Netbook OS.IMG

[GaryTheHat]

Does anyone have the OS.IMG file that comes with these grey imports on EBAY. I deleted mine like an idiot and can't run my machine. I would be very grateful if someone could e-mail me a zipped version (Approx 6 meg)

Thanks Gary

[wanman]

Did you get a CD with your unit as it should be on this aswell.

Regards

Si

[GaryTheHat]

The problem is I done a hard reset and know can't get the machine to boot up with the new version fron Psion. These netbooks sold on Ebay are a nightmare as they only work on the OS supplied, and I deleted the OS.IMG file like an idiot.

Gary

[Calbrit]

Gary - all is not lost (or is it?!). Try contacting "Turbo". I transferred my OS to Mike (Turbo) who is going to compare it against the other OS image files. I used Ftp to do this as the file even zipped is too big for my ISP's. You could therefore receive it via Ftp from his site.

I hope this helps.

Grant

[netBookBabe]

Am I right in thinking Turbo's version will be the US one? Still, better than nothing, eh, Gary?

Julie

[netBookBabe]

Sorry, Gary, I didn't read that last post correctly - we're talking about Calbrit's OS from his "unusual" netBook, so it WILL be the US version.

Clutching at straws here, but does anybody think it might be worth trying an older "official" Psion version? I've got UK version 156, if you wanted to try it Gary.

Julie

[GaryTheHat]

Hi Julie, I am willing to try anything at the moment. I have been in contact with Psion support who are trying to find out what the original reason was behind these special netbooks. He said it should be possible to re-install a new bootloader, similar to the BIOS on a PC. I feel a bit gutted really buying one, it's hardly much better than a series 7 but has cost me loads more. I could have got a second hand S7 for about £230. I've been in contact with EZgallery trying to get a refund saying they mislead people with their advert.

Gary

[diem]

Sounds like a somewhat positive response from Psion, which is good to see :) Re-writing the bootloader would be ideal!

As a fallback position, I'm in the process of getting hold of a copy of the Malaysian OS from another forum user.

I'll be in touch.

[GaryTheHat]

Would this be the UK version, if so please let me know


Thanks Gary

[Calbrit]

Ecuse the ignorance here but can you give me a link to EZ Gallery.

Thanks Grant

[netBookBabe]

Here's one of the ezgallery netBook auctions on eBay UK, Grant:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2074128684

Julie

[Calbrit]

Thanks Julie - now I understand! "ezgallery" in the UK = "bestdealbiz" on EBAY's US web site! The reason I asked is originally when I questioned the seller about getting shipping insurance he referred me to ezgallery which I thought was an EBAY service or something. I therefore did not find it and took a flyer without insurance.

Grant

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by Calbrit
... now I understand! "ezgallery" in the UK = "bestdealbiz" on EBAY's US web site!That's what I was trying to communicate to everyone, but I guess it got somewhat lost in the morass of posts. :)

Julie

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by GaryTheHat
Hi Julie, I am willing to try anything at the moment.If you want the nB OS I mentioned I can send it to you - it's about 5.7meg zipped. E-mail OK? I'm not too optimistic that it will work, I have to admit, but it's no problem to me to send it if you want to receive it.I've been in contact with EZgallery trying to get a refund saying they mislead people with their advert.Quite right too! As I have said before, I do feel this is a case of misrepresentation, whether intentional or not is quite irrelevant. You haven't received the product you were expecting, and thus I feel you should be entitled to a refund. I'm not quite sure of the auction small print on this kind of thing though - you certainly would be so entitled by normal sale of goods T&C.

It's beyond me as to why they have not removed the reference to upgradeable OS! :mad:

I hope you find some kind of solution soon, Gary.

Julie

[Calbrit]

I missed Julie's post on the previous page ref. my OS. Actually when I hit Shift/Ctrl & Q in the system screen it's shows:

netBook
Software version 1.05 (281)
Language English UK
Hardware Processor SA -1100
Speed 191.692 Mhz
Rom size 14M
Ram size 18M

I have now sent a copy by Ftp to Yan to play with!

Grant

[harveyr]

Dear All
This matter has been brought to our attention within Psion and I thought it best to explain. From what we can gather, these units are frompart of a build a few years ago made for a specific schools project in Malaysia. The ROM is unique and the machine is locked to prevent a standard netBook ROM image being loaded onto it.

It is important to note that you will not be able to run the current ROM image (or previous images) on one of these Malaysian units. In addition Psion will not provide any warranty or support for these units as these issues were agreed separately with our partner in Malaysia.

I have contacted the company responsible for selling these units and have requested they advise customers of these issues. If nothing is forthcoming then I will also inform eBay.

Best regards

Harvey Roberts
Product Manager
Psion Teklogix

[netBookBabe]

Harvey

Thank you for coming forward and clarifying this situation. There was certainly no way that prospective purchasers could have had any idea about this from the way these items were advertised. Very misleading indeed. :mad:

Julie

[markdeppe]

Thanks Harvey, Good to hear someone from psion is out there. I hope that the enthusiasm with which these netbooks are brought will help to encourage further develpment of the hardware and software of these great machines in the official models. Can you clarify that the sale and purchase of these malaysian imports is legal? As in, that they have not found their way to the market by illigal means

[MartinMaxwell]

As late as on Sunday (1st December 2002) I got reports from a PC fair in Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) that these "netBooks" were being sold over the counter and branded as "Psion netBooks" at a price of RM 780.- (~= £160). On the brochure, which was faxed to me, people are led to believe that the machine is fully compatible (!?) with Nokia 9200 Series, P800s and Series 60 phones.

My take on this is that the School Project has collapsed and that they are now sitting on thousands of surplus units whose value they cannot recover otherwise.

As the "Psion" and "netBook" imprints were never removed, people will assume that this is a device supported by the local Psion distributor, which in Malaysia is Alchemy. So Alchemy is getting ringed down by people having bought these "netBooks".

