 4.
Now, assume I have the same thing. But in my eternal wisdom, and to save some space, I've deleted the CS 4 installation, after upgrading to CS 5. I can still upgrade to CS 6, since I have CS 5, but I don't have any CS 4, for which the code originally was intended, to lean back on.
So now this map installer has to keep track of what you did have, but don't have anymore, to install what you want to have, and are entitled to, but don't really have a code for.
It's not impossible, of course, but...

Now you get yourself a 60CS, and want to use your CS 6 maps with that one too. With todays procedure, you get your second code, and that's it. But with your system, you have to get a new code for a CS 4, which you don't have any longer, so that you can upload the CS 6 you really want to use in that new receiver.

I'm not saying that you can't keep track of all these historical codes, but don't you think it will be more hysterical than the procedure they rely on today?
Don't forget that this is not just about an upgrade on the PC. It must fit all other possible receivers you want to unlock for as well.

The best thing would have been using no codes at all, but unfortunately not everyone is honest.

[Ken in Regina]

Anders, any programmer who codes something like you just described should be shot. And then immediately fired. And then deported.

The product is (for instance) City Select - North America. Which "release" or "version" is irrelevant.

All the PC install utility and the iQue need to know is that you are a legitimate, paid-up user of City Select - North America. Both can do that by verifying that you have an unlock code for that product.

In the case of the install program it can verify at install and upgrade time by asking you to insert the distribution medium of your originally-purchased version, then [re]enter your unlock code. If they prove legitimate, just install the upgrade. This will work even if you are doing a re-install from the upgrade distribution medium.

In the case of the iQue, what does it do now when you download a mapset to it? As long as it is a City Select - North America mapset that you are downloading, it should just keep on doing whatever it does right now to verify that it's legit.

The key is that version 6.x or 4.x or 9.x of a product is not, and should not be treated as, a different product. Treating an upgrade release as if it were a completely different product is the reason we have the stupid upgrade process we have.