Just Mobile no Landline, best option with a netbook GPRS?

[markdeppe]

I use a netbook and mobile phone a bit, but will be moving soon and will not have a landline and so will be relying soley on a mobile. Currently I am with vodafhone though I am out of contract now so can move anywhere, and have been dialling into my clara account using the 02079055151 number. I would really appreciate some guidance and what you feel is the best way forward with regards to GPRS and tarrifs and networks. I have been tempted to just buy a pay in advance sim only 750mins off peak a month for a one off payment of about £35 with O2 from mobileone.com but feel that I might be better with a GPRS deal with a usual pay monthly tarrif of 400 crossnetwor minutes which I will be buying anyway, but do not really fully understand how it works, as in I mainly will use it for email, and not huge files to down load maybe 100k a day receive and 100k send (does GPRS charge for each byte sent and received?) but does it also work for websurfing and does each site you visit count as a download?

Thanks for the help

[netBookBabe]

Mark

I'm a bit concerned as to how you would manage long term without a landline, to be honest. One way or another, cellphones have a habit of working out to be expensive!

I have found GPRS to be quite brilliant and economical for general text communication - e-mail, instant messaging and even EpocChat. However, yes you do pay for "each byte sent and received", so surfing the web can become quite costly if you're not careful. As with everything else, it depends on your individual needs, but for me it's something I will only use when away from home. I can't imagine using it as an every day solution, unless in a temporary circumstance.

Not quite sure how else to help you on this one.

Julie

[_JJ_]

*** Disclosure: I work for Vodafone, but anything posted here is my own opinion and not that of my employer ***

If you've not got a GPRS handset, I'd recommend you go for an Ericsson. No compatibility problems with the Psion and they give very good performance. I still can't get my Panasonic GD87 working with a netBook, but it's fine under Linux - however the download speeds with an Ericsson T39m are about twice as fast!

With the Vodafone GPRS Select price plan, you are charged at 0.23p/kb for all data sent or received. So to download a couple of plain text emails (say 3-4kb each) would cost you about two pence. More details from your local Vodafone store...

You may also be interested in Vodafone Mail (http://www.vodafone.net). This will send you a text message when new emails are recieved, so you don't need to keep connecting to check your messages. You can then dial 242 and have emails read out to you, check and send email from a web (or wap) browser or print emails on a fax machine. POP3 and IMAP4 protocols are supported as well.

And I haven't used a landline for years for voice calls, but I wouldn't like to be without a cable modem :)


JJ

[markdeppe]

Thanks JJ

Thanks for that reply. Have been experimenting this weekend with being solely mobile. I think I will need a lot more free minutes than I thought. Can someone give me an idea as to how much faster GPRS is than dialling into an ISP via a mobile using usual ISP dialup. I get between 700b/s - 900b/s according to the screen at the bottom of Opera while opening web pages.

[MikeMcC]

Can someone give me an idea as to how much faster GPRS is than dialling into an ISP via a mobile using usual ISP dialup. Using GPRS with the PC (which probably gives a better indication of GPRS performance than a Psion would) it seems to me to be faster than a 28.8kbps connection with HSCSD. It is probably in the region of four times the speed of a basic GSM mobile connection when working well. However, I believe that speed can be significantly slower if there is heavy traffic on the network. Last evening (Saturday 9pm) I was struggling to get a connection at all - all the youngsters out using their phones and taking up all of the network capacity.

[markdeppe]

Thanks Mike

that is quite a bit faster, and sounds good. Any recommendations of whose best Orange or Vodafone - my only 2 options for where I live

[MikeMcC]

Orange does give you the back up option of HSCSD at 28.8kbps if you have problems getting a GPRS connection. You don't need to sign up for HSCSD, just enter the string in CP/Modems (though these data calls are more expensive!). Orange is the only network to offer HSCSD but the handset also needs to support the technology.

[markdeppe]

Thanks for that Mike, I think it will be orange as they have a few good deals at present with a T68i which I hear is a good phone. Anyone confirm a T68i working well with a psion and GPRS / HSCSD

[netBookBabe]

Mark

I think a T68i would be an excellent choice for you - Ericsson phones in general seem to be very compatible with Psion devices. My current phone is the Ericsson R520m, and I previously had an R320 - both do a great job. I upgraded in order to have the GPRS facilities of the 520, and it hasn't disappointed. It's a very similar specification to the T68 series - I'm just lacking the colour screen and one or two other bells and whistles, but functionally they are pretty much the same. I also prefer the slightly larger size of the 520, but I guess that's just a personal thing - both are great phones.