The company on the brochure is one Sita Network Consultancy Services Sdn Bhd. I am not sure how they are related to the original school consortium, which, as far as I can recall was led by a company called Edu One.

cheers
Martin Maxwell

[harveyr]

Dear Mark and Martin

Thanks for the valuable information. I am discussing the situation also with EZGallery who are selling the units on eBay. They tell me they have withdrawn the units until the situation can be clarified...

Regarding the legality of selling these, I am checking this now. Essentially I would imagine it to be quite legal as they were bought from Psion in good faith. The problem comes naturally that a standard nB image will not work resulting in customers feeling cheated.

Nice comment about people rushing to buy them...and our future dev plans. Whilst I love the product, I can't help thinking part of the 'rush' is down the the price - under £200! ;)

[GaryTheHat]

Dear Harvey, I have one of these machines, but the question I've asked is whats so different with these Ebay OS's compared to the newer versions?. Why would you fix the OS in the first place? Would the installing of a personality chip work? Can the machine have a firmware upgrade?Can a warrenty be purchsed direct from Psion to cover these machines?Will the price of the standard machines come down at all to compensate the flood of the market?

You have made a good product that people will obviously go for like a red rag to a bull at these Ebay prices. I just hope Psion can help in someway there's going to be a lot of these in the market now.

Gary

[harveyr]

Gary, the ROMs are customised to the specific requirement of the customer, in this case for schools. This is something we do for larger orders which can warrant the additional work required. Things such as pre-loaded default settings, corporate logos on the splash screen, unique applications etc.

The reason for the machines being locked to prevent any other than the intended ROM image being loaded is to safeguard against the machines being stolen and sold on as standard product.

Regarding warranty, Psion would not consider providing warranty cover on these machines. They were manufactured over 2 years ago and we have no idea what conditions they have been stored in eg climate, dampness etc.

Regarding price....no, will will not be lowering our prices I'm afraid! The machines being offered for sale are also the previous revision of the hardware without the power modification to allow the use of ISDN and GPRS PC cards.

The price that they are currently being sold at barely covers the cost of the LCD (to put our price into context).

[diem]

Originally posted by GaryTheHat
Would the installing of a personality chip work? Can the machine have a firmware upgrade?

Yes, installing a netBook personality module would allow you to install a newer version of the OS.

A 'firmware upgrade' (i.e. re-blowing the bootloader on your existing personality module) would theoretically work, but requires access to the correct tools (and bootloader!). Since Psion have, quite understandably, not offered a warranty on these models, accessing such tools is very unlikely.

[MartinMaxwell]

Does anyone have the OS.IMG of this Malaysian "netBook" OS to mail to me? Or is it downloadable from somewhere? We would like to take a look at it. My martin@thinkplusconsulting.com should be able to take the size.

[ehasbrouck]

Originally posted by harveyr
EZGallery who are selling the units on eBay... tell me they have withdrawn the units until the situation can be clarified...

Regarding the legality of selling these, I am checking this now. Essentially I would imagine it to be quite legal as they were bought from Psion in good faith. The problem comes naturally that a standard nB image will not work resulting in customers feeling cheated.


I'd feel ripped off if I had bought one in reliance on the Ebay.com and Ebay.co.uk claims that they were "standard" netbooks or covered by a Psion warranty.

BUT... a surplus dealer in Singapore (who, according to an earlier post here, may have bought 2000 of these on Ebay themselves, and thus may have had no direct contact with One Ed Dot Com or Psion), *may* not have known that they were non-standard, not the latest OS build, non-upgradeable, or unsupported by Psion. They *may* have decribed them as best they knew. And they *may* have bought them legally.

The descriptions for the most recent Ebay listings don't say anything about Psion support or warranty. They say, "We provide one month warranty from the date of shipment. Buyer is responsible for return shipping costs and insurance." That means buyers who find they aren't as decribed, and don't want them as is, should be out at most shipping and insurance costs.

[i]Originally posted by MartinMaxwell

I got reports from a PC fair in Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) that these "netBooks" were being sold over the counter... at a price of RM 780.- (~= £160)....

My take on this is that the School Project has collapsed and that they are now sitting on thousands of surplus units whose value they cannot recover otherwise.


As long as they are accurately described, I think we should encourage the holder of this lot to put them back on Ebay (or on Ubid.com, which might be a better way to move quantity quickly). They will get more on the world market than at PC fairs in K.L., and unload their inventory faster. We'll get access to cheaper Netbooks, and the Netbook user community will grow. We'll all lose if this huge stock gets taken off the open market.

I've knowingly bought discontinued, non-upgradeable hardware, when the price was right. It's not for everyone, but I'm eager to see the price once these are back on the market with an accurate description. (The price should be less than an out-of-warranty series 7, since the 7 can be upgraded to a 7Book.) If you are afraid of breakage and unavailability of warranty saervice, you can get insurance from Safeware.com for *replacement* cost.]

[wanman]

I suppose it is a shame that these netbook personality modules are still not available, as you could buy one of these Malaysian machines and set it back to it's full netbook status.

[MartinMaxwell]

>>>BUT... a surplus dealer in Singapore (who, according to an earlier post here, may have bought 2000 of these on Ebay themselves,<<<

Do not know who you are referring to here. Certainly not me or my company as we are not surplus dealers or anything like it. We are a software house active in Singapore, Malaysia and Scandinavia. We do not own any of the "Malaysian netBooks", but nevertheless we're quite interested to know more about them because we do quite a bit of developments on Symbian OS and these "netBooks" seem to issue from this part of the world.

The "surplus dealer" I am referring to is the Sita Network Consultancy Sdn Bhd (Pte Ltd) as per my previous post. I have not had any direct contact with them, but they are the issuer of the "buy-a-netBook-for-160-quid" brochure.

>>>>and thus may have had no direct contact with One Ed Dot Com or Psion), *may* not have known that they were non-standard, not the latest OS build, non-upgradeable, or unsupported by Psion. They *may* have decribed them as best they knew. And they *may* have bought them legally. <<<

As far as I know One Ed Dot Com (is that the correct name?) has wound up or at least disappeared. Probably, they were just an SPV for the Malaysian school project.

