Que3600a Apps Available for non-Aviation Ques?

[f4phantomii]

Looking at the specs for the 3600a, it appears to me that it is simply a regular iQue3600 with increased memory capacity and beefier battery.

It looks like all you get additional with the 3600a is the Jeppesen database and some nice Aviation specific applications.

Knowing the cost of Jeppessen databases for other applications, I suspect it alone accounts for the vast majority of the cost difference (nearly double!) between the regular 3600 and the 3600a. Okay, Okay....the extra RAM/ROM accounts for $50 of the price difference.

Having said all that, does Garmin have plans afoot to offer the aviation specific applications to other Que owners as long as they don't require the Jepp database to work properly?

I know I'd like to use their aviation apps. Sure, there are other 3rd party aviation apps, but they cost nearly as much as the 3600a does, and Garmin seems to have proven themselves competent to produce other nice GPS-integrated Palm applications.

Cliff Notes: What, if anything, prevents the Garmin Aviation Apps bundled with the 3600a from running on the 3600?

-Michael

[JMckie]

Cliff Notes: What, if anything, prevents the Garmin Aviation Apps bundled with the 3600a from running on the 3600?

Garmin's marketing department?

[Chan Eil Fhios]

Originally posted by JMckie
Garmin's marketing department?

So sad...so true:(

[apersson850]

Applications like QueNav (compass screen), Weight & Balance and E6B would probably run just as well on a 3600.

But the major issues, QueMap and QueTerrain, both rely on the elevation, obstacle and Jeppesen data, so they aren't very useful without that.

From Garmin's point of view, this must be a bad idea, as far as I can understand. If you could run all 3600a applications on the 3600, who would then buy the 3600a?

QueNav is good for handheld navigation, and ought to be on the 3600 as well, since it's not only intended for in-car navigation. The other additions, not related to aviation, would be good too (custom routing, avoidance etc.).

The 3600a also has a brighter screen.

The larger flash memory allows the 3600a to hold the basemap and the voice files in internal flash. So you don't loose the voice on a hard reset. Nor do you have to use space on the card for the basemap.

The extra RAM gives the user 2.5 times the space, when the system has reserved what it wants, compared to the 3600.

[f4phantomii]

Originally posted by apersson850
Applications like QueNav (compass screen), Weight & Balance and E6B would probably run just as well on a 3600.

Those are the primary ones I'm interested in....particularly the latter two. Those would be handy indeed.



From Garmin's point of view, this must be a bad idea, as far as I can understand. If you could run all 3600a applications on the 3600, who would then buy the 3600a?


From my point of view, and my experience with other Jepp products, I still contend the vast majority of the cost difference is paying for the Jepp database, not the applications themselves. Standalone full Jepp databases can run into the thousands of dollars, so the 3600a is probably a good deal.

In my opinion, a 3600a purchaser is buying the database, not the applications. There are plenty of much less expensive gadgets (and some 3rd party palm apps!) that perform the same functions as the E6B and Weight and Balance.


So why not make them available to other Que owners like me that are pilots, but not serious enough to need the full Jepp database? I still carry and navigate using the standard aviation sectional chart...and my iQue is there to reassure me that I really am where I *think* I am. ;)


QueNav is good for handheld navigation, and ought to be on the 3600 as well, since it's not only intended for in-car navigation. The other additions, not related to aviation, would be good too (custom routing, avoidance etc.).


Again...it would be nice if Garmin made these apps available across the Que line provided the hardware supported the app.

Don't mean to vent on you Anders....just wondering...it would be nice to have them. I know other Garmin GPS databases freely available for download work on the iQue (Tide stations, etc), seemed like the Palm apps might fall under the same catagory.

-Michael

[apersson850]

But they are in flash memory in the 3600a, so I doubt you can just pull them out of there and run them on another platform.
Probably takes some tinkering by Garmin's programmers to make that feasible.

[f4phantomii]

Ahh...now I understand...thanks for the explanation.

-Michael

[apersson850]

Well, I have to do something to make you take the Swedish aircraft back, right? :D

Edit: I can see that it worked!! ;)

However, this is true for all the avionics applicaitons in the 3600a. The expanded flash memory (96MB) is used to hold more/expanded applications, Jeppesen data, elevation and obstacle data, regular automotive basemap and voice files, in addition to everything that goes there in a regular 3600.

Apart from the fact that the 3600a isn't supplied with City Select maps in the box, at least all you need to go flying with it is already inside. Plug-and-Pray.

[vectorman]

I still think it is about 20% too expensive. A reconditioned 196 or 296 would be a much better value for my money. And I agree, it's probably the Jeppesen database adding greatly to the cost. Jepp does nothing cheap.

I'd really like to try the 3600a, but it's too expensive for me to gamble on whether I'd like it or not. I suppose if a friend of mine locally were to buy it and I were to fly with them or borrow it and flight-test it myself, I'd be more inclined to pop for the big bucks if I really liked it.

[apersson850]

Well, Alaskaboy, if you just make a detour over here (you can have a pit stop on Iceland), then I'll be happy to lend you one to try it out!

We Swedes are a generous bunch of guys...

