Palm Life Drive just got a lot more real

[JMckie]

It is pretty convincing when PalmOne places the following information page (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009JMT38/103-6428669-3405416) on Amazon.com

According to the listing:
Intel 416MHz XScale processor
Portrait and landscape viewing
320x480 hi-resolution, color display
LifeDrive smart file management

Now, this page of pictures (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009JMT38/ref=e_de_a_smp/103-6428669-3405416?v=glance&s=electronics&vi=pictures&img=14#more-pictures) is hilarious. Many have noted that this would be a thick device. Notice how all of the pictures are carefully taken to not give any idea of the thickness. LOL.

[rkevwill]

JM,
You are so right:) We've all heard thicknesses from .75 to 1.125 or so. Who knows. Not quite sure why it would need to be real thick, as the same HD is put in the Ipod mini, and its not THAT thick! Time will tell. Lets hope Garmin makes that palm version GPS10 compatible with this thing.

Palm best get this unit right, or it could be another nail in their coffin. If its as slick as it appears it could be, they could have a real winner. If it has as many bugs as the Treo 650 did when it first came out, they are toast.

[JMckie]

Wishful thinking: maybe the extra thickness is for the battery? Maybe this thing will run for 6 hours straight. I for one, would happily trade of a few mm of thickness and an ounce or two for battery life.

[Moose Man]

I just looked and the dimensions were 6.5 X 6.5 X 4.0 in inches. This is definitely not a Pocket device if these hold up. :D

[rkevwill]

6.5 x 6.5? The Moose has definitely been in the Moosehead!

[JMckie]

I bet those are the shipping dimensions (in the box).

[Curious Cat]

Serious question: With relation to the small hard drive, I don't own an iPod but does anyone have any personal experience with dropping one or know somebody that did? I'm curious how durable the drive will be in the long run. I'm also thinking that a reset won't be the cure-all anymore with this type of device.

[rkevwill]

Cat, I don't own one either, kinda wish I did, but it would be just another thing to carry around. I use my treo 650 for MP3's daily, and my Ique sometimes when traveling in the car. Good question. I would think the SD cards would be a WHOLE lot more durable than the HD's.

Good marketing tactic though, as 4 1 gig cards right now would cost an average of $280 alone. Prices of those small HD's are coming down though, and so are the flash cards of course.

One would think that HD could be damaged in a drop, unless it has that motion seeking lock feature that some of the Laptops do. Is that asking for too much in such a small device at this price point?

If we ever get to the point that the GPS10 works with this (in full screen), I would think I would want to keep the maps on a card.

I wonder how backup buddy is gonna handle backing up 4 gigs of stuff, to what? LOL. Obviously one could simply back up the HD data to a computer HD.

[JMckie]

I did some calculations and you could carry 22.75 hours of high quality video (for the given screen resolution), or 45.5 hours of good quality.

That's about 50 hour long TV episodes, Seasons 1 and 2 of the 24 TV series plus the LOTR trilogy, for example. That's a lot of video, and much more music than I own. Not bad for the price!

A 4Gb CF card already costs over $400.

Was this thing supposed to have wifi?

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
Serious question: With relation to the small hard drive, I don't own an iPod but does anyone have any personal experience with dropping one or know somebody that did? I'm curious how durable the drive will be in the long run. I'm also thinking that a reset won't be the cure-all anymore with this type of device.

I would equate this to laptop hardrives. And if this 4GB is anywhere near as durable as my laptops 40GB drive then it's not an issue.

CC, my daughter has an Ipod and it still works and she "throws" it around so I don't think it's really going to be an issue.

[rkevwill]

JM, ayup. Wifi is supposed to be included. If you check the pics in the link carefully, you will even see the wifi app.

Now....what do you think the fallout is gonna be if it DOESN'T have wifi??

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by Moose Man

CC, my daughter has an Ipod and it still works and she "throws" it around so I don't think it's really going to be an issue.