>>>As long as they are accurately described, I think we should encourage the holder of this lot to put them back on Ebay (or on Ubid.com, which might be a better way to move quantity quickly). They will get more on the world market than at PC fairs in K.L., and unload their inventory faster. We'll get access to cheaper Netbooks, and the Netbook user community will grow. We'll all lose if this huge stock gets taken off the open market.<<<

This, I guess, would be allright if people were not misled to believe that these "netBooks" are fully supported by Psion and its distributors and that they are not upgradeable. The aforesaid brochure even claimed that they are fully 'compatible' with Nokia 9200, SE P800, Nokia 7650, Nokia 3650 phones etc, which of course is a blatant lie.

[ehasbrouck]

Originally posted by MartinMaxwell
>>>BUT... a surplus dealer in Singapore (who, according to an earlier post here, may have bought 2000 of these on Ebay themselves,<<<

Do not know who you are referring to here.
Certainly not me or my company as we are not surplus dealers or anything like it....

The "surplus dealer" I am referring to is the Sita Network Consultancy Sdn Bhd (Pte Ltd) as per my previous post.

I was *not* referring to MartinMaxwell -- sorry if it appeared so. I was referring to the posting by in the thread on this forum, "EBAY netbook arrived:

Originally posted by Nelda
A recent netBook sale on eBay, seller located in Malaysia, 'buyer take all', sold 2,000 of them in the lot....(final at around $1US each...)


A quick call confirmed that Sita <http://www.jaring.my/sita/sn/snhome.htm> has Netbooks available as of today from K.L. for MYR990 (approx. USD260, GBP170). They couldn't tell me much about them or how many they have. I don't know if Sita is the same as the ebay.com "bestdealbiz" and ebay.co.uk "exgallery". These Malaysian Netbooks may be in the hands of several liquidators.

[markdeppe]

Things are as they are, and though it may not be perfect for psion or the consumer it would be great if there could be a win win situation for the whole psion community come out of this, it is possible. I can imagine how Psion could benefit from this, via selling more personailty modules for example and through having a larger base of users to develop software for and enhancements like bluetooth and phone developments etc., and hardware upgrades, and expanision of a repair facility and insurance schemes etc. etc. Not to mention a raised profile and if they are happy well cared for users then new people will buy the models psion sells once these malaysin ones dry up (I do not deny the price is a huge factor Harvey). I live in hope.

[Stargazer]

Would it not be feasible for Psion (Teklogix or Digital) to offer a personality module plus a limited warranty specifically to Ebay Netbook buyers? Setting a price of, say, £50, should give Psion a nice profit margin (the chips can't cost *that* much) while allowing those who have been "misinformed" (yes, I'm one of them!) a chance to have a fully functioning Netbook with a small cost saving.

I feel caught between two choices here - I do feel the Netbooks sold have been somewhat crippled and should have had a larger discount for this (EZBuyer's "exchange rate" trick adding 10% to the price left a sour taste in my mouth also). On the other hand, I am becoming rather attached to it (after only a few hours!!) and am already finding it difficult to go back to my trusty 5mx. The £800 price of a new Netbook (the best price I've found) is a little too much however - and I do want wireless networking (802.11a when it's available officially in the UK!) so a Series 7 / 7Book is not really an option.

What say you Harvey?

[diem]

Hi Stargazer,

AFAIK, the malaysian OS does include wireless network support (check the Device list in the Ethernet Control Panel). Be aware thought that it is 802.11b not 802.11a.

[Stargazer]

There are entries for the Cisco and Lucent Orinoco cards - on the other hand there is no rfstat utility (although nFTP is present, as is Opera but only version 3.62). My worry is that the wireless support is likely to be less mature/developed than with the current version of the OS. If a workaround can be found regarding the bootloader (that doesn't involve too great an expense) then I would like to keep this Netbook, but otherwise back it goes .... :-(

With regards to 802.11a, virtually every PC-Card I have seen supporting it is a Cardbus one which would seem to rule it out for the Netbook's PC Card slot. The best option would seem to be therefore having an 11a network for the PCs, but ensuring that the base station supports 11b as well.

[GaryTheHat]

Originally posted by harveyr

The reason for the machines being locked to prevent any other than the intended ROM image being loaded is to safeguard against the machines being stolen and sold on as standard product.



This worked very well in this case then, 100's of these machines are know in general peoples hands.


Gary

[wanman]

Gary,

Current thinking is that the original contract these machines were intended for, fell through so they could be selling them on legitimately. The fact that these machines are about 1-2 years old and have not appeared on the market before this, could be a clue that the safeguards have worked.

Who knows though !!

Regards
Si

See Harvey, we are on Psion Teklogix's side and would greatly appreciate (grovel, grovel) any help you can provide, in resolving this locking issue either by providing a new bootloader for those who can provide proof of purchase of these machines or by letting the supplier of the netbook personality modules to carry on supplying them to the likes of Expansys and POS. Obviously this is only if your investigations prove that they have been sold legitimately ;)

[diem]

sounds like a fair request to me :cool:

[MartinMaxwell]

I have just now bought one of the Malaysian "netBooks" from a shop here in Malaysia at the price indicated previously, and I am comparing it with my *real* netBook and a S7 we have in our lab.

Would still very much appreciate if someone could help us get the OS.IMG of the Malaysian netBook since it did not come with any backup, neither on CF nor on the CD. This means I cannot "reboot"-test it yet.

cheers
Martin

[Stargazer]

I have emailed you a copy Martin - good luck with your inbox! (just hope not too many others have done the same)

[netBookBabe]

Errr, might have been a good idea to zip that file? It would have gone down to around 6meg.

Julie

[Stargazer]

Yes, I forgot ... apologies. Err...isn't 2:58 in the morning a little late to be on the Internet posting? (assuming that you're in the UK).

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by Stargazer
Err...isn't 2:58 in the morning a little late to be on the Internet posting?Ahh, you thought you'd get away with it whilst I wasn't looking??

LOL! Just kidding! :D

Julie

[Stargazer]

Martin, my previous email to you bounced due your quota being exceeded so I've zipped the OS.IMG file and sent it again.