I have no knowledge at all on HSCSD, as my network doesn't support it.

Julie

[2naive]

What about a combination of GPRS and satellite for the web. Would this work?

As I understand it, with satellite you download via the satellite and issue instructions via a landline. The bulk of the traffic is download via the satellite, which, up to a point, is unlimited for a single monthly fee. For instance - http://www.netsystem.com/eng/index.htm

Could GPRS be used instead of the landline for the relatively small amount of upload information?

2naive

[_JJ_]

Originally posted by markdeppe
Any recommendations of whose best Orange or Vodafone - my only 2 options for where I live
Obviously a recommendation for Vodafone would be biased because I work for them :), so instead have a look at the latest Oftel survey results: http://www.oftel.gov.uk/publications/research/2002/call_survey/index1202.htm

JJ

[markdeppe]

Thanks JJ. Yup Voda are good but some of their tarrifs are not very competitive, and I will never go near Singlepoint again, so I am with the real Voda and its liitations on tarrifs. For customer feedback if you want to get this 2.5G off the ground then you need to offer it free or way better bundles than at present and get us hooked and feeling we can not live without GPRS.

Will the Nokia 6100 or seimens s55 be out before Christmas on Vodaphone as they could be perfect for use with a Psion - understand if you can't answer that for confidentiality but how about a hint :-)

I wonder if a slapped wrist from the moderators is coming over this verging on off topic thread and psions, hence the cunning slip in of "as they could be perfect for use with a Psion" ;-) you can email or PM me direct JJ

[diem]

nah - its Christmas, I'm feeling charitable ;)

[markdeppe]

Mods: Not sure if this should be a new thread: here goes anyway GPRS saga continued.
Using a Nokia 6610, besides tacky nasty buttons, phone on the whole is good even the software is working a rare thing for an early release nokia.

Thanks MikeMc I am now GPRS on Vodafone half way. Voda help line is closed at present so maybe someone here can help with another part of the puzzle. I can collect mail from my pop accounts but am unable to send any. I imagine this has something to do with the "send message via account" settings. As in I need to have the voda GPRS SMTP and maybe pop and password - mail account set up in the email app -though I imagine just smtp as it will not allow sending with other ISP in that box? Anyone got any suggestions?

Also, can someone explain how the down load and sending works for billing as I am a little confused. I logged into one email account with about 60 old messages on the server and 12 new messages. I then deleted about 5 messages off the server without down loading them (junk mail) and then downloaded the 7 other messages totalling 22k. I sent none and did not surf the web or anything else. I logged off and checked my phone GPRS call register data counter and it said:

"sent = 7142B"
"Received=50835B"

so I imagine sending the command to delete the headers must be the sent figure, seemed a bit high I wonder if it depends on the size of the email being deleted any one confirm this, if this is the case I will delete mail from the server/move rather than copy to the netbook?

I also guess the 50K received when I only down loaded 22k is each header collected from the server of previously copied email to netbook leaving a copy on the server, so a header is maybe about 0.4k and so that must add up the other 28k.

This small session took me about 5 minutes which means that with my contract account outside of my free minutes I would have been charged 5p a minute so 25p for the same session via GMS standard call to landline which does not seem noticeably slower on these small files. I have not yet tried web surfing I will wait till I change my GPRS tariff to find out how much KB an average surf session takes, but it is not looking good as a stand alone option, I would need a sort of £15 a month unlimited use I reckon:-) dreamer I know, but that would match my clara landline deal, and if they really want business this is what it may take.

so discovering this I realise I need to change my GPRS tarriff as downloading 7 small emails and deleting a few small junk emails cost me £1 as on the no subscription it is 2p per Kb, though will switch to a tariff for £7.49 you get 1MB inclusive (not sure if unused Bytes carry over) and over 1MB per month is 0.5p per KB.

Other experiences and thoughts on GPRS appreciate and advice on the above

[_JJ_]

Yep, still here mate :)

Try setting the SMTP server to smtp.vizzavi.co.uk

I don't know what tarrif you're on to be charged 2p/kb. From http://www.vodafone.co.uk, the no-subscription tarrifs are GPRS Starter (0.73p/kb) and GPRS Select (0.23p/kb). Eligibility for GPRS Select depends on what voice tarrif you're on - sorry but I don't know the exact details, possibly Vodafone 200 and above?