Well a blip in a song would not be as debilitating as a corrupted file on a PDA but it's good to hear that as far as one can tell that they are fairly resilient. Has she had any skips appear in previously good songs because of the rough handling?

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by JMckie
I bet those are the shipping dimensions (in the box).


I'm going to stop using the :D because no one pays attention. :D

Yes,

Agreed the dimensions are probably the "box" and we'll have to wait for the true dimensions to come off the P1 page. I suspect that it will be about as thick as the Que at the top near the antenna and power button but of course all the way through.

If my suspicous are correct and the specs live up to all of the hype as suggested by the various web sites (brighthand and others) then P1 may have resurged?

Could you imagine a life drive bundled with a GPS 10? that would read the maps off hard drive and would connect to your BT enabled phone?

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
Well a blip in a song would not be as debilitating as a corrupted file on a PDA but it's good to hear that as far as one can tell that they are fairly resilient. Has she had any skips appear in previously good songs because of the rough handling?

Nope - none that she has informed me about.

[reinbeau]

Originally posted by Moose Man
Could you imagine a life drive bundled with a GPS 10? that would read the maps off hard drive and would connect to your BT enabled phone? I pay attention to the :D :)

Yowsa, that would be a killer PDA. I'd be buying one the minute they came out with it! :p

[Moose Man]

It will be somewhat larger than palmOne's latest high-end model, the Tungsten T5, but it won't be as large as some rumors have indicated. The LifeDrive will be 4.7 inches tall, 2.8 inches wide, and 0.8 inches thick. It will weigh 6.8 ounces.

The above quote is from Brighthand (http://brighthand.com/article/Amazon_Leaks_Info_on_LifeDrive) so maybe it will be a "hair" smaller then the Que or about the same size.


And Reinbeau, thanks for noticing.....I was just about to go out and drown myself in beer because I thought no one noticed. Wait, I was going to do that anyway, TGIF. ;)

[rkevwill]

Size doesn't matter, its what you do with it that counts! Of course, we are talking PDA's here, right?

[Moose Man]

Originally posted by rkevwill
Size doesn't matter, its what you do with it that counts! Of course, we are talking PDA's here, right?

Size does matter. This is one case where if it's too big it wouldn't get used much and what good is it if it doesn't get used much. ;)

[donc13]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
Serious question: With relation to the small hard drive, I don't own an iPod but does anyone have any personal experience with dropping one or know somebody that did? I'm curious how durable the drive will be in the long run. I'm also thinking that a reset won't be the cure-all anymore with this type of device.

Don't own an iPod, but do own 2 of the IBM (now Hitachi) 1 GB micro-drives. And they're very reliable. Same size as a Type II CF flash card. And yes, I've dropped one, nothing lost, no damage that I can see.

I use them in my camera (a 5 MegaPixel Nikon) and they work out to about the equivalent of a 60x Flash card. I just got an 80x 512M flash card and the speed increase (from 60x to 80x) is hardly noticeable.


But yes, they are rugged, and I would presume the drive itself is in some sort of shock mount...doesn't take much to "soften" the blow on something this small. Very little inertia to overcome

:D

Don

[JMckie]

According to this magazine feature (http://www.palmforums.org/LDads/ld1.jpg), Lifedrive does have Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.

If the battery life is decent, and there are no major bugs, this could be a big hit for Palm. If only they had preannounced this a six months ago, they would have retained many customers who defected to other platforms. After the disappointing T5 came out, many long-time Palm in their dismay turned to PPC. If they knew the Lifedrive was coming, they would have had second thoughts.

Well now it is time for Garmin to step up to the plate and produce the Que apps for Palm. I know it's close, I was able to download the GPS 10 Palm manual off their site before it was taken down. But they have to make a full-screen version, not the 320X320 throwback shown in the manual.

[Moose Man]

1SRC (http://www.1src.com/scripts/show/1043-LifeDrive_Datasheet.html) has a link to an actual (or very good clone) of a Palm One spec sheet.