Just hope this post slides beneath NetBookBabe's radar (she's *got* to sleep sometime!)

[netBookBabe]

Originally posted by Stargazer
Just hope this post slides beneath NetBookBabe's radar (she's *got* to sleep sometime!) You think so? ;)

Julie

[jade]

Hi Martiin,

It is true that the NetBooks were selling at the PC Fair in Kuala Lumpur. I happened to be there and purchased 2 units of the Netbook at RM880 and not RM780 as mentioned. I feel that it is a real good deal and value for money.

The seller did clarify that there was no warranty for the item as they were helping someone to clear off access stock.

The company I purchased the units from Sita Network Consultancy Services Sdn. Bhd. has provided me good after sales service since and I am truly very satisfied with my purchase and personally think that it is a fantastic buy and has cheered me up this festive season.

By the way, I heard that the price has increased since the PC Fair.

:)

[harveyr]

Regarding the ROM image, you shouldn't see too much difference. A couple of Splash Screens will be different, some of the latest changes implemented in the current release such as Opera 5, nStatRF and some bug fixes won't have been included etc.

With regard to how these machines have now appeared, no, the contract did not fall through, but there were approximately 1,000 units which never actually got deployed into the schools. I understand these have just been sitting in a warehouse in Malaysia for the past couple of years. Clearly, there is no problem with these being sold on as they are being and they should work fine with the image that is shipped on the CF card. The problem seems to be arising because buyers are deleting the Schools ROM and then trying to load a current image.

I understand your frustrations in this, but I simply cannot help with the requests to sell the Bootloaders or to release the Schools ROM image. If we were seen to be supporting these units actively it would greatly annoy our current and potential customers for netBook...remember this is a non-consumer product and Psion only market it in the Enterprise space, not to the general public. The Series 7 was the consumer targeted variant.

If we supported this, we would effectively be encouraging a price point of £190...our customers would then want to know why they can't buy units for that kind of money and we would very quickly go out of business!

I'm sorry, but there really is nothing I can do.

Harvey

[GaryTheHat]

Harvey, Just like to say thanks for all the help you have provided with this matter.

Gary

[wanman]

I am sorry to hear you stance on this Harvey.

Surely you realise that along with your (hopefully) healthy enterprise business, you have a lot of consumer purchased units out there aswell. Most of these have been bought at the full retail price. The reason consumers went for these machines rather than the cheaper 7, was the increased speed, upgradable OS, greater compatibility with peripherals and of course, continued support from yourselves as Psion Digital had pulled the plug on supporting the consumer market. Why do you think that most of us 7 series owners jumped at the chance of upgrading to a 7book when the netbook personality modules appeared on the market over the last few months.

We absolutely love your 7/netbook products and we are not here to upset your enterprise market customers but we would like the oportunatey to be supported even at a small level. With enough of us private users out there, your products are getting seen. I am always being asked to demonstrate my 7book and I am sure other users on this forum get the same.

In addition to this, I really cannot see why your corporate customers would be bothered about you helping a few loyal private customers as long as it did not affect the levels of support you provide them. Re the cost of units being affected, that is rubbish, it is known that these are second hand units which are 1-2years old (albiet not used). We have also been buying them on an auction site. You can buy brand new £800 TV's for £200 on auction sites but that doesn''t mean that shoppers are rushing Sony and demanding that this is their true worth. The reason these units are being sold at well under retail price is that they want to get rid of this old stock. Would you be any happier if they had sold them at £600 or full price £800.

I know this goes on a bit but I am sure others will agree that we are not asking for much from you and would be willing to pay a small price for any support you can spare. If bootloader fixes are not possible due to lack of staff, then what about selling a few personality modules from your repair depot?

Regards

Si

[Stargazer]

Harvey,

Thank you for your participation in this thread and the information you have supplied.

I would like to express strong support for wanman's views regarding the NetBook/Series 7. The Series 7 is not supported, not produced and not available so any argument that it is the "consumer" targeted variant nowadays can only be academic. Given that NetBooks are available through a number of websites also undermines the "enterprise only" argument and I am disappointed that the consumer market does not appear to be of significant importance to Psion - especially given the high product loyalty shown.

I would like to draw Psion's attention to the increasing use of home networking (both wired and wireless). The NetBook is in a prime position to jockey for this market, particularly for "anyplace" Internet access, due to its portability and built-in keyboard - something that the Tablet PCs being pushed by the rest of the market do not possess. This should be an significant opportunity for Psion - although given the company's recent history I feel it would not be a surprise if they missed this one too.

With regard to the recent Ebay issue, I also find it difficult to appreciate the concerns. *No one* paid £190 for their Netbook on Ebay - the reserve was set at £420 for the first ones and taking exchange rates (an artificially high one was set by EZGallery adding 10% to the price) and delivery/VAT into account, £550-600 would be closer to the actual price paid by most. The "corporate" customers are presumably already gaining discounts of this level through bulk orders and making some spare parts available (like personality modules) would surely be an example of providing more support - whether they came from Psion itself or through a third party.

Hmmm...I think I'm starting to rant too. However Netbooks deserve better than to be stuck in a corporate ghetto and Psion is not being asked to donate its first-born child over this - just a few spare arms and legs...

[WolfUK]

Originally posted by wanman
...Re the cost of units being affected, that is rubbish, it is known that these are second hand units which are 1-2years old (albiet not used). We have also been buying them on an auction site. You can buy brand new £800 TV's for £200 on auction sites but that doesn''t mean that shoppers are rushing Sony and demanding that this is their true worth. The reason these units are being sold at well under retail price is that they want to get rid of this old stock. Would you be any happier if they had sold them at £600 or full price £800.
Si, I think that if you bought a Sony TV off Ebay and that TV had been modified for a particular customer then Sony may well balk at supporting it.

Looking at the cold, hard facts, several people bought a netBook from someone whose claims about the machine (under warranty and upgradable) were false. It is not Psion's obligation to sort this out for them and it isn't that fair to ask Harvey to try to offer an unofficial solution. I can understand that they are unhappy about Psion saying that they will not help out with these devices but the buyers were never meant to get their hands on one.