[f4phantomii]

I was going to add that I'd be willing to pay $75-$100 to buy the aviation apps from Garmin *without* the Jepp database.

I didn't realize the 3600a didn't come with CitySelect either....That tells me the Jepp database is hogging an even bigger share of the $1000+ price tag!

-Michael

[apersson850]

It does come with the aviation cradle (but I think the yoke mount is an option) and an external antenna, so there are a few things added, compared to the standard 3600.

[rwsmith123]

Originally posted by apersson850
But they are in flash memory in the 3600a, so I doubt you can just pull them out of there and run them on another platform.
Probably takes some tinkering by Garmin's programmers to make that feasible.

You might be able to. Being in flash memory has nothing to do with it. For example mathlib.prc is in flash on the iQue, but is just as happy being in the main memory. You could use files to copy QueNav from flash to memory, sync to get it on the computer, then load it on a regular iQue to see if it works. I would give it a 50/50 chance of working. The reason it might not run is if it is tightly coupled with a library and the library has enough changes from the 3600a to the 3600 to make it incompatable.

[apersson850]

Yes, I'm aware of that. I wasn't sure if you all were too.
However, the structure of non-volatile RAM isn't the same in the 3600a. NonVolUtil, which some of you have used on the 3600, doesn't run on the 3600a.
Since the GPS/Aviation software heavily interacts with the nonvol memory, I think the chances are smaller than you think.

[rwsmith123]

Only one way to find out for sure.....

Want to try it out?

[apersson850]

I tried five applications. Beaming them is no problem. But only one of them really work, and then it takes a plane to test it fully. Maybe when Michael comes over...

E6B: Runs, but the units are all funny characters.

Weight & Balance: Text and labels missing, funny results in the calculation.

Flights logbook: Shows a screen with an empty list all right. But it may not have the necessary interface to log any flights.

Terrain: White screen. No useful info at all.

Nav (compass/instrument panel): White screen, then locks up.

So it seems I was right. Does take some tinkering to get these apps to run on a 3600. Would actually be somewhat surprising if they really hadn't thought about that.

[f4phantomii]

Anders....I appreciate you giving it a whirl on the regular 3600.

At least now I won't lay awake at night pining away for those applications.

As for my trip over...it might be delayed awhile. The Cessna's and Piper's I fly are a bit short on range with not a lot of extra room for all the survival equipment I'd want flying over the North Atlantic.

If only I could convince my company to let me borrow one of the jets we make...our G550 has an unrefueled range of 6750 nautical miles....that should do it!

-Michael

[apersson850]

Tell them you need it to test its compatibility with one of Garmin's more recent aviation navigation units.
If that doesn't help, I'll call your boss. The next day you have either an aircraft or a piece of grey paper... :D

Is it gray or grey, or is that a US/UK thing too?

[Chan Eil Fhios]

We use either...but here it's pink rather than grey (we call them pink slips).

[rwsmith123]

Originally posted by apersson850
I tried five applications. Beaming them is no problem. But only one of them really work, and then it takes a plane to test it fully. Maybe when Michael comes over...

E6B: Runs, but the units are all funny characters.

Weight & Balance: Text and labels missing, funny results in the calculation.

Flights logbook: Shows a screen with an empty list all right. But it may not have the necessary interface to log any flights.

Terrain: White screen. No useful info at all.

Nav (compass/instrument panel): White screen, then locks up.

So it seems I was right. Does take some tinkering to get these apps to run on a 3600. Would actually be somewhat surprising if they really hadn't thought about that.

A while back I tried the R2 version of QueMap on an iQue with R3 in firmware. It did work, but some of the icons where wrong. That's what I meant about being tightly tied to a library. It sounds like at least the first few programs would work if you loaded the libraries as well. You could try loading QueLib and X2CLib.

[vectorman]

Anders, thanks for the invitation and for trying the apps. I had a hunch they wouldn't work.

It doesn't make good marketing sense to make the apps backward-compatible.

[crowl]

I would be happy if they stripped the 3600a of the aviation apps, reduced the price a lot, and sold it as a 3600 replacement.

The better screen, better battery life and increased memory would be a natural upgrade to the 3600.

But I'm not willing to pay a lot for the aviation stuff.

[apersson850]

Perhaps there will be such a unit in the future. I don't know, I have at least not heard anything about it.

[apersson850]

Has anyone of you fliers tried CoPilot (http://lauriedavis9.tripod.com/copilot/) and FlightMaster (http://www.palmflying.com/mininav.html) for palm units?
It provieds in some cases more functionality than the iQue 3600a. The back side is mainly the moving map, where the 3600a is tremendously better.
But you can run these programs on an ordinary 3600 as well.

[f4phantomii]

I've seen them, but not used them. I know a couple of people with more disposable income than I that have tried some of the much more expensive aviation applications that are in the $500 range. But for that much, I'd sell my iQue and get a 3600a.

CoPilot looks like a reasonable one for what you get.

FlightMaster looks interesting for navigation and is much cheaper than more robust moving map/chart apps I've seen.

But I think for my purposes, I'm just as happy navigating by the paper chart, and comparing terrain and roads I see with the features on the basic iQue map to verify I am where I *think* I am.

-Michael