Looks like I'm staying up till 12:00 Midnight on the 17th to order one of these babies. ;)

[JMckie]

Looks like an exciting product. Can't wait to read reviews. I wonder why there haven't been any reviews, actually. Usually most products end up in reviewers' hands well before the product is available to the public. No mention of battery capacity - worrisome.

First thoughts coming from an iQue perspective
- love the D-Pad, and how you can operate the launcher with one hand
- wish there was a flip cover
- wish there was a jog dial
- the ability to store all the maps you want effectively saves you the cost of two 1Gb cards

[nparker13]

Originally posted by JMckie
I bet those are the shipping dimensions (in the box).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbisson/12619332/

:D

-nate

ps. ppods are better than ipods (ppc'ers)

[nparker13]

pps. what happened to os 6? did they make it just for fun??

-nate

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by nparker13
pps. what happened to os 6? did they make it just for fun??

-nate

Yes, seems to be a glaring omission considering the new hardware.

[JMckie]

Originally posted by nparker13
pps. what happened to os 6? did they make it just for fun??

-nate
This article (http://www.palmzone.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=381) talks about two announcements of Cobalt devices coming out this year. Neither of those companies are called Palm, which I find very strange.

[rkevwill]

As much as I want one for just carrying in my briefcase, for web and email......I think I am gonna wait until I see if it works with the GPS 10 that is rumored for the palm. Palm's bluetooth compatibility has not been too stellar lately. (think Treo 650)

[nparker13]

Originally posted by rkevwill
As much as I want one for just carrying in my briefcase, for web and email......I think I am gonna wait until I see if it works with the GPS 10 that is rumored for the palm. Palm's bluetooth compatibility has not been too stellar lately. (think Treo 650)

What carrier with the Treo600? We are thinking of upgrading to the Treo 650 when it comes out, but they crippled the bluetooth like they did with my v710. Verizon that is...


-nate

[Moose Man]

Nate,

Check the P1 web site the Verizon 650 was just released......

[nparker13]

Originally posted by Moose Man
Nate,

Check the P1 web site the Verizon 650 was just released......

yeah, to corporate customers first, i want to wait and try one out, and test it with my acura rl's bluetooth first.

-nate

[rkevwill]

Thats the problem. (beyond various carriers crippling various bluetooth functions).

And Nate, best check the bluetooth forum over on treocentral. As well as checking with acura and on the palm site thoroughly.

Many over there are driving themselves nuts trying to make it pair properly. What seems to happen most, is it pairs with SOME cars (not all) and SOME of the functions are available (not all) that the car offers.

Amazing....people can get a free (or inexpensive) bluetooth phone with service, that pairs perfectly with these cars, yet our $500 phones are only partly useable.

Also Nate, Sprint doesn't have DUN enabled yet, yet they say it will be soon. Cellular One seems to have most if not all functions enabled, especially the unlocked version from palm. Verizon is just completely Anti-bluetooth.

[rkevwill]

Its Heeeerrre

http://www.palminfocenter.com/index.asp

[vectorman]

OK, I don't usually ask for much. I just want this thing in an iQue version.

That's it. Stick a fork in me. I'm done.

[JMckie]

Nice!!
Now I'm going to guess what all reviewers are going to mention: why didn't they make the battery removable?

[jonasolof]

Can it be a USB host?

[JMckie]

From the announcement (http://www.palminfocenter.com/mobile/mvs.asp?ID=7849):

Drive Mode - behaves like a USB drive to easily transfer files to any PC or Macintosh

[apersson850]

Which then means that if you have a serious amateur digital camera, you can't use it.
Cameras like the Canon EOS 350D can take CF cards only. The very expensive professional Canon cameras can take both SD and CF, but if you have one that can take CF only, then you must connect your camera to the computer via USB. But if this Palm device can act as a drive, and so does the camera, then we have two slave devices listening to each other. Then not much will happen.