I can also understand Harvey's point that enterprise customers might be annoyed but then again, so might the private consumers who have spent hundreds of pounds on a netBook. If Psion were seen to be coming to the aid of these buyers and providing a new bootloader so that they could modify their netBooks to be the same as a full-price one then people might think that a little unfair since they paid a higher price just to have grey imports supported by the manufacturer.

I know this goes on a bit but I am sure others will agree that we are not asking for much from you ...Sorry, I do disagree with this. It would be nice of Psion to help out but then again you are asking Psion to support a netBook that people should not have. I am sure that this matter is not solely related to cost but rather to the fact that they are using a corporate product modified for a particular customer and asking Psion to help you to 'undo' this.

I realise that my comments are not likely to make me very popular but can I finally add that I am not trying to have a go at anyone else who bought a One-Ed netBook in good faith but I can understand where Harvey and Psion are coming from. I do feel that these guys have been screwed over but that is a matter between them and the Ebay seller. They took a chance and it didn't entirely pay off (although they have a fully working netBook) and asking Psion to 'fix' their machines and to effectively make it as functional as a netBook bought by a consumer or enterprise customer for the full price of around £800 was always a bit optimistic. Maybe a solution will be found but the buyers should enjoy their netBooks for what they are and what it can do and shouldn't become frustrated or angry with Psion ... it's not their fault and it's a good business decision not to support grey imports.

Sorry. :(

Edited since Si didn't buy one!

[WolfUK]

Originally posted by Stargazer
The Series 7 is not supported, not produced and not available so any argument that it is the "consumer" targeted variant nowadays can only be academic. Given that NetBooks are available through a number of websites also undermines the "enterprise only" argument and I am disappointed that the consumer market does not appear to be of significant importance to Psion - especially given the high product loyalty shown.The decision to withdraw from the consumer market was a sad one for all of us Psion users and fans but it is one that Psion made and there's nothing we can do about it. Since the netBook was lauched a few sites have offered the general public the opportunity to buy netBooks which was fortunate for those of us who wanted one over a 7. However, this does not mean that Psion are supplying a consumer product, just that consumers can get an enterprise product via an authorised reseller.

I would like to draw Psion's attention to the increasing use of home networking (both wired and wireless). The NetBook is in a prime position to jockey for this market, particularly for "anyplace" Internet access, due to its portability and built-in keyboard - something that the Tablet PCs being pushed by the rest of the market do not possess. This should be an significant opportunity for Psion - although given the company's recent history I feel it would not be a surprise if they missed this one too.Since Psion have said that they have no interest in the consumer market anymore why would they want to try to relaunch the netBook for home wireless use? The reality of the situation is that wireless networks are not commonplace in the home and in those homes that do have it, the majority of users will be sticking with Windows. Therefore the market for netBooks for this kind of usage is pretty small (I'd guess at around a few hundred people in reality) and therefore promoting the netBook for this type of thing would be a waste of time.

With regard to the recent Ebay issue, I also find it difficult to appreciate the concerns. *No one* paid £190 for their Netbook on Ebay - the reserve was set at £420 for the first ones and taking exchange rates (an artificially high one was set by EZGallery adding 10% to the price) and delivery/VAT into account, £550-600 would be closer to the actual price paid by most. Sorry to say this but if people were paying that much then surely they would have been better off spending a little more for a netBook from an authorised reseller which would have been guaranteed and would have been upgradable. If your netBook needs one repair during its first year then you have lost your £200-£250 saving anyway since it will cost you £190.

The "corporate" customers are presumably already gaining discounts of this level through bulk orders and making some spare parts available (like personality modules) would surely be an example of providing more support - whether they came from Psion itself or through a third party.Why would enterprise customers want a netbook personality module since they already have a netBook?

However Netbooks deserve better than to be stuck in a corporate ghetto and Psion is not being asked to donate its first-born child over this - just a few spare arms and legs... I agree, the netBook does deserve a wider audience than it has but Psion condoning grey imports isn't going to help sell more units. The corporate decision to leave the consumer market was made and it looks as if they will stick with it for now despite the still apparent demand for their devices. We are lucky that the netBook is still in production and that normal consumers can get them from various resellers.

[GaryTheHat]

Dear All,
I have read all the posts regarding this issue and can agree with points from all of them. I myself have bought one of these machines, yes it works but I would like to able to upgrade it. As already said I paid in excess of £550 for mine which I felt was a good deal at the time, I thought thats what the internet was there for.

I myself have only been using a Psion for a few months starting with a borrowed S5MX, which was brilliant. I wasn't aware on any issues with the netbook being marketed for corporate use, they are being sold on Psion's website as they are on a few others. But I'm a little confused with the fact they have released S7 upgrade kits, why?, if the netbook was never intended for the general market place. Would you not feel as gutted if you had paid £899 for a netbook but you could have upgraded from a S7?

By selling these personality chips again surely you are only giving us the same options as people who want to upgrade a S7.


Gary

[GaryTheHat]

Originally posted by WolfUK


Sorry to say this but if people were paying that much then surely they would have been better off spending a little more for a netBook from an authorised reseller which would have been guaranteed and would have been upgradable. If your netBook needs one repair during its first year then you have lost your £200-£250 saving anyway since it will cost you £190.



Don't forget these machines were originally sold with full warrentys and the fact they were upgradeable. This is the one point I'm angry about and feel I have been misled in my purchase. If I had known these points I wouldn't have touched one with a barge pole. But I'm stuck with mine unless EZgallery provide there customers with a refund which I doub't very much.

Gary

[WolfUK]

Originally posted by GaryTheHat
Don't forget these machines were originally sold with full warrentys and the fact they were upgradeable. This is the one point I'm angry about and feel I have been misled in my purchase. If I had known these points I wouldn't have touched one with a barge pole. But I'm stuck with mine unless EZgallery provide there customers with a refund which I doub't very much.Gary, this is where I do sympathise with you all and trying to sort this sort of thing out with a seller in the Far East may not be too easy. I hope that you have left negative feedback for him and that you are taking the matter up with Ebay.