So for your example, you sent 7142 bytes and received 50835 bytes, a total of 57977. Divide this by 1024 and you get 56.6kb. At 0.23p/kb (on GPRS Select), you would pay just over 13p, so about half the cost of the equivalent 5 minute GSM data call.

If you're going to change to a GPRS tarrif with inclusive data volume, bear in mind that £7.49 / 1024 = 0.73p/kb, so GPRS Select would still work out cheaper.

[MikeMcC]

Mark,

Also, can someone explain how the down load and sending works for billing as I am a little confused. You connect to the internet, you access your mailbox, you open the mailbox, you retrieve the headers, you take whatever action you want with the messages, you close the mailbox etc. All of these actions involve the transfer of data and you pay for it in your GPRS charges.

If I access Psion Place and view three or four pages, I can easily use up about half a Megabyte. Do that ten times and I've used up my 5 Megabytes for £15 (which is my current package with Orange). It is good for email and probably newsgroups, which I haven't tried, but for the web you will transfer a large amount of data very quickly.

[markdeppe]

<<<JJ Wrote: Yep, still here mate
Try setting the SMTP server to smtp.vizzavi.co.uk
>>>

Excellent, worked first time. Excellent satisfactiion, I wish voda tech support was this good, I emailed tech support the same question and they said they couldn't help and told me to phone 08701-666 777 vodaphone connect my billing company which I have to pay for from both my mobile (Not even included in off peak inclusive minutes, crazy) and landline, only to be put on hold and then told they could not help (they didn't have a clue) saying that all I needed to do was go to the website and register for an email account, I informed them I already had a vizzavi account and had been SMSsed the phone settings and that none of this was what I needed, they assured me that this was all they could offer. So thanks, not like the pot luck with their stores either who are no help unless you get lucky as I did where someone had a least tried email (not succesfully) from a panasonic phone and had a Fax of the printout of settings. Oh the easy mobile lifes for me. It will take more than this for 3G to take off. All is well now thanks and sorry for the little rant / customer feedback ;-) Thanks to you and others here I am once again a happy psioning

<<<I don't know what tarrif you're on to be charged 2p/kb.>>> It was meant to be the starter tarrif I guess it was a typing error in the email they sent me, I hope so, I will check my bill when it comes, as I have now been into the store and got all the correct tarrifs. I am a bit offline at present. I will be moving to a Select tarriff soon thanks for the figures and advice.

Mike Wrote:<<<quote:
If I access Psion Place and view three or four pages, I can easily use up about half a Megabyte. Do that ten times and I've used up my 5 Megabytes for £15 (which is my current package with Orange). It is good for email and probably newsgroups, which I haven't tried, but for the web you will transfer a large amount of data very quickly.>>>

Woe, answer to my question - thanks Mike -, they keep quiet about that, I always wondered how big a web page was - I will be needing a landline, or similar, that is a lot MB for a little web surfing, I can see it working well for email though. Is there any PDA version or maybe a wap type browser version of Psionplace which is really small with no graphics etc, which would be easier and smaller to download. I asssume if I use opera with the Graphics turned off it will be a much smaller download per page - although then it will be hard to read and post. Is there a wap browser for the netbook - I remember hearing there was one for the revo though I have not got round to wap investigations yet (also no PC to look on the CD that came with the revo to see if Wap is on it, I have a suspicion it is), but might be an answer to the large web pages though it must be through the netbook as I could not face the small screen of the phone or the keypad. Anyone any experience of psion and wap with gprs?

[MikeMcC]

Is there any PDA version or maybe a wap type browser version of Psionplace which is really small with no graphics etc, which would be easier and smaller to download. Not that I am aware of because obviously the advertising graphics are a significant source of revenue for them :)

I turn off "Show pictures" in Internet Explorer when using GPRS with my laptop and the main disadvantage is not being able to see "new" posts highlighted by their coloured icon. Otherwise it is alright but I can hover the mouse over an icon to get its description which a Psion cannot do.

Is there a wap browser for the netbook Only the "Psion WAP Browser" which is essentially the one written for the Revo though it runs on other ER5 devices.