[JMckie]

The next camera I'm buying has to have bluetooth. I think that feature is soon going to be standard, specially for top-dollar cameras.

[JMckie]

Pocketfactory review (http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2005/05/review_palmone_3.php)

********** review (http://www.**********.com/default.asp?newsID=2525&review=palmOne+LifeDrive) - exposes a few disturbing problems, possible deal-breakers from some

Oh someone has been maintaining a whole set of reviews here (http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27346&sid=bd00696f924b20c66dcc83773d50b9fe)

[JAL2]

Originally posted by apersson850
Which then means that if you have a serious amateur digital camera, you can't use it.


The same can be said for a middle of the road camera such as my Olympus point-and-shoot which uses an xD card. This still means I have to have yet another device (PPC or whatever) to transfer pictures from the xD to an SD card.

Is it difficult to design a USB host feature into a device such as this?

[rkevwill]

apersson:
In a review I read last night, they did mention you can download photos to the HD via usb. I believe he mentioned a program built in to do that. If I find the article I will post it. In the meantime, I bet either you or one of our other forum members may address this themselves.

[rkevwill]

Update

The app I was referencing is called Camera Companion. Just read another review, and it referenced transferring from sd and mmc cards. My wife's big Canon uses CF, and so does my old S10 Canon. We will have to see if there is any way to transfer via USB. So far don't see any info on that.

[nparker13]

why is EVERYONE pushing landscape mode so much? does anyone acutally use their handheld in landscape mode (those who have nonQue devices too?) I used LS once , but it was horrible.

-nate

[Curious Cat]

Originally posted by nparker13
why is EVERYONE pushing landscape mode so much? does anyone acutally use their handheld in landscape mode (those who have nonQue devices too?) I used LS once , but it was horrible.

-nate

I read (ebooks) in landscape, same with viewing pictures and it would be a nice addition to use viewing documents, especially spreadsheets.

[nparker13]

Originally posted by Curious Cat
I read (ebooks) in landscape, same with viewing pictures and it would be a nice addition to use viewing documents, especially spreadsheets.


most of that is all individual software based, as my iQue can view ebooks and picutures in landscape. not documents though...isnt it?

-ntae

[JMckie]

Practical landscape mode uses:

- web browsing
- watching video
- viewing remote desktop
- reading PDF documents
- viewing maps

[nparker13]

Originally posted by JMckie
Practical landscape mode uses:

- web browsing
- watching video
- viewing remote desktop
- reading PDF documents
- viewing maps

Good points, i disagree with webbrowsing and viewing maps, as webbrowsing, you need to use the graffiti/letter recog, which is too intrusive then. Maps, your goal is to see in front, and vertical i think is better. thats just my 2c. The others i agree.

-nate

[JMckie]

When entering data, the input panel is indeed too intrusive. You can, however collapse the input area after you enter the web address. Most of the time you are just viewing web pages.

I agree with you about the maps. However the possibility of mounting the unit landscape in the car dashboard is intriguing. I can't think of a better place for a GPS mount.

[Last Mrk]

While navigating it would be detrimental to have the display in landscape mode in as much as you're either navigating 'north up' or 'track up'. Portrait mode gives you a much larger 'picture' of where you've been and where you’re going IMHO.

[nparker13]

exactly. Looking at the garmin models, it went from models like the 2660 which was landscape to iques (vertical) to c330's (square?). maybe thats the direction (excuse the pun) of displays

-nate

[apersson850]

Seems like a circular screen is best for North Up...

[rkevwill]

JM, Moose, Mrk, Apersson, and anyone else that wants to chirp in. After reading the reviews so far, whats your opinion of the LifeDrive. Are you tempted?

Personally, I am wondering about...
1. the size
2. the delay on accessing the HD
3. the possible drain on the battery from the HD
4. whether I really need 4 gb of space on a HD, with a pocket (briefcase) device that I will probably sync daily anyway.

[JMckie]

Frankly, some of the reviews have made me nervous.