[Stargazer]

Gary,

I did email EZGallery about returning the NetBook and received the following reply from jefflimjr@hotmail.com:

Subject: Re: Fw: Ebay auction - item 2065494265 - Psion Netbook PDA.

Hi

Please accept the parcel and check properly should the item in working
condition because the parcel included insurance. If there is no shipment
damages, please send the item to us at:

Ched International Pte Ltd
23, New Industrial Rd,
#04-08 Century Industrial Building,
536072
Singapore

Please attach a copy of letter stating "Refund Request" with your order
information.

Best Regards
Jeff

This does suggest the possibility of a refund - failing that, assuming that you paid by credit card, you should be able to hold the card company liable under the Consumer Credit Act, and request a refund from them. If you were charged VAT on the delivery, you can request a refund from Customs and Excise.

--Reply from Customs to my query on this--
Visit www.hmce.gov.uk, click on FORMS & PUBLICATIONS then Catalogue of Publications & scroll down to Notice 266, then for (other forms section) a C&E 1179 (claim form), this should be completed & with any proof of payment sent to your local office.

[wanman]

Good points from both Simon & Gary, and deep down I understand and accept what is being said and Simon's comments will surely be echoed by Harvey.

Gary By selling these personality chips again surely you are only giving us the same options as people who want to upgrade a S7.

Gary, I don't think this statement is entirely correct as it has still to be discovered exactly where these modules came from. If not from Psion then this needs to be directed to the actual source

Simon Why would enterprise customers want a netbook personality module since they already have a netBook?

I assume that Psion have and still buy spares to be used by their repair centre. All we are asking is the ability to purchase these again, if they were the original source.

Just to avoid confusion, I didn't actually buy one of these Malaysian netbooks but did benefit from the recent personality module release. My 7 is now a beefier 7book which I am very pleased with and am glad I had the opportunity to perform this upgrade whether official or not.

Personally speaking though, if/when I purchase a new full netbook (if they still continue to sell from companies such as Expansys), I would not be at all bothered by these recent events or if Psion decided to help out these users. All I know is that with more and more private/company users, the product life/further development is likely to continue.

Regards

Si

[WolfUK]

Originally posted by wanman
I assume that Psion have and still buy spares to be used by their repair centre. All we are asking is the ability to purchase these again, if they were the original source.I have been told that they were so maybe they will release more. It seems a very strange product to release however unless Psion are relenting and trying to help consumers out.

Just to avoid confusion, I didn't actually buy one of these Malaysian netbooks but did benefit from the recent personality module release. My 7 is now a beefier 7book which I am very pleased with and am glad I had the opportunity to perform this upgrade whether official or not.Sorry ... When I wrote my original message I confused you with Grant (Calbrit) rather than thinking you were just a sympathetic supporter!

Pesky typos!

[diem]

Originally posted by GaryTheHat
But I'm a little confused with the fact they have released S7 upgrade kits, why?
As confused as the rest of the world - Psion included! The batch of netBook personality modules that came onto the market appears to be a mystery. My contacts at Psion were initially surprised to hear that they were available, then tight-lipped after they did some internal checking around.

My reading of the situation (understand that I have not been told this explicitly) is that the batch got in the shops via a legal route, but it was not Psion's intention that it happened. Thus they can't complain about it, but nor are they happy about it.

My second guess is that you won't see any more netBook modules hitting the shops until Psion discontinue production of the netBook :(

[fladda]

Many thanks to Harvey for taking the time and trouble for investigating these Malasian Netbooks, and for also giving us good reasons why Psion are unable to provide warranty on these grey imports. Harvey is going out of his way to be helpful. although there are limits to what he can do.

Instead of moaning - you should be thankful that anybody from Psion took the time and trouble to come onto a public forum to discuss these issues.

Everybody wants everything for nothing these days - which is probably one of the reasons that Psion saw no money in the consumer market. Please remember that Psion are in the business of trying to make money for their shareholders - not giving stuff away for free !

That said, at GBP 190 it will probably be worth buying a Malasian Netbook just to get the spare parts !

Ralph

[daredevil]

My second guess is that you won't see any more netBook modules hitting the shops until Psion discontinue production of the netBook
In fact it is true that Psion has stop the production. It is Psion Teklogix doing the production of netBook and they sure operate in a different business environment and sense.
Do they know that it is comsumer driving the enterprises? Look at the Palm and Pocket PC O/S in the enterprise adaptation.

[MartinMaxwell]

hi Harvey,

>>> With regard to how these machines have now appeared, no, the contract did not fall through, but there were approximately 1,000 units which never actually got deployed into the schools. I understand these have just been sitting in a warehouse in Malaysia for the past couple of years. <<<

In addition, it seems that One Ed, who the boot and about screens refer to, has gone out of business. Their website is inaccessible. Ericsson, who seems to have been involved in the early stages, has pulled out and Alchemy, the local Psion distributor who had the maintenance contract, are just shaking their heads with a blank stare.

I am quite convinced that this project could have been an excellent success story with proper management. This is also the view of some friends I have in Ericsson Malaysia and Alchemy.

[markdeppe]

hi I follow and agree with much of the above though I might be off with my reply due to my ignorance of legal and technical matters and good business practice and manufactures rights so I share the below from a place of limited understanding I admit.

<<<you are asking Psion to support a netBook that people should not have>>> I do not follow this argument. As I understand it unless they had a legally binding contract that says words to the effect of "you are not allowed to sell this unit on and it must be destroyed if it is not going to be used by you" then I can not seee why they can not be allowed to be owned by others as is usual with any product no longer required by a company or individual they are at liberty to sell it, though I agree the buyer will not be intitled to the same rights as the original purchaser
<<< I do feel that these guys have been screwed over but that is a matter between them and the Ebay seller>>> I do not see this. Psion I trust were paid by the original purchaser and have made their money and if anything it would be between psion and the original purchaser not the company selling the netbooks on ebay who as far as we can tell have not done anything wrong, Harvey indicated as much. I can see how psion may be upset with oned though even that could be unreasonable as it is usual for any failed company when liquified to have their assets sold on.

<<<but Psion condoning grey imports isn't going to help sell more units.>>> maybe though maybe it will as the these people will show them off to friends and they will want one and will have to buy an authorised original once these grey ones are sold out IMHO. I persuaded a couple of people :-)
<<<warranty on these grey imports>>> - fair enough as they are over a year old and the new owners are not the registered purchaser and thus seems unreasonable to expect psion to give warranty,, this does not detract from the false advertisment argument though a different subject

<<<Everybody wants everything for nothing these days>>> I believe people are prepared to pay for the netbook modules or bootlaoder etc, and are asking for a gesture of good will from psion more than demanding it as their right (PS I am not a recent buyer of one of these netbooks). I and many people are happy to pay for a good product and service which we value.

The above is said with the highest regard and respect for the previous posters and is not for argument or personal, I trust it will be taken in the spirit of open discussion on the subjects.

Harvey I too appreciate your contributions even the ones that do not bring a smile thanks :-)

[WolfUK]

<<<you are asking Psion to support a netBook that people should not have>>> I do not follow this argument. As I understand it unless they had a legally binding contract that says words to the effect of "you are not allowed to sell this unit on and it must be destroyed if it is not going to be used by you" then I can not seee why they can not be allowed to be owned by others as is usual with any product no longer required by a company or individual they are at liberty to sell it, though I agree the buyer will not be intitled to the same rights as the original purchaserFair comment ... However, my point is that these netBooks were intended for a specific use and despite the fact that they are now available to the general public it does not mean that they were intended to be available to the consumer market. What people are asking is tantamount to buying a car with a companies logo all over it after that company has closed down and asking the manufacturer to respray the car since you don't like the colour scheme and it reduces the resale value.

<<< I do feel that these guys have been screwed over but that is a matter between them and the Ebay seller>>> I do not see this. Psion I trust were paid by the original purchaser and have made their money and if anything it would be between psion and the original purchaser not the company selling the netbooks on ebay who as far as we can tell have not done anything wrong, Harvey indicated as much.Psion did not sell these netBooks to these consumers. The Emay seller is not an authorised Psion reseller or distributor. These goods are therefore not the responsibility of Psion despite the fact that they were made by them. Besides this, my point was that the current owners who bought these netBooks via EBay cannot expect Psion to support them and if they are unhappy with the goods they should be complaining to the seller, not to Psion.

<<<but Psion condoning grey imports isn't going to help sell more units.>>> maybe though maybe it will as the these people will show them off to friends and they will want one and will have to buy an authorised original once these grey ones are sold out IMHO. I persuaded a couple of people :-)I think that int the entire time that I have used Psions I might have managed to impress half a dozen people. I don't think that these even turned into sales ultimately and my point is that it is not financially worth the risk of condoning grey imports for the sake of a handful (at most) of new sales.

<<<warranty on these grey imports>>> - fair enough as they are over a year old and the new owners are not the registered purchaser and thus seems unreasonable to expect psion to give warranty,, this does not detract from the false advertisment argument though a different subjectRegardless of the age of the units, if they were one day old they have been sold to these people by an unauthorised reseller and therefore Psion can (and have) voided any warranty. This is fairsly standard business practice.

<<<Everybody wants everything for nothing these days>>> I believe people are prepared to pay for the netbook modules or bootlaoder etc, and are asking for a gesture of good will from psion more than demanding it as their right (PS I am not a recent buyer of one of these netbooks). I and many people are happy to pay for a good product and service which we value.I appreciate that people are willing to pay for these fixes but there are two problems ... The first is that it appears that the original personality modules should never have reached consumers and therefore it is extremely unlikely that they will ever be on sale again. The second is that Psion have never really given two hoots about their customers and therefore relying on a good will gesture is simply pissing in the wind (if you will excuse the turn of phrase). There are one or two admirable people within Psion (including Harvey IMHO) but they are the exception rather than the rule.

The above is said with the highest regard and respect for the previous posters and is not for argument or personal, I trust it will be taken in the spirit of open discussion on the subjects.From my point of view you comments are appreciated and valued (as I hope mine are to others) and discussing this issue is perhaps one of the most immotive topic here (since people have spent quite a lot of money on these netBooks). I don't want to turn into Ali Manson (a comtributor (although not seen in a while) in the Psion newsgroups) and simply support everything that Psion say or do but I do understand their position which is essentially that these netBooks were sold by an unauthorised source without Psion's knowledge and into the hands of consumers. These items were 'locked-down' for the original customer and Psion are not willing (or are unable to) unlock them for the end-users who now own them.

[netBookBabe]

Just a point that I don't think has been mentioned - the fact that these netBooks were supplied custom-built for a specific market makes them in my opinion second-hand, regardless of whether anyone actually ever used them or not.

I think the advertising of these machines was extremely unfortunate, and the whole debate to me hinges around that. Had they been accurately described and sold "as is", at an appropriate price, then I think there would have been little problem. As it is, buyers are aggrieved because they no doubt feel they have paid too much, but nevertheless their grievance is totally between them and the seller, and nothing whatsoever to do with Psion.

I have sympathy with the buyers, and I fully support Psion's stance too - I think the blame lies squarely with the seller for their gross misinformation.

Julie

[Nemo20000]

Isn't this just a case of somebody techy being slightly clever and writing a separate OS loader? Load OS into RAM, make 'protected' RAM (containing OS) writeable again, turn interrupts off, copy new OS into *that* RAM, protect it again, and reset. A bit like a linux loader?

Or, if it will happily load the 'original' OS from CF, but not the new OS, there must be a checksum or similar doodah that could probably be faked.

I'd certainly buy one of these if such a scheme could work, but I definitely WILL NOT buy a brand-new netbook - far too expensive compared with almost any laptop. :(

[Stargazer]

I have tried loading a modified version of the One-Ed OS.IMG with a single byte changed (the preset email settings) and also with an extra filler byte at the end and the Netbook booted up both times. This would suggest that the verification is not a straightforward checksum/file length calculation.