It sounds like the majority of the issues center around the internal hard drive. Some potential dealbreakers (and remember this is hearsay):

- According to one site, the HD gets wiped clean after a hard reset. Not good.
- The system is sluggish because of access to the HD. One thing Palm has going for it its responsiveness. The Lifedrive sounds like it is slower than a low end PocketPC.
- The reasoning behind a 4Gb hard drive? To bring MP3s and movies. How can you enjoy them when the battery is draining visibly with every song played?

A lot of the apprehension, and suspicion falls on the hard drive. I think without it, the reviewers would have had few problems with the Lifedrive.

In a few months, I'm guessing Palm will release a driveless Lifedrive, which would be what users wanted in the first place.

[jonasolof]

It seems that the reason to include a hard drive is that it is less expensive than a flash card. Technically, I can't see any advantage. LIfe drive is a weird name.

They are still lagging behind PPC. On my Loox wich has a VGA screen I can use an SD and a CF card, both IO. And the PDA can act as a USB host to all sorts of hard drives over USB. It's easy to bring a pocket size hard drive and shuffle data to and from cards, if needed. Drawbacks are slow transfer and the fact that that the PDA will only give 100 mA over the USB port, so external (battery) power will often be needed.

Undocumented features on the Loox 720 have been found: In addition to earphone output, there is microphone input in the top audio jack. PC-mobile has a four pole plug plus cable. Also, on the bottom connector, there is stereo audio output, easily activated by bridging to pins. For car installations, people hardwire audio input to car radio plus they add external hard drives for music over USB.

The Loox 720 works with Skype over WLAN. One can add a GSM/GPRS CF card. The only thing lacking is an internal UMTS/3G phone.

Most important, the PDA behaves well (which is good for a PPC device). I'll go for a Palm solution when they advance to be at par with development.

[rkevwill]

Originally posted by JMckie
Frankly, some of the reviews have made me nervous.

It sounds like the majority of the issues center around the internal hard drive. Some potential dealbreakers (and remember this is hearsay):

- According to one site, the HD gets wiped clean after a hard reset. Not good.


I read that too, but apparently palm says something completely contrary to that comment. I also find it terribly hard to believe that a hard reset would effect a separate HD. However, what the heck do I know, I haven't really read the manual yet. I did see a couple of posts that referenced where palm stated that a Hard reset didn't wipe out data on the HD. We'll see.

[Moose Man]

I ordered it on Tuesday at 9:01PM PST time. Bit disappointed that it's not scheduled to ship for 7-14 days but other than that:

Frequently used programs are supposed to be cached in the 64MB area of the drive so they will access faster.

Wipe of the hard drive on a hard reset? I've only hard reset my T5 once and that was because I wanted to purge some stuff. It wasn't because it was forced. The internal SD card was dumped which is in the documentation so I suspect the same on the L.D. but there are other types of resets which will allow you to recover without a hard reset.

4GB storage will be enough for me. I use less than 2GB for most of my work which includes the large Outlook files which with the Blackberry is less of an issue then most.

I read all of the reviews last night that I saw linked at 1SRC and to me most are praising the device with truly only concerns about battery and heat because of the hard drive but other than that.....it's ordered.

[rkevwill]

keep us up to date moose. If it looks like it will work in the future with the palm version of the gps 10, (in full screen) and if you like it, I will probably go for one.

[JMckie]

Good luck with that Moose. I'm glad one of the locals here will get to use it hands on. Waiting for the reports. What will you do with your T5?

[Moose Man]

The OS is Garnet 5.4.8 so it's different then the 5.4.5 of the T5.

He's loading programs and will report back so we'll see.

They are supposedly available at some CompUSA stores although not all because I'm up in Reno and there isn't one here.

I'll keep you techies up to date when I get it....unlike Bokkie ;) who traded teams.