I have also tried copying the first megabyte of the One-Ed OS.IMG into the latest from Psion Teklogix and this failed also - however I did get as far as the gray screen that normally appears after the startup logo suggesting that it made some progress in booting.

I have not done anything further since I plan on returning the machine, but I would suspect that every OS.IMG has as part of its initialisation routine, a check on the Netbook ROM. If this is so, then an appropriate modified Teklogix OS should work, but it would require more knowledge that I possess to work this out. My fiddling has been a little on the crude side.

[diem]

Crude maybe but very useful knowledge! We'll get there....

[starfire]

Can some kind soul pls email me the OS.IMG for those Malaysian netbooks? I just did a hard reset on it and now it's dead.....:( :(

[starfire]

TQ to all who came to the rescue of the damsel in distress. My netbook is now alive and kicking.

[netBookBabe]

That was quick - excellent! :D

Julie

[starfire]

I am just wondering if anyone managed to get a copy of the OS.IMG from the vendor who now sells this netbook from Malaysia/Singapore/HK. I have half the mind to call them up just to test their service. If anyone needs me to hassle this people - pls let me know!

[netBookBabe]

starfire

Does that mean you didn't actually get a disk with the OS.IMG file supplied with the machine? If that's the case, that's appalling!

Julie

[MartinMaxwell]

starfire,

Neither did I actually. But I had already gotten a copy of the img.os from stargazer.

I have just returned from a week's trip to Japan and Korea. So our analysis work of the img.os has been down for a while.

Anyhow, interesting to see DoKoMo's huge ads for their new - less battery hungry - phones, of which the most interesting one is running on Symbian OS. First Symbian OS i-mode phone!!!

cheers
MartinMaxwell

[shutay]

Hi everybody,

Signed up to this forum coz I bought one of these Malaysian netBooks yesterday (at Low Yat Plaza, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia)! At just under GBP 200, I was willing to ignore caution altogether and buy one. The guy insisted that there was a warranty on it but I didn't see a warranty card, so I knew that what he was talking about was some limited sort of exchange that they would handle themselves, which would automatically mean that probably there would be no support at all. All there was in the box was the netBook itself, power supply brick and the quick start card. At the time, I didn't know anything about the so-called "Malaysian netBook", but looking it over, I guessed that it was probably an enterprise purchase being offloaded.

But here's the thing: I too have no OS.img file, and as far as I can tell, this is an important file to have if you own a netBook, especially these One-Ed-dot-com netBooks. Is there an FTP site somewhere that I can download it from?!? I don't think my e-mail account could handle a 6MB zip file... I would be most grateful if somebody could help me out in this dept...

Jason

[MartinMaxwell]

Also take note that the Malaysian "netBooks" are often sold without the serial link cable.

[shutay]

Originally posted by MartinMaxwell
Also take note that the Malaysian "netBooks" are often sold without the serial link cable.

Yes indeed, you are right. In fact, they are sold without a whole load of things! PsiWin, serial cable, printed manual, proper box, etc., etc. BTW, is the Psion Series 5mx serial cable compatible with the netBook? The two ports look the same to me. I would try it out myself, except that for reasons that are best left unexplained, I don't have the cable with me to try it until January next year...

Still, when I weighed it all up, for what I want it really is an excellent machine, limitations notwithstanding. The leather is currently "stinking" up the house with it's not unpleasant odour.

Jason

[Calbrit]

5mx Lead works fine with the Netbook. I've sent the OS to a couple of posters here so maybe they can make it available to you also.

Grant

[markdeppe]

shutay: The original UK Netbook also do not come with a printed manual, though if you have a 5mx it is the same. Did it not come with a CD with the manual on it and psiwin and the OS. If not then I am sure someone here could copy you one - if that legal under copyright, I do not know - for a small cost. I would offer but do not have CD burn facility.

[shutay]

Originally posted by Calbrit
5mx Lead works fine with the Netbook. I've sent the OS to a couple of posters here so maybe they can make it available to you also.

Grant

OK, thanks for the confirmation, Calbrit. Yes, I hope I can get hold of that file... the rest I have.

Jason

[shutay]

Originally posted by markdeppe
shutay: The original UK Netbook also do not come with a printed manual, though if you have a 5mx it is the same. Did it not come with a CD with the manual on it and psiwin and the OS. If not then I am sure someone here could copy you one - if that legal under copyright, I do not know - for a small cost. I would offer but do not have CD burn facility.

Hi markdeppe, thanks, but as I alluded to in my reply to Calbrit (that I evidently typed as you were typing your reply!), there is a Psion Series 5mx in the household, so we have the cable and PsiWin already, and the manual is not really absolutely necessary (or at least, not that I can see right now!), not to mention an assortment of CF cards. All I need is that file! Having said that, as far as I can tell, I won't need the file either unless I have to hard reset the machine one day, but of course, who knows when that might be?

To answer your question directly, no, it did not come with a CD. It was plastic wrapped, with a Psion sticker with model no and bar code on the wrap, in a white unlabelled box with a power supply and the Quick Start card. That's all.

Jason

[Abdullah]

Just an idea - has anyone tried to put the latest rom image (from the teklogix site) onto the c drive of the 'malaysian' netbook, along with the update.exe (from the series 7 files) mentioned in the following thread (specifically the second post)

http://www.pdastreet.com/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=1637

Maybe it would work?

[MartinMaxwell]

>>>The leather is currently "stinking" up the house with it's not unpleasant odour.<<<

Come to think of it, several years ago, the *leather* casing was the very reason that I aquired my first netBook..... Before I even knew what it was good for. Before I even knew much about Symbian OS and Psion etc....

[starfire]

Jason,

None of us who bought the netbook in malaysia got any CDs or cables or OS.IMG etc. But the good news is that some of us are in Malaysia like me and Martin who received the OS.IMG from some kind folks like YAN and stargazer. Just yell if u need it.

I heard the cable can be bought for about RM200, but I was lucky to have a 7-series at home which had the cable for synch-ing.

I am surprised u can get it at Low Yat Plaza - was it from some shop or some stall?