[rkevwill]

Pssssst....I used one of Bokkie's teams products last weekend. Quite a bit. Liked the wifi, hated the interface, and the delays. One of the top of the line Axims. One of the reviews I read stated using the hd in the lifedrive, was like waiting for the PPC's to respond to a command, no worse.

[Curious Cat]

Other then cost, why would one want a Life Drive over a 4 GiG SD card if available? You might say, well it's not available and it does/would cost more but how long until they close that gap? I'd be more excited if there was a major OS upgrade.

[JMckie]

4Gb seems like an odd choice. It is too close what is currently available with flash memory. Today, what seems merely odd, will seem outright ridiculous next year.

If you are going to put a hard drive, why not go for 40Gb, along the lines of the iPod?

I'm pretty sure their customers didn't ask for a hard drive in the first place. If they simply listened to their customers, they would be in a much better position right now.

The Tungsten 3 was pretty successful for them. It was a sweet machine. What did the T3 users say that they wanted? Just add Wifi, put in a better battery (replacable), and get rid of the slider. This machine would have been far easier to do than the LifeDrive, would have been well received. Who knows what the Palm execs are smoking?

[Statsman]

Why not just rip a 5GB microdrive out of a Rio Carbon MP3 player and use it in a device that has a CF-slot and bluetooth along with a GPS-10?

[nparker13]

Originally posted by Statsman
Why not just rip a 5GB microdrive out of a Rio Carbon MP3 player and use it in a device that has a CF-slot and bluetooth along with a GPS-10?

can you, they are really cheap on woot.com

-nate

[rkevwill]

I was wondering when we were gonna hear from the elusive "CAT" on this subject! And, agreed on my end. The sucker seems thick enough to handle a larger HD.

JM, I totally agree with you. Just last night, I was scratching my head to see if this fit in with my needs. Frankly, if the Ique just had wifi (or support), for me it would be just fine. I only need a unit to surf at wifi locations, and was kinda hoping for GPS10 down the road. I might even end up with a Te2 or T5 (gag) with a wifi card if they do full gps10 compatability. Ahhh well, the LD looks cool, but might be a bit bigger than I need, or want.

[Moose Man]

The life drive is in hand. I picked one up before leaving Reno this morning to get home.

It'll be in the charger but don't expect any "news" until at least tomorrow evening.

Personal stuff to do and then a trip to the movie theater on Sunday for Star Wars and then in the evening maybe......

[nparker13]

Originally posted by Moose Man
...movie theater on Sunday for Star Wars and then in the evening maybe......

very good, must recommend...not a huge fan, esp 1 and 2, but this is by far the best (with ep 4 close behind).

-nate

[Moose Man]

Been loading some software onto the Life Drive. The only thing not compatible is Crash Pro. All other programs seem to be functioning fine but when I launched Crash Pro it decided to tell me it was not compatible. Therefore, it's been removed and I'll advise 79bmedia although since he is in Germany it might be awhile before he can get either a unit or the sim to test.

I have Fandango the tickets for the show and we are getting about 10 minutes before I must leave.

Initial remarks:

Heat will be a concern if you leave it connected and laying down because the unit does not come with cradle. I have the T5 cradle which works with the LD and so it's much "cooler".

Launch delay of programs? This is not a concern after the first couple of times a program is launched. Agendus loads quick and fine. Bejeweled 2 also loads pretty quckly.

DTG takes a second or so compared to the T5 but in fairness I've only launched it a couple of times so.....

One point of order: This device and the corresponding Life Drive manager is so complex compared to the older Palm units that a through Reading of the Manual is going to be necessary.

There is a function within Life Drive Manager to basically sync the files you bring over through it's file manager. I'd quickly say that it equates to a backup program so that both devices are current while running life drive. I guess it's similar to Active Sync for a PPC device but I'm going to have to do some more testing.

Your given the option to "convert the file" or to just copy it in native format so that it's simply a flash drive.

More later - got to go.

[Moose Man]

Rather than double posting:

Here is my on going review of the Life Drive (http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58358)